Prospect Info: 2014 Draft Discussion II (June 27-28 in Philadelphia)

[AD1066]

Krug is a better defensive player. He plays bigger than he is, he's sturdier on his skates. Almquist's height isn't really the problem, it's the weight and style of play. He's just too weak/soft in the D-zone. At 170lbs soaking wet he'd get rag dolled against hard forechecking teams like the Kings, Bruins, Blues, etc. You can get away with being a forward that small if you have enough skill but not a defenseman.

Lest we not forget, Krug is an excellent skater. Almquist is not.

Fair enough on both counts, but if Almqvist puts on some muscle this summer I see no reason why you wouldn't at least give him a few games in a 7D role / PP specialist.

If nothing comes of it, that's fine. IIRC he was a 7th round draft pick so it's not a huge loss, I just hate the idea of letting players walk away without so much as a look, given that he's shown some offensive prowess at the AHL level.

 

[AD1066]

I think it is all about expectation. Some people think it is easy to do better than Legwand in the draft, even from the 15 spot. Mind you Legwand was selected second overall in his draft class. I personally don't think we are going to find a first-line forward in this draft class at the 15 spot. I would consider a good, productive second-line forward a success, which is why I would love to see McCann on the board at 15. According the combine thread, we interviewed Larkin today FWIW.

Good point. There definitely is talent to be found in that range and later, historically speaking.

Shattenkirk (14)
Karlsson (15)
Tarasenko (16)
Hertl (17)
Teravainen (18)
Kreider (19)
Maatta (22)
Eberle (22)
Pacioretty (22)
Giroux (22)

Now the above players are exceptions to the rule, and many guys drafted higher never pan out, but given our organization's reputation for scouting and development I'm okay with taking a risk at 15. If McCann and Larkin are in fact safe picks to play in a 2nd or 3rd line capacity, you can't complain too much about picking one of them given the number of guys who might never set foot on NHL ice. At the same time, I imagine there's another Mantha-type steal floating around somewhere who will outperform a number of guys drafted in the top 10.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

If McCann and Larkin are in fact safe picks to play in a 2nd or 3rd line capacity, you can't complain too much about picking one of them given the number of guys who might never set foot on NHL ice.

Especially given the Wings' talent level on the wing. I mean, instinctively we want to shop for an offense-first centerman with super upside, but our winger group caters to more of a two-way center approach. They're super talented offensively, but they're all still working on their defensive game, and they've never been known for their defense. So a guy like McCann or Larkin makes a lot of sense. They keep the line working, and they'd pick up more points than you'd think because their wingers are very talented offensively.

 

[SirloinUB]

Fair enough on both counts, but if Almqvist puts on some muscle this summer I see no reason why you wouldn't at least give him a few games in a 7D role / PP specialist.

If nothing comes of it, that's fine. IIRC he was a 7th round draft pick so it's not a huge loss, I just hate the idea of letting players walk away without so much as a look, given that he's shown some offensive prowess at the AHL level.

If he goes to Europe, its not a loss at any level, look or no look in the NHL. We will retain his rights regardless

 

[wingfan]

My first round wish list:
-Haydn Fleury
-Jake Virtanen
-Alex Tuch

If all three are off the board I wouldn't mind seeing us trade maybe swap picks with St Louis, 15 for 21 and 33.

 

[sully6one]

Doing more research and Ritchie seems to be falling a little. I doubt he makes it to 15 but man I would love to get him. Ehlers is around the 12-17 range too. Milano is 15-20 range and he seems like a good pick too. If I were the wings i would go for a home run type pick unless Ritchie falls because he would be what we need. Just a legit power forward.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

I still don't think people understand how hard it is to put on muscle. More so "lean" muscle.

 

[Frk It]

I still don't think people understand how hard it is to put on muscle. More so "lean" muscle.

It varies so much person to person. How easy or hard it is for someone. But in principle, I agree with you.

Also have to figure these guys don't have a "day job". So their life (ideally) is centered around fitness. Imagine how much better shape you could be in if you didn't have time tied up in school/work. That and they have trainers, top notch programs to follow, and a diet plan. They have a lot of resources and time that most people don't have.

But all in all, putting on "good weight" is a lot of work.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

It varies so much person to person. How easy or hard it is for someone. But in principle, I agree with you.

Also have to figure these guys don't have a "day job". So their life (ideally) is centered around fitness. Imagine how much better shape you could be in if you didn't have time tied up in school/work. That and they have trainers, top notch programs to follow, and a diet plan. They have a lot of resources and time that most people don't have.

But all in all, putting on "good weight" is a lot of work.

Oh for sure. Completely agree. However, you have guys saying "Well I put on 20 lbs" in 2-3 months. You look at that, and I'm guessing most of it is bulk. Lean muscle is just extremely hard. Then you have certain genetics, and I've heard Almquist has a hard time putting it on. Then you go further, and certain players have a very hard adjustment period learning to play with the additonal weight. I think Myers had a hard time with his weight gain if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Frk It]

Article on top Russian prospects http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=721117

Anyone heard of this Vladislav Kamenec guy?

Sounds pretty interesting. Man, I'm really just on the Russian forward handwagon.

 

[Bench]

Article on top Russian prospects http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=721117

Anyone heard of this Vladislav Kamenec guy?

Sounds pretty interesting. Man, I'm really just on the Russian forward handwagon.

Long as they are more like Nichushkin than Radulov.

Any Russian you draft has to be willing to pay his dues in the NHL and turn down immediate offers from the KHL, their home country, for more money. That's a special breed of player.

 

[Frk It]

Long as they are more like Nichushkin than Radulov.

Any Russian you draft has to be willing to pay his dues in the NHL and turn down immediate offers from the KHL, their home country, for more money. That's a special breed of player.

I look at Washington with Kuznetsov, Tampa with Kucherov, St Louis with Tarasenko, Dallas with Nichuskin, and I'm just really not that freaked out. You can get great value on these guys. I understand there's risk, but it's worth it to me with the talent you can get at the draft position these guys go at.

 

[NyquistIsMyGod*]

Old trade down, Goldobin is round 2?

 

[Frk It]

Old trade down, Goldobin is round 2?

I would like that. Also seeing Scherbak falling in drafts to the 20s, which I think is foolish.

Would also be interested in looking at late 1st/2nd rd center project like Schmaltz. He's going to college, so we'd have extra time to develop him. Talented kid.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

What if:

what if the Wings trade down, get a 2nd, and draft this guy with their first:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=85870281

Marcus Pettersson D
Birthyear: 1996-05-08
Age: 17
Birthplace: Skellefteå, Sweden
Position: D
Shoots: L
Height: 191 cm / 6'3"
Weight: 73 kg / 161 lbs

6'4 D-man. Recently converted center in the mold of Andrei Markov. Very good skater, good frame, good offensive skill. Left hand shot.

He only weighs 160 lbs right now. Can he put on the size? Can he properly adapt to the defensive position? Also, he's not physical by any means.

Praise:

Marcus is just a natural at offense, hockey sense, skating, passing, shot, all the skills. However, it is his ability to make quick decisions in the moment that sets him apart from the pack.

His size, skating and positioning along with an active stick and a long reach make a case for his defensive game (which is still a work in progress) now. Add high level passing skills and an ability to join the rush and Marcus starts to get interesting as a defenseman on the way up.

He is a very strong skater, especially for his height. He is quick both going forward and backward; has excellent agility and very solid pivots and edgework. He has decent balance given the lankiness (its still below average, but not as much as you’d expect), this will get a lot better as he adds muscle and core strength.

He can lead the rush or join as a trailer, and has the skating to make up for any bad pinches or rushes he might make. Pettersson’s stickhandling and poise are very good, and he has the vision and passing ability to start the transition game or to quarterback the powerplay. Petterson also has a very good wrist shot, and quick release, as well as hard slap-shot and one-timer ability. His hockey sense in the offensive zone is well above average, and he finds and exploits openings in the opposing team’s defensive game.

I know he's not a center. But how opposed would you be to drafting Pettersson? Personally, I think he's an extremely intriguing prospect. The Wings have Sproul on the right, but they don't have anybody with high offensive potential on LD after Almquist's inevitable departure. I think this would also be the pick that would take Detroit's prospect D group from "very good" to "beast mode". You've got DeKeyser, Ouellet, Marchenko, and Backman to keep things safe. and then you can have Sproul and Pettersson on the PP and on the rush to make things happen.

Plus, I think this is one of those project picks that can make you look like a genius years later when the kid finally fills out and adapts. He could be a top pairing PP quarterback.

 

[Frk It]

What if:

what if the Wings trade down, get a 2nd, and draft this guy with their first:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=85870281

Marcus Pettersson D
Birthyear: 1996-05-08
Age: 17
Birthplace: Skellefteå, Sweden
Position: D
Shoots: L
Height: 191 cm / 6'3"
Weight: 73 kg / 161 lbs

6'4 D-man. Recently converted center in the mold of Andrei Markov. Very good skater, good frame, good offensive skill. Left hand shot.

He only weighs 160 lbs right now. Can he put on the size? Can he properly adapt to the defensive position? Also, he's not physical by any means.

Praise:









I know he's not a center. But how opposed would you be to drafting Pettersson? Personally, I think he's an extremely intriguing prospect. The Wings have Sproul on the right, but they don't have anybody with high offensive potential on LD after Almquist's inevitable departure. I think this would also be the pick that would take Detroit's prospect D group from "very good" to "beast mode". You've got DeKeyser, Ouellet, Marchenko, and Backman to keep things safe. and then you can have Sproul and Pettersson on the PP and on the rush to make things happen.

Plus, I think this is one of those project picks that can make you look like a genius years later when the kid finally fills out and adapts. He could be a top pairing PP quarterback.

I would much rather draft Honkka or Mckeown.

Seems like that would be a reach.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I would much rather draft Honkka or Mckeown.

Seems like that would be a reach.

Right, but those guys are RD. This guy is a LD, which I think lacks offensive talent in our group. He fills more of a need than the other guys do. You get Sproul into the league, and suddenly having a RH RD isn't the big need. Especially with Sproul and Marchenko both providing those RH breakout passes and pinches.

I guess if you're sold on Backman or DeKeyser finding their offensive games, it's not such a need. But even so, neither of those guys is a PP QB type.

 

[RedWingzz]

Doing more research and Ritchie seems to be falling a little. I doubt he makes it to 15 but man I would love to get him. Ehlers is around the 12-17 range too. Milano is 15-20 range and he seems like a good pick too. If I were the wings i would go for a home run type pick unless Ritchie falls because he would be what we need. Just a legit power forward.

Ehlers is going in the top 10, I can pretty much guarantee this. Also, Ritchie will be gone before we pick. If Ritchie is available at 14, Dallas will take him, they also have his brother in their system. I still see him going around 10/11 though.

Sonny Milano looks good, so I wouldn't mind grabbing him. Dylan Larkin could work. McCann is solid too, but looks more like a 3rd line Center down the road than a scorer. Of course, lots can change with this.

I still like Ho-Sang, he is highly, highly skilled, but there are red flags there with his attitude and 2-way play. We have had sucees with picking skill recently (Jurco/Mantha/Tatar) so I wouldn't mind Ho-Sang, but I jut don't see us taking him at 15. He somewhat reminds me of Athanasiou, so if he tails off to the 2nd round or later, than I would love to grab him. Athanasiou is looking like he will turn out alright.

 

[Frk It]

Right, but those guys are RD. This guy is a LD, which I think lacks offensive talent in our group. He fills more of a need than the other guys do. You get Sproul into the league, and suddenly having a RH RD isn't the big need. Especially with Sproul and Marchenko both providing those RH breakout passes and pinches.

I guess if you're sold on Backman or DeKeyser finding their offensive games, it's not such a need. But even so, neither of those guys is a PP QB type.

I strongly disagree.

The need for a Right Handed defenseman is far greater than the need for specifically a offensive defenseman for the left side.

We have 3 RH Defenseman in our entire organization, and it's doubtful they all make the Wings. None of the 3 are even that sure of a thing.

Babcock doesn't want one LH-RH pairings. He wants all of his pairings to be LH-RH. He talks about how teams that have that have a distinct advantage on us. He sets his team up that way in the Olympics.

Regardless. Honkka is a much a better offensive defenseman than Petersson. LD, RD, LH, or RH. Honkka and Sproul would give us 2 RH QB's that could PP each unit.

Mckeown is a big two-way defenseman that's right handed. He draws comparisons to Brent Seabrook.

Petersson is way too much of a project for the first round, and wouldn't make sense to take him over either of those guys IMO.

 

[Frk It]

Want a tall, mobile, Swedish defenseman with some offensive upside for the LD spot?

I think he's got borderline dynamic offensive ability from the blue line in. That'll be a real, real plus in his game

Blashill on Mattias Backman - 5/28/14

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Want a tall, mobile, Swedish defenseman with some offensive upside for the LD spot?



Blashill on Mattias Backman - 5/28/14

I believe that... at the AHL level. I love Backman's game, but I don't see him as anything more than a 25-30 point defenseman at the NHL level. This team needs a high potential LD prospect. With Almquist out the door, the whole group looks a little iffy offensively. Sproul can bring it, but that's about all.

DeKeyser-up in the air
Backman-up in the air
Ouellet-questionable offensively
Marchenko-questionable offensively
Jensen-questionable offensively

Those are all good "two-way" guys—they move the puck to the forwards and their job on that end is mostly done. Asking Backman and DeKeyser to find offense when they haven't been that productive to this point might be asking too much. I'm not sure it's in their games.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Babcock doesn't want one LH-RH pairings. He wants all of his pairings to be LH-RH. He talks about how teams that have that have a distinct advantage on us. He sets his team up that way in the Olympics

Personally, I think Babcock exaggerates the importance of this. It's important to have some right hand shots; not having right hand shots is a real problem. But putting LH players together on a team with adequate amounts of RH shots is just fine. It won't kill you, and most teams can't take advantage of it when it's just one line. Honestly, I think Babcock is using this as a distraction from the fact that several of the players on the Wings D are just not very good. This makes for an easy way for him to say they need to be traded. Nobody has to come out and mention how bad they are. It's a friendly thing; Kindl goes out the door not because he sucks, but because there are too many LH defensemen.

I think it's no coincidence that Babcock didn't start harping on handedness to the media until the Wings started sucking. They've always had just a few RH shots, and it never meant anything to him until he had a rhetorical use for it. By his logic, the 2007-2008 Wings cup team must have truly been one for the ages because they had so few RH shots. Not only did they win the cup, they won the cup with one hand tied behind their back!

 

[Frk It]

I believe that... at the AHL level. I love Backman's game, but I don't see him as anything more than a 25-30 point defenseman at the NHL level. This team needs a high potential LD prospect. With Almquist out the door, the whole group looks a little iffy offensively. Sproul can bring it, but that's about all.

DeKeyser-up in the air
Backman-up in the air
Ouellet-questionable offensively
Marchenko-questionable offensively
Jensen-questionable offensively

Those are all good "two-way" guys—they move the puck to the forwards and their job on that end is mostly done. Asking Backman and DeKeyser to find offense when they haven't been that productive to this point might be asking too much. I'm not sure it's in their games.

Backman in his draft year - 20 pts 27 games in the SHL
Petersson in his draft year - 18 pts in 38 games in the SHL

I don't see where this guy has this high end offensive d men potential. Every scouting report other than the one you cited says he projects as a two way defenseman and needs a bunch of work. Sounds like he'd be a good idea for a 3rd or 4th rounder.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Personally, I think Babcock exaggerates the importance of this. It's important to have some right hand shots; not having right hand shots is a real problem. But putting LH players together on a team with adequate amounts of RH shots is just fine. It won't kill you, and most teams can't take advantage of it when it's just one line. Honestly, I think Babcock is using this as a distraction from the fact that several of the players on the Wings D are just not very good. This makes for an easy way for him to say they need to be traded. Nobody has to come out and mention how bad they are. It's a friendly thing; Kindl goes out the door not because he sucks, but because there are too many LH defensemen.

I think it's no coincidence that Babcock didn't start harping on handedness to the media until the Wings started sucking. They've always had just a few RH shots, and it never meant anything to him until he had a rhetorical use for it. By his logic, the 2007-2008 Wings cup team must have truly been one for the ages because they had so few RH shots. Not only did they win the cup, they won the cup with one hand tied behind their back!

we aren't going to have a team like 07-08 red wings so it doesn't matter.

that team was so much more skilled that it didn't matter. ain't gonna happen for a while. game has also changed a bit. red wings lack of RH D has been exposed quite a few times since that run.

i'm sure he put up LD-RD pairings at the olympics to use a secret message that kindl should be sent to the moon.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

we aren't going to have a team like 07-08 red wings so it doesn't matter.

that team was so much more skilled that it didn't matter. ain't gonna happen for a while. game has also changed a bit. red wings lack of RH D has been exposed quite a few times since that run.

i'm sure he put up LD-RD pairings at the olympics to use a secret message that kindl should be sent to the moon.

Has the lack of RD been exposed?

Or has the lack of quality been exposed? It's funny how the solution to those two problems ends up about the same.