Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building / Proposal Thread Part XII

[pld459666]

Chiasson is someone I really want for this team now and moving forward. Perfect bottom 6 guy.

Was talking about trying to acquire Chiasson before Dallas traded him.

Just not sure why Ottawa would move a 24 year old kid still getting comfortable in his own massive 6'4" frame.

And, if Ottawa was willing to move him, I would expect Duclair to be part of the package headed north.

If I'm Ottawa, I want nothing less than Duke and at least a 2nd.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I would much rather trade a 3rd for Santorelli than Miller for Vermette.

But I would rather trade a 2nd + prospect (Lindberg/McIlrath tier) or another 2nd or even a conditional 2016 first/second (based on reading conf finals) for Vermette.

 

[pld459666]

I'd love to see the evidence on how Santorelli is not near as good as Vermette.

One is a top line center and has been for the team he's played for the last 3 years.

One has a 60+ point season, a 50+ point season multiple 40+ point seasons.

One has 3 20+ goal seasons.

One wins more FO's than he loses every year and is at 55.2% this year already taking over 1000 draws. 56.4% last season, 57.4 in 2012-13

The other player is Mike Santorelli

 

[silverfish]

I'd love to see the evidence on how Santorelli is not near as good as Vermette.

This is over the past month of games. All on-ice situations. Percentile rankings also include defensemen...

If you're more of a traditional stats guy...

Santorelli: 48 games, 9 goals, 17 assists, 26 points, +6, 62/133 faceoffs.

Vermette: 46 games, 11 goals, 19 assists, 30 points, -15, 556/1007 faceoffs.

Toronto has scored 142 goals this season and has a -8 differential.

Arizona has scored 105 goals this season and has a -51 differential.

I'd like to see an argument as to why Santorelli is as good as Vermette.

The only thing Santorelli has over Vermette at this point is the fact that he'll cost far less to obtain.

 

[Leetch3]

that 133 faceoffs concerns me on Santorelli...if he's really that good on faceoffs why does he take so few...i know he's been playing wing but i worry that its too small a sample size to say he's definitely going to fix our need compared to a guy like boyd gordon that has taken over 800 this year

 

[Matt4776]

that 133 faceoffs concerns me on Santorelli...if he's really that good on faceoffs why does he take so few...i know he's been playing wing but i worry that its too small a sample size to say he's definitely going to fix our need compared to a guy like boyd gordon that has taken over 800 this year

62/133= 46.6%. That's not good on faceoffs.

 

[TheTakedown]

GWOW- Not sure I like the asset management. When it matters, Staal and McD should take up just south of 50 minutes of the time we have a left defensemen on the ice. I just don't see the need for giving up Hagelin to get another left defensemen...

I personally think Hunwick is very sufficienti in his role

 

[Leetch3]

62/133= 46.6%. That's not good on faceoffs.

he's like 60% in the defensive zone...and if he's not good on faceoffs then he has zero value to us

 

[silverfish]

Good article on the Canadian Dollar and the cap:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/canadian-dollar-crash-should-have-nhl-teams-in-panic--trending-topics-143555287.html

A lot of projections from economists, even at the time, were that the NHL was being overly optimistic with that 88 cents valuation. And the Canadian dollar definitively did not “stay where it [was then].†It has, in fact, crashed. Earlier this week, the Bank of Canada cut interest rates, and, well, here's the result. It crashed from a little less than 83 cents to the U.S. dollar — already well below the NHL's hopeful projections — to a little more than 81 cents. This may not seem like a huge decline, but when you're raking in millions and millions of dollars in revenues every month in Canadian dollars, the deficit adds up quickly. That's a lot of money lost because the league does business in U.S. dollars even as close to a quarter of the league collects money in Canadian ones.

 

[Doctyl]

62/133= 46.6%. That's not good on faceoffs.

That's a very small sample size

 

[offdacrossbar]

vermette and a healthy roster makes us a stanley cup favorite. no doubt.

i hate the idea of jt miller for a rental vermette. not something slats will do.

does maloney ask for jt miller in a deal ? u betcha. he has to.

do we counter with jesper fast or mcilrath and a 2nd. or both those guys and no pick.

u betcha.

 

[Gardner McKay]

62/133= 46.6%. That's not good on faceoffs.

IIRC he was above 50% the previous 2 years.

 

[TheTakedown]

Good article on the Canadian Dollar and the cap:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/canadian-dollar-crash-should-have-nhl-teams-in-panic--trending-topics-143555287.html

we have to pray that the PA exercises the 5% escalator then... If the cap does not go up at all there are several contending teams that are absolutely ****ed.

Does the other half of the TV money go into next years cap? I think that's a 2M bump regardless if I am not mistaken.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Ive gone back and forth on Vermette. He will be one of the more expensive assets to acquire at the deadline. Realistically though this team is playing some of the best hockey I have ever seen them play. The defense has been great. After a horrible start and so many people here pushed the panic button on Lundqvist, he has gotten his numbers back to Lundqvistesque numbers with a 2.25 GAA and a .921 sv%. Our offense has been outstanding as well. Top 5 in the league in both goals per game and goals against per game. Sans a few 5-3 PP's our power play has been working better than in years past.

The team as it stands right now is a cup contending team. Many of you don't understand how this works. Yeah I get it that you don't want to give up assets to get rentals but we won't be contenders forever. There will come a time where we go through a rebuild process. Lundqvist has maybe 3 more elite years left. Our window is now. Trading both 2nds + a 3rd + a prospect to get Vermette and Sekera makes us the team to beat in the NHL by a mile. Even the almighty LA kings would get demolished by us.

Outside of Duclair, Buchnevich, Skjei and Sheshkytorin (sp?) I am open to trading any other players for rentals. After thinking about it last night, that includes JT Miller/Jesper Fast. It is great to see JT finally playing well and I will admit I was very wrong about him. Still. Getting Vermette to shore up our FO % is a big deal. I don't care what the BS fancy stats say about the importance of face-offs. They become more and more important as the season progresses and the games get tighter. They are even more important in the playoffs when the games get tighter and possession is harder to come by.

 

[Raspewtin]

that 133 faceoffs concerns me on Santorelli...if he's really that good on faceoffs why does he take so few...i know he's been playing wing but i worry that its too small a sample size to say he's definitely going to fix our need compared to a guy like boyd gordon that has taken over 800 this year

Because he plays wing.

He was 51% his last year when he took faceoffs full time.

 

[Off Sides]

All face-offs are not of equal importance

http://faceoffs.net/team/NYR

This site gives better stats then just their overall percentages.

For the most part it still makes them a poor face-off team but if you click on the players, you can see many of the percentages fall off in the neutral zone face-off department, as a team that is mostly because of Hayes, yet Stepan also sees quite a dip in % there.

Moore carries face-offs for the team in the D-zone and on the PK for them most part and that is why they are actually slightly above league average there.

If they want to really significantly improve to near or above league average it would take a player who can win them in the offensive zone and on the PP, which also means not starting Stepan on those particular face-offs. Stepan plays with ? So either that line does not start there or they use a different center just for the draw.

My concern would be more along the lines of Moore not being available to take the D-zone or PK ones as well as him not having very good nights against certain players in that situation.

 

[silverfish]

The team as it stands right now is a cup contending team. Many of you don't understand how this works. Yeah I get it that you don't want to give up assets to get rentals but we won't be contenders forever. There will come a time where we go through a rebuild process. Lundqvist has maybe 3 more elite years left. Our window is now. Trading both 2nds + a 3rd + a prospect to get Vermette and Sekera makes us the team to beat in the NHL by a mile. Even the almighty LA kings would get demolished by us.

PREACH!

This is my favorite paragraph in the spec thread in a long, long time.

The window for the Rangers is EVERY season Lundqvist is playing to an elite level. If that's 3 more years, or 5 more years, I'd trade every piece that isn't core or a top potential prospect for a move that makes the Rangers better in June.

 

[Mac n Gs]

All face-offs are not of equal importance

http://faceoffs.net/team/NYR

This site gives better stats then just their overall percentages.

For the most part it still makes them a poor face-off team but if you click on the players, you can see many of the percentages fall off in the neutral zone face-off department, as a team that is mostly because of Hayes, yet Stepan also sees quite a dip in % there.

Moore carries face-offs for the team in the D-zone and on the PK for them most part and that is why they are actually slightly above league average there.

If they want to really significantly improve to near or above league average it would take a player who can win them in the offensive zone and on the PP, which also means not starting Stepan on those particular face-offs. Stepan plays with ? So either that line does not start there or they use a different center just for the draw.

My concern would be more along the lines of Moore not being available to take the D-zone or PK ones as well as him not having very good nights against certain players in that situation.

Really good post. I don't think Step takes draws on the power play. Brassard takes them for the first unit and Miller takes them for the second unit. I'm not sure who would replace his 5v5 offensive zone faceoffs though

 

[Raspewtin]

he's like 60% in the defensive zone...and if he's not good on faceoffs then he has zero value to us

He has plenty value outside of something arbitrary like faceoffs.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'd like to see an argument as to why Santorelli is as good as Vermette.

The only thing Santorelli has over Vermette at this point is the fact that he'll cost far less to obtain.

For this year:

AV GF/60 = 2.05 (7th best among Coyotes regular 12 forwards)

MS GF/60 = 2.72 (4th best among Leafs regular forwards)

AV GA/60 = 3.21 (worst among Coyotes regular forwards, despite getting only 31% d-zone starts)

MS GA/60 = 2.53 (5th best among Leafs regular forwards, only 24% OZone starts, 34% DZone starts)

AV GF% = 38.9%

MS GF% = 51.8%

AV CF% = 48.5% (7th best among Coyotes forwards)

MS CF% = 46.7% (4th best among Leafs forwards)

AV ES P/60 = 1.66

MS ES P/60 = 1.69

 

[silverfish]

For this year:

AV GF/60 = 2.05 (7th best among Coyotes regular 12 forwards)

MS GF/60 = 2.72 (4th best among Leafs regular forwards)

AV GA/60 = 3.21 (worst among Coyotes regular forwards, despite getting only 31% d-zone starts)

MS GA/60 = 2.53 (5th best among Leafs regular forwards, only 24% OZone starts, 34% DZone starts)

AV GF% = 38.9%

MS GF% = 51.8%

AV CF% = 48.5% (7th best among Coyotes forwards)

MS CF% = 46.7% (4th best among Leafs forwards)

AV ES P/60 = 1.66

MS ES P/60 = 1.69

Okay, do you think this might have anything to do with the teams they play on? That's why I posted total goals and differential in my original post.

Hell, Vermette LEADS the Coyotes in points this year.

Quality of teammates? Quality of competition?

You recite all these #fancystats but leave out a lot of important factors.

 

[Gardner McKay]

He has plenty value outside of something arbitrary like faceoffs.

Faceoffs are not arbitrary. Just because we are one of the top teams in the NHL doesn't mean we should ignore them. I admit I don't know much about advanced stats but I swear I can recall reading that Stepan doesn't have very good advanced stats despite being a borderline elite defensive forward and PPG production. If we can ignore facoffs because we are successful in spite of being so awful at them then we should ignore advanced stats like corsi because players can be borderline elite with not great advanced stats. (I realized that if I misremembered and Stepan has great advanced stats that my whole argument goes out the window).

I know you don't agree with what I said in the bottom. That is my point. There is a difference between being successful because of something and being successful in spite of something. We are successful despite sucking at face-offs. Therefore a great face-off guy should be our #1 priority at the trade deadline.

 

[pld459666]

Ive gone back and forth on Vermette. He will be one of the more expensive assets to acquire at the deadline. Realistically though this team is playing some of the best hockey I have ever seen them play. The defense has been great. After a horrible start and so many people here pushed the panic button on Lundqvist, he has gotten his numbers back to Lundqvistesque numbers with a 2.25 GAA and a .921 sv%. Our offense has been outstanding as well. Top 5 in the league in both goals per game and goals against per game. Sans a few 5-3 PP's our power play has been working better than in years past.

The team as it stands right now is a cup contending team. Many of you don't understand how this works. Yeah I get it that you don't want to give up assets to get rentals but we won't be contenders forever. There will come a time where we go through a rebuild process. Lundqvist has maybe 3 more elite years left. Our window is now. Trading both 2nds + a 3rd + a prospect to get Vermette and Sekera makes us the team to beat in the NHL by a mile. Even the almighty LA kings would get demolished by us.

Outside of Duclair, Buchnevich, Skjei and Sheshkytorin (sp?) I am open to trading any other players for rentals. After thinking about it last night, that includes JT Miller/Jesper Fast. It is great to see JT finally playing well and I will admit I was very wrong about him. Still. Getting Vermette to shore up our FO % is a big deal. I don't care what the BS fancy stats say about the importance of face-offs. They become more and more important as the season progresses and the games get tighter. They are even more important in the playoffs when the games get tighter and possession is harder to come by.

Personally I think the team parts with a Buchnevich before they part with Miller.

Does Butch and a 2nd gets it done? Probably.

I think alot will depend on how the team plays for the next 5 weeks, the position we find ourselves a week before the deadline and the then climate for Vermette.

 

[silverfish]

Personally I think the team parts with a Buchnevich before they part with Miller.

Does Butch and a 2nd gets it done? Probably.

I think alot will depend on how the team plays for the next 5 weeks, the position we find ourselves a week before the deadline and the then climate for Vermette.

If the Rangers trade Buchnevich before they trade Miller I will ****ing riot.

 

[Off Sides]

PREACH!

This is my favorite paragraph in the spec thread in a long, long time.

The window for the Rangers is EVERY season Lundqvist is playing to an elite level. If that's 3 more years, or 5 more years, I'd trade every piece that isn't core or a top potential prospect for a move that makes the Rangers better in June.

While I agree their chances at a cup improve by importing a good player or two, ones that fit both roster construction and cap, chances of the best roster winning the cup are probably still pretty low.

It's a risky way to go about it, in one breathe saying their window is so and so years, and in the next saying if they move young contributors it does not at least partially close that window in the years that player would be able to contribute.

I usually would vote for the safer approach that may allow the chances over many year to be as high as possible versus having a slightly better chance in any one year.

Injury, bad match-ups, and just weird stuff (variance) happens in the playoffs all to often to say with this or that particular roster they would be dominate over some of the other better rosters league wide.