2014-2015 General Wild Discussion Thread IV

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El Nino22

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I can certainly see them with Cooke, but doesn't he have another year on his contract too? I could see the LTIR though being an option and try to move him at the end of the year. I won't lose sleep if they part ways.



Well Carter, yes. Cooke not so much imo. Zucker coming back maybe by 1st round of the playoffs will really put a damper on it too.

Yeah LTIR is an option but also rosters expand once playoffs start so that may not be necessary. I definitely see them try to move him in the off-season. A team might take him for a year as a bottom 6 option or just for his cap hit if a teams near the floor.

Zucker is going to be interesting when he gets back. He's been skating and will be in shape but obviously getting his timing and touch up to speed will take a little time. I'm guessing he'll jump back on that Koivu line with Vanek or Stewart. Definitely going to be interesting to see how Yeo/Fletcher handle the lineup when everyone's healthy. Schroeder comes out for sure but how do you justify taking any of that 4th line out of the lineup with how well theyve played?
 

Dr Jan Itor

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Dec 10, 2009
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Parise - Granlund - Pommer
Vanek - Coyle - Nino
Bergenheim - Koivu - Stewart
Haula - Brodziak - Fontaine

When Carter comes back, he stays on the bench until someone on the 4th line deserves to sit. When Zucker gets back, he bumps Bergenheim either to the 4th line or out of the line-up.
 

BusQuets

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Only thing Wild needs right now is quality, we don't do anything with those players.
 

BigT2002

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Parise - Granlund - Pommer
Vanek - Coyle - Nino
Bergenheim - Koivu - Stewart
Haula - Brodziak - Fontaine

When Carter comes back, he stays on the bench until someone on the 4th line deserves to sit. When Zucker gets back, he bumps Bergenheim either to the 4th line or out of the line-up.

Your logic is flawless my friends. :nod:
 

Nino Noderreiter

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Jul 5, 2011
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Wanted to write down some of my thoughts about this year's Wild.


Obligatory PP thoughts

I would love to see the Wild run an umbrella PP 1 with

Put Dumba and Zucker at the top of each circle and Spurgeon in the middle of the umbrella up top. Pair them with Granlund and Parise. You can feed Dumba or Zucker for the 1 timer from the dot...or they can step in and try and pick a corner. Spurgeon's pretty solid at getting the puck through and arguably the best passer on the team.

Long story short...

I think you would see a lot more fluid looking PP. Instead of being so locked in to certain spots in the offensive zone and being as robotic as the Wild 1st PP is at times. Honestly I think that PP could be one of the best in the league.

Line Combos

PP1
Granlund (roaming around offensive zone)
Parise (roaming around offensive zone)
Zucker (right circle)
Dumba (left circle)
Spurgeo (top)

PP2 (I'm fine with them playing the style of PP they do as long as they are the 2nd PP)

Koivu (half-wall)
Vanek (slot)
Nino (front)
Suter
Scandella/Brodin

My reasoning

Why not let the Koivu and Suter transition to the more defensive/shutdown rolls that their is an argument they might thrive in. Plus, give the young guys some confidence. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that Suter and Koivu are two of our most consistent players. They don't cut corners and can shut down pretty much any matchup thrown against them.

Obviously that attitude is in no way a bad thing, but because of the style of play both guys are a little bit methodical and tend to lean towards making the safe play at the expense of possible turnovers. They're content to take what the other team gives them and make the opposing team play the entire ice until they make a mistake.

This is a great thing 5 on 5. I expect Koivu's line on most nights to play at least as well as the line they are shutting down. Offensively however Koivu's line really strictly generates offense by chipping the puck in deep, establishing the forecheck, then by establishing the cycle...making the opponent run around and start to scramble. After establishing possession they like to work it up high to the points and then crash the net...looking for tips, rebounds, deflections, screens, etc.

This is your textbook age-old strategy in the offensive zone hockey. It's not flashy because it relies mostly on hard work, positioning, hustle, and grit instead of skill.

BUT...

However it's really only an effective strategy for 5 on 5 hockey. On the PK, teams are very very content to let you pass it around as much as you'd like around the perimeter. And it's harder to cycle because opponents can just ice the puck instead of having to break it out.

To Clarify...

In no way am I hating on Koivu. He definitely is a big part of the identity of Wild hockey and his commitment to the system and cycle opens things up for the rest of the team as they get to face tired defenders. That one step is all the difference. There's a reason that the Wild look so fast this year.

I think that letting other guys take some of the responsibility on the 1st PP could not only make both guys more effective 5 v 5 players, but they could eat large PK minutes too--instead of guys like Prosser.

Hopefully giving some of the young guys some confidence and more PP time (which in a vacuum there's a lot of guys who deserve a shot as the current PP has been nothing special) helps their games step forward even more.

5 on 5 this team has got things figured out IMO

This is also the best strategy for the playoffs when things get shut-down even more and goals are even harder to come by and mistakes are magnified even more.

I'm really really curious to see how this team develops because I'm not sure of a good comparision in terms of style of play in my recent memory. I think our style of play is very similiar to the LA Kings in a lot of ways. Both shut things down in front of their goalie.

The Kings and Wild are top 2 in SOG/game allowed (27.08 and 27.18) While the Wild give up slightly fewer goals per game (2.54 to 2.58) because of a better PK (86% to 80%). And offensively the Wild are slightly more proficient than the Kings offensively (186g in 66gp to 175g in 65gp)

Also...!

The Wild are actually are in the top 10 for fewest penalties and have the 2nd best PK behind Carolina.

If Dubnyk is legit...the Wild's strategy to limit quality shots and scoring chances both 5 on 5 and on the PK makes the Wild a tough play for anyone. Limiting odd man rushes, high quality scoring chances, and 2nd chance forces opponents to really have to capitalize on the few chances they do get during a game.

And it makes things even tougher for opponents to execute at a high level because of the Wild's elite forecheck. Opponents are scrambling just to get the puck out and over the blue line to get a change instead of getting comfortable in the offensive zone.


Keep The D-Core Together At All Costs!!

That's why I think the defense is so important to the way that the Wild play. As long as the Wild have the speed in the lineup to establish their forecheck, keep lose pucks alive, and win 50-50 battles in the offensive zone they'll succeed even if some of the troops go down. (Zucker, Carter, Cooke, etc.)

Our bottom 6 is able to dominate because they all know their roles...they work the puck around, use their speed until they can get possession...get the puck up high to the D and get to the net. Keeping things simple allows guys, who maybe aren't as talented, to play without having to think. Guys know where their outlets are going to be if they are pressured and can play within their abilities and succeed. F3 sure as hell better stay high and be able to cover for a pinching defender if he should get beat and at least slow the other team down enough to prevent the opposition from breaking out with speed and numbers.

Offensively, the defense are expected to be able to aggressively hold the blue line. As well as pinch up the wall and tie the puck up around the halfwall. Make the winger look over his shoulder because he knows he's going to be hit. As teams get tired they will start trying to fling it up the boards just to relieve pressure. The key to the Wild's game is simply to set up shop in the offensive zone with the thought that your margin of error is a lot smaller.

As teams get tired they'll also start lobbing the puck out into the neutral zone. It's really important for Wild D to be able to be able to cleanly retrieve pucks and cleanly break out of the zone. The key is to get the puck deep into the oppositions zone with numbers as their opponent is trying to get guys on and off the ice for a change. It makes it a lot easier to keep teams on their heels and win puck battles if you have numbers.

However, a lot of times that means the D are left on an island a bit. The D have to be great skaters because they're expected to be really aggressive in the offensive zone...if they do happen to get beat...you gotta be able to get back. Also the forwards can tend to sometimes get sucked in too low around and behind the net after cycling for a while.

I'm almost never worried to see teams go down 2 on 2 against or 1 on 1 against the Wild.

I'll be criticized for saying this but...

I really think that our D-core of Suter/Brodin/Scandella/Spurgeon/Dumba is among the best in the league when healthy. And the Wild should be able to lock up all of them for the long term. Scandella and Spurgeon are just 25. Brodin and Dumba are 21 and 20 respectively.

Taking age into account, I would argue you can count on one hand other teams with 5 defenseman I'd rather have.

Let me give you an example

Ex. Blackhawks

Duncan Keith (31) Brent Seabrook (29)
Johnny Oduya (33) Niklas Hjalmarsson (27)
Kimmo Timonen (39) Michal Rozsival (36)

I would much rather have the Wild's D-core.


Please Wild!!

I really hope the Wild don't try and be too cute with this situation. One could argue that maybe Spurgeon would be expendable, but I think the defense are the most important part of a Mike Yeo coached Wild team. Let these guys continually to essentually grow up together.

Size or Speed? (In a perfect world obviously both)

It's interesting though because the Wild are so much smaller than the Kings. (Top-7 D average height is about 6.2 to the Wild's 6.05)

7 Wild Forwards (Parise, Granlund, Schroeder, Zucker, Bergenhiem, Haula, Fontaine, Cooke) who are under 6 feet tall. And that's not including Vanek or Parise. The Kings on the other hand do not have a single player under 6 feet. Needless to say Stewart was a good move. It's also good that some of our better guys coming up the system are bigger bodies like Tuch, Graovac, and Lucia.


Thanks for reading!

Anyways...just spent a couple hours really breaking down the Wild and I'm a pretty big believer in the vision that I see Fletcher, Yeo, and co having for this team. This is the 1st Wild team I have seen that really consistently forces other teams to play the game on the Wild's terms instead of the Wild trying to adjust to their game.

People talk about the Kings as a model of a team that's built for the playoffs and considered a Cup Contender albeit regular season records that don't quite reflect that. Both teams are teams that are really hard to play against and thus really tough to face in the series type format that the playoffs are in.

Last thing I'ld like to say...
Some people like to complain about the Wild's style and I know a lot of fans think that they don't take the puck into scoring areas enough, but it's not as black and white as some like to make it seem. Taking the puck into the middle of the ice and into the teeth of the defense will obviously net you better scoring chances, but also lead to more turnovers--less possession. Teams like EDM probably have some better individual talent than the Wild even, but there are only a few players that can succeed in the NHL single handedly trying to dangle and make plays.

I'd much rather have a team that plays like the Wild...than one that plays like the Avalanche or the Leafs. Both teams that like to score off the rush. You can have success, like the Avs did last year, but it's hard to sustain and be consistent. This is hockey's version of a team that "lives and dies" by the 3 pointer in Basketball. Those teams never succeed when things get tougher.

It's going to be a dogfight but...!!
I really hope this team makes the playoffs because I would be really interested to see how a team that plays the style that the Wild do succeeds especially because we play a style where we try to impose our game on the opposition, but really rely more on speed than previous teams similiar to the Wild.
 
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Nino Noderreiter

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Honestly I'm pretty impressed with Granlund's +16 (in 52 games) Brodin's +18 (54 games) and Matt Dumba's +10 (41 games).

I think Granlund has been having a better season than his points indicate...

I've always seen Granlund as probably topping out as a 10-20 goal 40-50 assist kind of guy. Would help if he could actually get some consistent PP time and a chance to really let his skills shine.
 

Spurgeon

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Nov 25, 2014
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Solid post TwInS.

Nobody should be worried about this team. Does our PP need help, obviously, but it seems to work itself out. We go through stretches where it works phenomenally and stretches where it doesn't. As Parise said before our team started to slump, "Would you rather we win games or score on the PP?" Well, ironically, they started to score on the PP and lose games. I'll take our current situation over what we were dealing with 30 games ago. If our PK keeps it up, they'll just wash each other out, and I believe during this stretch we were rated among the top of the league in 5v5 scoring chances, so it's okay if our special teams even out.

Now onto the state of the team. I really wish Fletcher wouldn't have made both of those moves for Bergenheim and Stewart. One or the other is all we needed. I've liked what I've seen from Stewart, but Bergenheim really hasn't been visible to me since the first few games we got him. On Stewart, that was an incredibly smart play he made today with that pass off the boards from the blue line and then going to retrieve the puck that lead to the goal. That is a high hockey IQ play and I've been liking Stewart more and more. Bergenheim, on the other hand, hasn't really done much of anything either way. He's kind of a wash and I'd rather have Schroeder playing over him at this moment.

I feel like Fletcher kind of got unlucky because he's been interested in Stewart, but by the time he was available, we had already made our move, but for a 2nd 3 drafts from now, you practically have to take that deal.

Chemistry takes quite a few games to get going, especially without practices, so after this Devils game, we have a couple days off where I'm sure they'll get some practices in and try to build that chemistry and figure the lines out.

Personally, I want to see something like this still:

Parise - Granlund - Pominville

Vanek - Koivu - Schroeder (Vanek-Schroeder seem to have some chemistry)

Nino - Coyle - Stewart

Bergenheim/Haula - Brodziak - Fontaine

You also have to remember that we've been on this stretch of games while being out two of our Top 4 defensemen, when you solidify our defensive groupings, we're a tough team to play. Hell, I get excited now every time Dumba is on the ice with the puck and he'll be relegated to the 3rd pairing, when you have that defensive depth, you're going to continue to win games.

Suter - Brodin

Scandella - Spurgeon

Prosser - Dumba

We're going to make the playoffs and we're going to make some noise in the playoffs. This team has been something else recently.
 

Nino Noderreiter

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Solid post TwInS.

Nobody should be worried about this team. Does our PP need help, obviously, but it seems to work itself out. We go through stretches where it works phenomenally and stretches where it doesn't. As Parise said before our team started to slump, "Would you rather we win games or score on the PP?" Well, ironically, they started to score on the PP and lose games. I'll take our current situation over what we were dealing with 30 games ago. If our PK keeps it up, they'll just wash each other out, and I believe during this stretch we were rated among the top of the league in 5v5 scoring chances, so it's okay if our special teams even out.

Now onto the state of the team. I really wish Fletcher wouldn't have made both of those moves for Bergenheim and Stewart. One or the other is all we needed. I've liked what I've seen from Stewart, but Bergenheim really hasn't been visible to me since the first few games we got him. On Stewart, that was an incredibly smart play he made today with that pass off the boards from the blue line and then going to retrieve the puck that lead to the goal. That is a high hockey IQ play and I've been liking Stewart more and more. Bergenheim, on the other hand, hasn't really done much of anything either way. He's kind of a wash and I'd rather have Schroeder playing over him at this moment.

I feel like Fletcher kind of got unlucky because he's been interested in Stewart, but by the time he was available, we had already made our move, but for a 2nd 3 drafts from now, you practically have to take that deal.

Chemistry takes quite a few games to get going, especially without practices, so after this Devils game, we have a couple days off where I'm sure they'll get some practices in and try to build that chemistry and figure the lines out.

Personally, I want to see something like this still:

Parise - Granlund - Pominville

Vanek - Koivu - Schroeder (Vanek-Schroeder seem to have some chemistry)

Nino - Coyle - Stewart

Bergenheim/Haula - Brodziak - Fontaine

You also have to remember that we've been on this stretch of games while being out two of our Top 4 defensemen, when you solidify our defensive groupings, we're a tough team to play. Hell, I get excited now every time Dumba is on the ice with the puck and he'll be relegated to the 3rd pairing, when you have that defensive depth, you're going to continue to win games.

Suter - Brodin

Scandella - Spurgeon

Prosser - Dumba

We're going to make the playoffs and we're going to make some noise in the playoffs. This team has been something else recently.

Man I would love to see what this team could do if they could ever get healthy all at once. I don't even know where to slot guys. If Zucker comes back I would guess he would be on that 2nd line with Koivu and Vanek in your lineup. And I still think Schroeder deserves to play.

I also think Haula needs to play...he's the key to our PK with his speed.
 

gphr513

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Jan 14, 2014
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I was listening to Tenna B earlier, on the FAN. He said that Roy's excuse for having McLeod on the ice was that he saw Coyle on the ice. As if he needed to put his tough guy out there in case Coyle was going to start something. Seriously? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Like Tenna said, there's not a single player on the Wild roster who anyone should be worried about picking a fight.
 

Engebretson

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Nov 4, 2010
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Yeah, I'm not sure which was more delusional of Roy, calling out Russo for writing an article that Roy clearly didn't read, or him claiming that Charlie Coyle was some sort of menace that needed to be kept in check by the noble Cody McLeod.
 

Avder

The Very Weedcat
Jun 2, 2011
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A place.
I think Yesterday's Royisms were so over the top that I can discount them as intentionally out there to draw the spotlight away from his teams performance this year vs MN and on to him as the crazy coach.

Seems to have worked.
 

J22*

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I think Yesterday's Royisms were so over the top that I can discount them as intentionally out there to draw the spotlight away from his teams performance this year vs MN and on to him as the crazy coach.

Seems to have worked.

It worked in the sense that they won the game, but that's still a terrible team. The Wild were not great yesterday, but still dominated that game. The Avs had 13 even strength shots in a game they were desperate to win. That game was decided by 7 or 8 bounces/breaks and the Avs got all but 1 to go their way, and still only won by a goal.

To give Roy and his delusional quotes any credit for how that game turned out, would be laughable IMO.
 

Avder

The Very Weedcat
Jun 2, 2011
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A place.
We didn't dominate that game except for 10 minutes or do where we actually showed up. Otherwise we were practically sleepwalking.
 

rynryn

Reluctant Optimist. Permanently Déclassé.
May 29, 2008
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We didn't dominate that game except for 10 minutes or do where we actually showed up. Otherwise we were practically sleepwalking.

and it was still enough to be better than the Avs, who presumably were playing at their best level. He already addressed the "but the score!" retort. No that was far from our best game, but it wasn't horrible, either.
 

JudgeJimmie

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Honestly, I don't like that he's playing over Schroeder one bit. If we are breaking up that 4th line, Schroeder should be in the lineup. Kids done a lot to show he can play, and every game he is in he's buzzing around the ice. Creative, quick, high hockey IQ. Should have left the 4th line (That has been clicking) in tact, and placed Schroeder in for Bergie on the Vanek Coyle line.. Vanek - Coyle - Schroeder have been great together too..
 

BusQuets

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I feel like it's between Vanek,Fountaine and Schroeder. All of them can't be in the line up at the same time because none of them brings any size and physicality.
 

SomethingGeneric

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I feel like Yeo doesn't have to play Bergenheim come playoff time, however he has to validate the trade. If berg continues to not produce, Schroeder can always come back in the lineup. I don't think Yeo is going, "wow i really don't want to play Schroeder.
 

nickschultzfan

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Jan 7, 2009
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I feel like Yeo doesn't have to play Bergenheim come playoff time, however he has to validate the trade. If berg continues to not produce, Schroeder can always come back in the lineup. I don't think Yeo is going, "wow i really don't want to play Schroeder.
That, and Yeo would also like to know what every player on his team can bring. He'll give every player a chance to show their mettle unless they are young (because he has plenty of time with them to figure it out).

If Bergenheim isn't adding elements, then he'll sit. If he is, Yeo will find a spot for him.
 
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