Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building Part XVIV: Everything is Happening!

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Lindberg Cheese

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Apr 28, 2013
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I'm not liking the trade Hagelin and Klein talk. I understand we are up against the limit but I'd rather buy out Boyle and let MSL walk before we talk about dumping Hags and Klein. All I know is that not having cap geek is crippling my GM abilities.
 

Fugazy

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Jun 1, 2014
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Rather try and move Boyle than let Hagelin walk. No way we trade Klein, possibly best bargain on the team.

It definitely wouldn't be wise to part ways with Klein given the value he provides the team based on his favorable contract terms.
 

BobMarleyNYR

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Klein would only be traded for players we couldn't get for him. His worth > his value 10x. He's prototypical of what seasoned GMs covet for contending teams--a guy who brings more than his salary dictates...

Unless he forgets how to play, trading Klein during his contract would be a strong statement that this team is no longer in win-now mode.
 

Ola

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Klein would only be traded for players we couldn't get for him. His worth > his value 10x. He's prototypical of what seasoned GMs covet for contending teams--a guy who brings more than his salary dictates...

Unless he forgets how to play, trading Klein during his contract would be a strong statement that this team is no longer in win-now mode.

So what we do with McIlrath?
 

Kovalev27

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Jun 22, 2004
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When/if dylan proves he can push someone off the roster we can worry about it.

He hasn't yet

You have to cut loose the 2 tampa guys unfortunately. And I like dan Boyle. But you aren't losing a core guy over those 2
 

BobMarleyNYR

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That's my thinking as well... we have stockpiled a lot of guys who looked legit not long ago, and then just never took the next step... as of now, at least. Granted it's a tall order to unseat anyone in our top-six. Our prospects may have to wait a year until Boyle likely retires.

They're not there yet--McIlrath, Allen, Bodie, Anderson, Graves--and I doubt they all make the NHL.

I personally don't see McIlrath getting near his ceiling on this team anyway. Torts' team,yes, but I personally didn't see much potential in him at that stage.
 

haveandare

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I'm officially in the "let's start to think about how to unload Girardi" camp. Fact is, NYR have 3 shutdown guys who aren't great with the puck with any consistency. Staal IMO is very, very clearly the best both at shutting down the opposition and at playing with the puck when he's on. Klein is good at d and decent moving the puck from time to time. G is good at staying at home and just not good with the puck.

Klein would be easiest to move, but he's outperforming his contract, so that's not an ideal situation. Staal is too good on both sides to move IMO.

Really gotta wonder where G would go and how. With that salary, you'd assume a building team would be most willing to take the gamble, but I'm 100% sure he wouldn't take a trade to a bad team. When is his NMC/NTC whatever up?
 

haveandare

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That's my thinking as well... we have stockpiled a lot of guys who looked legit not long ago, and then just never took the next step... as of now, at least. Granted it's a tall order to unseat anyone in our top-six. Our prospects may have to wait a year until Boyle likely retires.

They're not there yet--McIlrath, Allen, Bodie, Anderson, Graves--and I doubt they all make the NHL.

I personally don't see McIlrath getting near his ceiling on this team anyway. Torts' team,yes, but I personally didn't see much potential in him at that stage.

IMO, McI and Graves are the only ones with a chance at the NHL on that list. McIlrath has very good chances of being an NHLer. Graves is too early to tell but it's looking good. Wouldn't be surprised if the other guys never make it anywhere.
 

Amazing Kreiderman

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I'm officially in the "let's start to think about how to unload Girardi" camp. Fact is, NYR have 3 shutdown guys who aren't great with the puck with any consistency. Staal IMO is very, very clearly the best both at shutting down the opposition and at playing with the puck when he's on. Klein is good at d and decent moving the puck from time to time. G is good at staying at home and just not good with the puck.

Klein would be easiest to move, but he's outperforming his contract, so that's not an ideal situation. Staal is too good on both sides to move IMO.

Really gotta wonder where G would go and how. With that salary, you'd assume a building team would be most willing to take the gamble, but I'm 100% sure he wouldn't take a trade to a bad team. When is his NMC/NTC whatever up?

The deal includes a full no-move clause in the first three years of the contract, which kicks in immediately, and a modified no-trade clause in the final three years of the deal.
 

haveandare

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Yes.

I'm more concerned that the FO loves him and have no desire to trade him.

As we've established about a million times in the other thread, I don't think he's quite the liability you do, but taking into account current play, future play and contract situations - I'd move him before Staal or Klein 100/100 times. Gotta get somebody out to make room for Yandle long-term.
 

Raspewtin

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As we've established about a million times in the other thread, I don't think he's quite the liability you do, but taking into account current play, future play and contract situations - I'd move him before Staal or Klein 100/100 times. Gotta get somebody out to make room for Yandle long-term.

I really wonder who that will be.

I'll be surprised if Klein finishes his contract as a Ranger.
 

Ola

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Every time I see one of those Road to the Winter Classic programs or whatever it's called with the Sharks, I think thank god we have Girardi...
 

bernmeister

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The MAJOR issue with this team right now is that we to a big extent have the team we have. This is a roster that is quite smaller than the team we had last year, especially up front. Last years team lost the battles infront of the net.

Boston is a good hockey team still, mainly struggling due to Chara not being the work horse he has been and injuries and lost players on the blue line. We could play them in the first round, what if they beat us by playing really physical hockey? If we loose this year because we are too small and not physical enough -- what do we do then?

We are "ok+" IMO on this score.
We are undersized in 2 Ws of our top 6.
This is partly why I pushed to move Zuc (since it is a given Marty can't be moved, only discounted/phased out).

We should be pleased where we are at for now.
No team, IMO is 100%+ on all cylinders, size, speed, talent, etc. at every position, but while we are nominal favorite to win, IMO, we still have to be wary on any given nite, an opposing G could get crazy hot, s*** could happen, sometimes it does.

Still, percentage wise IMO we are looking good.

I would not be worried about the Bs.
I would hope that, as we improve in increments, that win or lose, we do not rest on our laurels, and continue to try to build a team that is DOMINANT. That is still not 1 million percent infallible -- remember the 69 Mets- Orioles -- but THAT would be doing the best job of fielding the ultimately best team possible, IMO.

How is this team quite smaller than last year's? Hayes and Miller are both big, and Miller is one of the few players on this team that hits with some fire. Lost Pouliot and Richards, gained Hayes and Miller. Am I forgetting some other way we lost a significant amount of size? Stralman didn't play particularly big. Also, Sheppard is a pretty big boy.

As for the Boston idea, two things. 1. Worry about what-ifs when they materialize IMO, 2. This team could lose to Boston and not necessarily lose to them because they're too small.

If they do happen to lose to Boston and it does happen to be obvious that they lost because of lack of size, letting MSL walk and moving up Miller or moving in Buch somewhere would be a pretty obvious response. The only other guy who is really small in the big scheme of things is Zucc, and he's very, very feisty.

The net front battles that they lost routine were mostly to LA if I remember right, and it was mostly NYR defense letting LA's forwards have free run of the crease. In that case, where would they possible add size on D next year? Maybe in Boyle's spot if they could move him somehow? But McD, G, Staal, Klein and Yandle aren't exactly small guys. Yandle doesn't bring much physicality but the rest of them do.

This is where people are forgetting my reminder of the sports adage "the good big man usually beats the good little man", a truism that applies mostly in boxing. However, it arguably can be seen here in hockey as well.

Hayes is huge, even if he does not overly play extreme gnashing of your teeth into the boards type of game. While he uses a lot of finesse, he still makes his ample size -- particularly his reach -- work for him.

No, what I have meant and would apply here are deals that would try to get us one more dominant C, a guy like Ryjo for Stepan +.

We need to get a little bigger here, a little faster there on the backline, but we are very improved esp. since our drafting has been so well for recent years.

This is a good point. Having msl and zucc in the top 6 is a factor to consider. I would argue zucc plays bigger than his size but msl is a perimeter player. If msl isn't producing he is a net - player IMO. I always enjoyed the physical hockey but this current team has won me over. We have to stick to our game which is speed. We are no doubt going to have to deal with the crease issues but if we get teams playing from behind and our pp is clicking that's our best approach. If talbot could bring back prospect that fits our system I do it in heartbeat.

Teams like the blue jackets are so superior for the physical brand we would be nuts to even engage in that style. Besides they are their own worst enemy, injuries galore. If the refs pull the let em play bs it means we are in trouble. My biggest pet peeve is if it's a penalty reg season it's penalty playoffs. The slower physical teams always push this mantra. La got away with a lot.

Again, with a mind as to Brass getting a NMNTC this July, avoid that, and see if we can package Zuc with him. Zuc is comfy with Brass + might consider it if:
it is to a good team + location and
we give him a bonus for being traded, which offsets he would have gotten upwards of 1m more on the open market.

But again, not saying move this guys just to shuffle the deck.
Target a need, and can we get a premium piece or assets for what we would be surrendering.

I'm officially in the "let's start to think about how to unload Girardi" camp. Fact is, NYR have 3 shutdown guys who aren't great with the puck with any consistency. Staal IMO is very, very clearly the best both at shutting down the opposition and at playing with the puck when he's on. Klein is good at d and decent moving the puck from time to time. G is good at staying at home and just not good with the puck.

Klein would be easiest to move, but he's outperforming his contract, so that's not an ideal situation. Staal is too good on both sides to move IMO.

Really gotta wonder where G would go and how. With that salary, you'd assume a building team would be most willing to take the gamble, but I'm 100% sure he wouldn't take a trade to a bad team. When is his NMC/NTC whatever up?


Welcome.
There is at present ONLY 1 way that MAYBE = he would move.
He has 2 years after this which he controls. HE TOTALLY CONTROLS.
we have no say. Then, the shoe is on the other foot. The threat of going to ____ fill in the blank AT THAT TIME with no input from him whatsoever, ie hardball across the board, might be enough to induce him to consider a move to 3-4 teams that are a comfy fit. This is even the more so if we win the Cup, and feeling deprived as to that is not under his belt.

-----------------

Mods:

We should have a strategic planning thread.
It would examine/keep track of NMNTC clauses, and to what extent, if any, can we hope to break them?
Also, dealing with the cap + making cap space.
LIMITED trade discussion should be permitted there IF the deals focus on player movements relative to cap.

So for example, no longer applies, but if
Girardi (5.5) was traded for Lupul (5.25), then subsequent deal with Detroit for D prospects Sproul, etc. is pertinent to topic.

?s like what should we do with Buch would go on the main board, UNLESS it was like the scenario I described

Pls feel free to at least try it
I think by targeting attention to it, you may end up with less redundant posts overall (small period of adjustment), the undisciplined notwithstanding.
 

Ola

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I'm not sure I get this. Explain?

Attitude wise, those guys on the Sharks just don't look very focused. They have a helluva hockey team, but they are bending over. Marleau. Thornton. Burns. Even Pavelski. Just don't like how that team carry itself.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

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Jul 18, 2006
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Attitude wise, those guys on the Sharks just don't look very focused. They have a helluva hockey team, but they are bending over. Marleau. Thornton. Burns. Even Pavelski. Just don't like how that team carry itself.

Cannot compute. Is there an advanced statistic for this?
 

Ola

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Apr 10, 2004
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Cannot compute. Is there an advanced statistic for this?

Corsi {~ adjusted ;)

It's funny, because I think I was the first guy on the trade Girardi buss. We are talking long time ago here, for the same reason people want him moved out now. I don't disagree from an on ice POV, but these guys, Cally, Girardi , Hank and co, has instilled a winning attitude here in NY. G is valuble to us.
 

Raspewtin

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Attitude wise, those guys on the Sharks just don't look very focused. They have a helluva hockey team, but they are bending over. Marleau. Thornton. Burns. Even Pavelski. Just don't like how that team carry itself.

I don't understand what this has to do with Girardi.
 

RangerBoy

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How much will it cost to keep Hagelin long-term?

People say the Rangers got a great deal on Zuccarello. It cost them $4.5M. That is a lot of money.

Pat Brisson will submit a high number for salary arbitration. The arbitrator will split the difference.

His salary is $2.4M. He is getting a nice raise from $2.4M for at least one season with arbitration.

Brooks wrote about Hagelin and salary arbitration in December

The Rangers currently have five pending restricted free agents. Derek Stepan is sure to get at least $6M per, given his superior numbers to Colorado’s $6M Man, Ryan O’Reilly. Carl Hagelin is likely to come in for at least $3.5M. John Moore won’t get less than $1.5M in arbitration. Miller and Jesper Fast are each likely looking at $750,000-to-$1M.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/03/mumps-really-hurting-rangers-salary-cap-situation/

How much will it cost to keep Hagelin long-term? One year of salary arbitration heading into group III.

$3.5M for the arbitration year. At least $3.5M.

The Rangers weren't qualifying Moore to pay him $1.5M. They traded him.

Reilly Smith has .51 points per game. Hagelin is at .50.

That became reality on Friday, as the Bruins announced they had signed Krug to a one-year extension worth $3.4 million and Smith to a two-year extension worth $6.85 million. Smith will earn $3.35 million in the first year and $3.5 million in the second year.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...-extensions/5ioZpbr5aER8SLBtbe8yYJ/story.html

$3.425M.
 
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