2014 - 2015 Coyotes Roster Part 9

[Longwayfromhome]

Tippett needs to be gone. He needs to open his eyes and stop playing his trustees all the time.

 

[Jakey53]

Yandle actually plays with passion. I'd keep him. Trade the ones that don't. And fire the coach. And the GM.

Yes he does, unfortunately, if we keep him the rebuild may be longer than if he is traded. When Doan was out last year Yandle showed his true colors, was the best player on our team by a country mile.

 

[IPreferPi]

Yes he does, unfortunately, if we keep him the rebuild may be longer than if he is traded. When Doan was out last year Yandle showed his true colors, was the best player on our team by a country mile.

Not sure how keeping Yandle prolongs a rebuild. Unless we actually flipped him for a package including a legit top line 60+ point forward, he should still be outproducing the forwards we would get in return for a good while.

 

[Guest]

We already bought out Ribiero. The team can't afford more dead money out of its pockets.

I disagree, if you are going to commit to the rebuild that kind of dead money helps you reach the floor. When you are in a rebuild you don't expect to turn it around in one season unless you had some depth to start with, and we clearly don't. It's going to take a couple of years to stock the roster and sign a key free agent or two for leadership.

 

[Jakey53]

The Yotes are not a team that can afford to have bad signings like Ribero and Smith and yet now we are stuck by those bad decisions.

At the time of Ribeiro's signing, most were in favor, and with Smith most felt it was a little high but considering the way he had been playing and the way he had DM in a corner thought it was acceptable.

 

[Jakey53]

Not sure how keeping Yandle prolongs a rebuild. Unless we actually flipped him for a package including a legit top line 60+ point forward, he should still be outproducing the forwards we would get in return for a good while.

Maybe the first year or two but after that I would hope that the players we get in return would benefit us.

 

[Jakey53]

I disagree, if you are going to commit to the rebuild that kind of dead money helps you reach the floor. When you are in a rebuild you don't expect to turn it around in one season unless you had some depth to start with, and we clearly don't. It's going to take a couple of years to stock the roster and sign a key free agent or two for leadership.

You could be right, especially if we trade Yandle.

 

[ck26]

DM gets two offers today:

Scenario A:
Vermette for a late 2015 1st and a middling Center prospect
Michalek for a 2015 2nd
Erat for a NHL-ready but middling prospect (someone on the Jordan Szwarz tier)

Scenario B:
Vermette, Michalek and Smith for $8-10m worth of short-term salary dump contracts (i.e.: Scrivens and Nikitin from EDM, or Pavelec and Clitsome and Thorbun from WPG, something like that)

Financial "get out of jail free" card or good young assets? Which one do you want?

 

[IPreferPi]

DM gets two offers today:

Scenario A:
Vermette for a late 2015 1st and a middling Center prospect
Michalek for a 2015 2nd
Erat for a NHL-ready but middling prospect (someone on the Jordan Szwarz tier)

Scenario B:
Vermette, Michalek and Smith for $8-10m worth of short-term salary dump contracts (i.e.: Scrivens and Nikitin from EDM, or Pavelec and Clitsome and Thorbun from WPG, something like that)

Financial "get out of jail free" card or good young assets? Which one do you want?

The former.

 

[cobra427]

The Yotes are not a team that can afford to have bad signings like Ribero and Smith and yet now we are stuck by those bad decisions.

True. But, this is why signing UFA's is risky. You pay top dollar so your chances of over paying and the player under performing are high. These are the only 2 players DM signed in their prime and neither worked out. Both were market rate deals, not discounts. Both players had baggage, Ribs with a history of personal issues and Smith with one great year, average at best after. Other teams can make mistakes, we can't.

The bottom line is we need a larger budget. Without a larger budget, we have to get lucky with trades and signings, Bryz/Smith(1)/Whitney.
Then we have to trade everyone before they are a UFA. I don't know how we win with all ELC and RFA contracts on the roster and depend on lucky, low budget signings, because that is essentially what we have to be now.

We caught lightning in a bottle once with the mix of players, Tips coaching, Smiths play, DM's lucky signings, Crawfords poor play, Nashville benching Russians, in our WCF run. Stars were aligned and we can't count on that any more. We were very lucky.

I don't know that we are unlucky now, maybe we lust ran out of smoke and mirrors.

 

[Mosby]

http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/wort...guins-believed-interested-in-coyotes-vermette

Some good info here re: Vermette, McEichel, Smith

 

[hbk]

It's commical at this point. Breathe everyone. We needed a complete disaster in order to force Maloney into changing the core. If we draft in Top 5 I view this season as a key step towards long-term sustainable success. Hell if we snag any of Marner, Strome, Crouse, Zacha we are moving forward. Drafting in that 12 hole just means more mediocrity. A Hanifan, Eichel, McDavid would be over the moon exciting.

 

[ck26]

Cobra, everything you're saying basically explains why DM is so interested in "overcooking" our prospects. It's not about pure "luck" it's about developing players properly.

7 years of team control in NHL/AHL hockey under the current CBA. The clock isn't running on Max Domi's 7 years yet. Leon Draisaitl's clock in EDM is already running. The actual contracts might not work out this way, but Draisaitl will be UFA-eligible before Max Domi. Consider that. Draisaitl is lost at sea and getting benched and getting ruined right now and Max Domi is rounding out holes in his game in juniors. Get an older, bigger, stronger, more mature rookie. Keep control of them for longer. Save cash in the long run.

We've always had a river that had its ups and downs. Boedker, Tikhonov got here immediately after the draft. Mueller, Turris and OEL got here after 1 season.

In order to better manage the flow of water, we've built a big dam up stream from Glendale. This current season is essentially the water shortage that you get when you build a dam and wait for the lake to slowly fill up. Once it's full (maybe this summer?), we'll start to see water (Domi, Samuelsson) spill over the dam and get to Glendale. At that point, we'll have a full compliment of kids cooking in juniors without being rushed to the NHL. Lessio and Shinnimin and Szwarz are sitting in the lake right now. Perlini makes it over the wall the next year. Laplante and Dauphin and Dvorak and McInnis and the rest maybe the year after.

Hanzal took 2 years. Yandle and Murphy took more than 2 years. Gormley and Stone took a full 4 years in CHL/AHL to get here, and all did pretty well basically from jump street. Patience.

We don't have to have smoke and mirrors every year. We have to be smart with the free agents we sign (Vitale? Dubnyk? Griess? Halpern? All are nice.) and make sure we don't waste prospects by mishandling them.

 

[hbk]

Cobra, everything you're saying basically explains why DM is so interested in "overcooking" our prospects. It's not about pure "luck" it's about developing players properly.

7 years of team control in NHL/AHL hockey under the current CBA. The clock isn't running on Max Domi's 7 years yet. Leon Draisaitl's clock in EDM is already running. The actual contracts might not work out this way, but Draisaitl will be UFA-eligible before Max Domi. Consider that. Draisaitl is lost at sea and getting benched and getting ruined right now and Max Domi is rounding out holes in his game in juniors. Get an older, bigger, stronger, more mature rookie. Keep control of them for longer. Save cash in the long run.

We've always had a river that had its ups and downs. Boedker, Tikhonov got here immediately after the draft. Mueller, Turris and OEL got here after 1 season.

In order to better manage the flow of water, we've built a big dam up stream from Glendale. This current season is essentially the water shortage that you get when you build a dam and wait for the lake to slowly fill up. Once it's full (maybe this summer?), we'll start to see water (Domi, Samuelsson) spill over the dam and get to Glendale. At that point, we'll have a full compliment of kids cooking in juniors without being rushed to the NHL. Lessio and Shinnimin and Szwarz are sitting in the lake right now. Perlini makes it over the wall the next year. Laplante and Dauphin and Dvorak and McInnis and the rest maybe the year after.

Hanzal took 2 years. Yandle and Murphy took more than 2 years. Gormley and Stone took a full 4 years in CHL/AHL to get here, and all did pretty well basically from jump street. Patience.

We don't have to have smoke and mirrors every year. We have to be smart with the free agents we sign (Vitale? Dubnyk? Griess? Halpern? All are nice.) and make sure we don't waste prospects by mishandling them.

Good post.

 

[lanky]

great analogy

 

[Flyotes]

Couts, Gostisbehere and a 2nd would do it for me.

The Flyers say no to this. Flyers fans on HF are not fans of Yandle historically, although as someone who watches both teams the Flyers could certainly use him and he's played great recently.

Problem is: Couts is hard to move because he's a defensive anchor that does an enormous amount of heavy lifting, creating a secondary effect of allowing Giroux and Voracek to not play against top lines every shift and helping their production. Laughton finally being up has lessened Couts's burden and Couts has been scoring a tad more recently offensively which everyone is happy about. Flyer fans believe Ghost's top upside is Yandle-ish and would only be getting older by getting Yandle. This year is probably a wash for the Flyers so they are fine waiting for Ghost / Hagg / Morin next year, 2/3 of which will probably be up. Ghost is no spring chicken.

I doubt they'd do it for Couts alone, much less both, plus a pick.

 

[rt]

DM gets two offers today:

Scenario A:
Vermette for a late 2015 1st and a middling Center prospect
Michalek for a 2015 2nd
Erat for a NHL-ready but middling prospect (someone on the Jordan Szwarz tier)

Scenario B:
Vermette, Michalek and Smith for $8-10m worth of short-term salary dump contracts (i.e.: Scrivens and Nikitin from EDM, or Pavelec and Clitsome and Thorbun from WPG, something like that)

Financial "get out of jail free" card or good young assets? Which one do you want?

The financial "get out of jail free" card. ESPECIALLY if it's Edmonton. Vermette and Michalek added to that team and subtracted from ours gets them further from McEichel and us closer.

 

[rt]

To Toronto:
Korpikoski
Chipchura
Summers

To Arizona:
Orr
McLaren
Bodie
-----------------
To Edmonton:
Tippett
Smith
Vermette(50%)
Michalek(50%)

To Arizona:
Scrivens
Fayne

 

[Jakey53]

Tippett needs to be gone. He needs to open his eyes and stop playing his trustees all the time.

Who do you suggest he play?

 

[rt]

Who do you suggest he play?

Good point. Earlier in the year line-up decisions angered me. We're past that. There isn't a way you can stack this pile of turds that makes it anything better than a uniquely stacked pile of turds.

 

[Grimes]

I'd still prefer to get futures and a roster player for Vermette. I also honestly think Tippett with Smith to EDM could happen, no need to add Z or Vermette. A good coach may be harder to find then a good goalie at this point, and Tippett may be just what the EDM fans need to feel like change and progress are being made. That TOR cap dump is genius, I wonder if either scenario is likely though. Are you even allowed to "trade" a coach?

If we land a McEichel I think we will have one more year to rebuild. I'm still for moving Yandle this year, as an 8x8 deal may hurt our chances of resigning OEL and the said McEichel when the time comes. It would have to be for the right price though as I'm not opposed to keeping him either.

 

[goyotes]

Tippett needs to be gone. He needs to open his eyes and stop playing his trustees all the time.

Firing Tip will be one more huge step backwards for this organization. He is one of the best coaches in the NHL. GMDM needs to face the music for the team he has put out there. Has Tip maybe "lost the room"? Perhaps, but I don't think that extends to the vets that the organization would want to retain. Who really cares if he has lost "this" room? Do you really want to keep this team?

Lose Gags, keep Ribs and Verby, and this team is at least close to .500 at this stage, and a piece or two away from competing. Trade Z and get a RHD with some grit, and with Dubs as our starter we are probably contending for the last spot.

GMDM (or ownership as it may turn out) really screwed the pooch this past off season. And, everyone on this board basically predicted this team would finish at the bottom.

 

[Jakey53]

Cobra, everything you're saying basically explains why DM is so interested in "overcooking" our prospects. It's not about pure "luck" it's about developing players properly.

7 years of team control in NHL/AHL hockey under the current CBA. The clock isn't running on Max Domi's 7 years yet. Leon Draisaitl's clock in EDM is already running. The actual contracts might not work out this way, but Draisaitl will be UFA-eligible before Max Domi. Consider that. Draisaitl is lost at sea and getting benched and getting ruined right now and Max Domi is rounding out holes in his game in juniors. Get an older, bigger, stronger, more mature rookie. Keep control of them for longer. Save cash in the long run.

We've always had a river that had its ups and downs. Boedker, Tikhonov got here immediately after the draft. Mueller, Turris and OEL got here after 1 season.

In order to better manage the flow of water, we've built a big dam up stream from Glendale. This current season is essentially the water shortage that you get when you build a dam and wait for the lake to slowly fill up. Once it's full (maybe this summer?), we'll start to see water (Domi, Samuelsson) spill over the dam and get to Glendale. At that point, we'll have a full compliment of kids cooking in juniors without being rushed to the NHL. Lessio and Shinnimin and Szwarz are sitting in the lake right now. Perlini makes it over the wall the next year. Laplante and Dauphin and Dvorak and McInnis and the rest maybe the year after.

Hanzal took 2 years. Yandle and Murphy took more than 2 years. Gormley and Stone took a full 4 years in CHL/AHL to get here, and all did pretty well basically from jump street. Patience.

We don't have to have smoke and mirrors every year. We have to be smart with the free agents we sign (Vitale? Dubnyk? Griess? Halpern? All are nice.) and make sure we don't waste prospects by mishandling them.

Totally agree, but I would like to see a higher budget. With our lousy drafting over the years, it was hard to fill that dam, but with better drafting of late, we are starting to see the results.

 

[Jakey53]

Firing Tip will be one more huge step backwards for this organization. He is one of the best coaches in the NHL. GMDM needs to face the music for the team he has put out there. Has Tip maybe "lost the room"? Perhaps, but I don't think that extends to the vets that the organization would want to retain. Who really cares if he has lost "this" room? Do you really want to keep this team?

Lose Gags, keep Ribs and Verby, and this team is at least close to .500 at this stage, and a piece or two away from competing. Trade Z and get a RHD with some grit, and with Dubs as our starter we are probably contending for the last spot.

GMDM (or ownership as it may turn out) really screwed the pooch this past off season. And, everyone on this board basically predicted this team would finish at the bottom.

I agree.

 

[DesertDawg]

Who do you suggest he play?

Tippet is a player's coach and talks positive about his players. He does not bad mouth anyone, so blaming him for having to play a roster full of 4th line/3rd line forwards doesn't do him justice.
If you want to blame someone, blame Ribeiro for not waiving his NMC. Just think he will make < $2.5 mil this year (overall) and as a 35 yo he will be looking for a new contract instead of making $6mil for the next 2 years.
I see the team taking a hit this season and bouncing back to the playoffs next. The reason I do is in Maloney I Trust! It wouldn't surprise me if the Coyotes trade Vermette, and then during the off-season they re-sign him. I doubt the league would call out the Coyotes for that. I'm surprise no one else has mentioned it.

I still don't understand why the Oilers didn't take Chipchura when they had a chance.