Prospect Info: 2014 Adirondack Phantoms (AHL), ECHL, NCAA, Juniors, International, etc. part IV

[Curufinwe]

I'm getting really excited for them to move to the Lehigh Valley...

And every home game will be on TV for me so I won't need to watch streams that are being recorded by potatoes.

On what station?

 

[Appleyard]

I don't see much similarity between Coburn and Hagg. I never saw Coburn before he joined the Flyers but his scouting reports in junior said that his offensive skills were limited. He was never projected to be more than a stay at home guy who could really skate. Hagg has a much better two way game, much more poised with the puck. I could see Hagg becoming similar to Timonen, but bigger.

It is more the level of player I think.

Hägg I imagine will most likely be a very solid NHLer... but one who leaves you wanting more early in his career (before, as with Coburn, people accepted his ceiling was unreachable) due to his awesome skillset and tools.

But Hägg does have more offensive ceiling, his shot is definitely better and he handles a puck better.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Hagg needs to carve out a role. That's why I think he's a few years away. He's good at a lot of things. He has some tools to work with. He just needs to find a niche. It should come with experience. His floor is relatively high since he's a big guy that can really skate. Just not sure he'll reach his peak. Personally, I see him settling in more as a defensive guy, but there is potential for more. He needs games to figure it out.

 

[Appleyard]

If Hagg becomes Coburn than that's great value for a second round pick.

Yep... with an early 2nd if they play a few hundred NHL games that is a great pick!

When I did the 'odds' the other year (looking at 1990-2004 drafts) an early 2nd rounder had less than 30% chance of playing 200 NHL games.

For the position Hägg was drafted in:

41-45: 200 GP: 28%, 400 GP: 22.7%, 700 GP: 12%, All-Star: 4%

For Ghost:

76-80: 200 GP: 17.3%, 400 GP: 12%, 700 GP: 4%, All-Star: 4%

Those two picks are very likely going to be comparatively great whatever!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't see much similarity between Coburn and Hagg. I never saw Coburn before he joined the Flyers but his scouting reports in junior said that his offensive skills were limited. He was never projected to be more than a stay at home guy who could really skate. Hagg has a much better two way game, much more poised with the puck. I could see Hagg becoming similar to Timonen, but bigger.

I'm pretty sure Coburn was drafted as a guy with untapped potential offensively. He put up pretty good numbers offensively in juniors & even did so in his first couple of years before completely translating to a defensive defensemen.

 

[Striiker]

On what station?

Service Electric

 

[Appleyard]

Anyone got a stream? The one posted earlier just went offline.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I don't see much similarity between Coburn and Hagg. I never saw Coburn before he joined the Flyers but his scouting reports in junior said that his offensive skills were limited. He was never projected to be more than a stay at home guy who could really skate. Hagg has a much better two way game, much more poised with the puck. I could see Hagg becoming similar to Timonen, but bigger.

Coburn did have a perceived offensive upside. That's why he went so high. He had a near 40 point season as a 22 year old in the NHL. He just never took the next step. He even regressed you could say.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Anyone got a stream? The one posted earlier just went offline.

Thought it was just me

 

[Striiker]

Anyone got a stream? The one posted earlier just went offline.

I'm looking... no luck yet.

 

[Random Forest]

I don't see much similarity between Coburn and Hagg. I never saw Coburn before he joined the Flyers but his scouting reports in junior said that his offensive skills were limited. He was never projected to be more than a stay at home guy who could really skate. Hagg has a much better two way game, much more poised with the puck. I could see Hagg becoming similar to Timonen, but bigger.

As Appleyard already said, it's not so much their skill sets that are similar; it's that they both appear to lack that pretty bow that ties all their skills together.

That "bow" is what elevates a player's ceiling, imo. Without the ability to put everything together in a nice package, you end up with a player who can rely on his skills only so far. But such a player can't be an anchor of a D-corps which is why we've struggled when we've relied too heavily on Coburn.

 

[Jack Straw]

I'm pretty sure Coburn was drafted as a guy with untapped potential offensively. He put up pretty good numbers offensively in juniors & even did so in his first couple of years before completely translating to a defensive defensemen.

Well, this was HF said about him:

Talent Analysis

Coburn is a mostly stay at home defenseman who skates very well and makes a good outlet pass. Though not a bruiser, he uses his size to his advantage.

Future

Coburn is still loaded with all the right raw materials and his potential remains extremely high. But neither offensively gifted nor a physical force, Coburn’s career hinges on him being very solidly defensively, and that’s where he needs to improve.

Personally I've never seen any real offensive instincts from Coburn. He makes a decent pass, and when he's set up he can crank a hard shot, but he doesn't doesn't create much of anything offensively.

I think that analysis was spot on, he has become elite defensively but not much more than that.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Coburn did have a perceived offensive upside. That's why he went so high. He had a near 40 point season as a 22 year old in the NHL. He just never took the next step. He even regressed you could say.

To be fair to Coburn that was when he was getting PP time. If put in that situation now I could still see him putting up 30+ points again.

Edit: Just checked, he had 20 ES pts that season and 15 PP points. This season he had 16 ES pts, second only to Streit on the team who was 10th in the league among d-men in that category.

 

[Jack Straw]

As Appleyard already said, it's not so much their skill sets that are similar; it's that they both appear to lack that pretty bow that ties all their skills together.

That "bow" is what elevates a player's ceiling, imo. Without the ability to put everything together in a nice package, you end up with a player who can rely on his skills only so far. But such a player can't be an anchor of a D-corps which is why we've struggled when we've relied too heavily on Coburn.

Well, it's hard to tell until we actually see them in the NHL. Most of the scouting reports I've seen on Hagg mention his hockey IQ. As I mentioned, I think Hagg's ceiling is a bigger Timonen. I'd say his floor might be a MacDonald type, but maybe more physical. A solid two-way guy.

 

[FLYguy3911]

To be fair to Coburn that was when he was getting PP time. If put in that situation now I could still see him putting up 30+ points.

Yeah, but it was more than that. He used to lug the puck the into the offensive zone a bunch. He was a lot more confident with the puck. He's settled into a stay at home role now. Can't say it was the worst move for his career or for the team, but it makes you wonder what he could have been with even the slightest of offensive game.

 

[Striiker]

The stream works again, refresh the page.

In case you closed the tab: http://goatd.net/70383/watch-bridgeport-sound-tigers-vs-adirondack-phantoms

 

[MrMajestyk]

Stream is working again.

 

[Striiker]

They also scored while the stream was down. 2-0 ADK. Whitmore with assists from Alt and Cousins

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Well, this was HF said about him:

Talent Analysis

Coburn is a mostly stay at home defenseman who skates very well and makes a good outlet pass. Though not a bruiser, he uses his size to his advantage.

Future

Coburn is still loaded with all the right raw materials and his potential remains extremely high. But neither offensively gifted nor a physical force, Coburn’s career hinges on him being very solidly defensively, and that’s where he needs to improve.

Personally I've never seen any real offensive instincts from Coburn. He makes a decent pass, and when he's set up he can crank a hard shot, but he doesn't doesn't create much of anything offensively.

I think that analysis was spot on, he has become elite defensively but not much more than that.

WHL
01-02: 68GP 4G 33A 37P
02-03: 53GP 3G 16A 19P
03-04: 55GP 10G 20A 30P
04-05: 60GP 12G 32A 44P

WJC's U20
04: 6GP 2G 1A 3P
05: 6GP 0G 2A 2P

NHL
07-08: 78GP 9G 27A 36P
08-09: 80GP 7G 21A 28P

First two years in the NHL as a full timer.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Whitmore scored a pp goal. Cousins and Alt with the assists.

Another pp coming up. The Holmstrom on Holmstrom hit was great.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost looking sick on this PP.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Whitmore scored a pp goal. Cousins and Alt with the assists.

Another pp coming up. The Holmstrom on Holmstrom hit was great.

25 points on the year now in his first full pro season, not bad for a guy who's more known for defense.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Alt has looked impressive.

Also Hagg needs to keep his feet moving.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

25 points on the year now in his first full pro season, not bad for a guy who's more know for defense.

Indeed but I imagine most of those are pp points, something he won't be getting at the next level. I can't check though since the AHL doesn't like to keep track of even the more basic stats.

PK coming up, Hagg called for a hook.

 

[Jack Straw]

WHL
01-02: 68GP 4G 33A 37P
02-03: 53GP 3G 16A 19P
03-04: 55GP 10G 20A 30P
04-05: 60GP 12G 32A 44P

WJC's U20
04: 6GP 2G 1A 3P
05: 6GP 0G 2A 2P

NHL
07-08: 78GP 9G 27A 36P
08-09: 80GP 7G 21A 28P

First two years in the NHL as a full timer.

I'm talking about the way he plays. Have you ever seen him control the pace of play (with the puck) like Timonen or Streit? Have you ever seen him walk the blue line to find a shooting lane? Offensively his most effective play has always (with the Flyers anyway) been to skate like the wind to the red line and dump the puck in. Like I said, he can shoot the puck when he gets a nice feed and he's shown some ability to jump up in the offensive zone and get involved. But he's never shown any creativity offensively. He's never shown the ability to really generate any offense on his own.

And just to be clear. I'm a Coburn fan. He should have gotten the Ashbee this year. But he is what he is and always has been, at least with the Flyers.