2014 - 2015 Coyotes Roster Part 6

[Mosby]

I would try:

Yandle - Michalek
OEL - Murphy
Gormley(ha) - Stone.
Summers

This. Perfect.

 

[CC96]

A average 2nd line, an okay 3rd line, a good 4th line, and a mediocre 4th line.

Was just about to post this.

 

[rt]

Doan - Vermette - Boedker
Korpi - Gagner - Erat
McM - Vitale - Crombeen
Klink - Chip - Moss

A average 2nd line, an okay 3rd line, a good 4th line, and a mediocre 4th line.

Was just about to post this.

Dave Tippett approved.

 

[Plub]

We are 2-2 after 4 games. Looking at the schedule before hand, this is what I would have expected. If you guys expected any better after 4 games, your expectations were a lot higher than mine. Stay off ledges.

If Gormley wants out, so what, he has zero leverage. If we can make a good trade, we should trade him because it makes sense, not because he is complaining. We don't know that he wants out or is complaining. I am not against trading him because I suspect he will be a bottom pairing D with 3-4 upside. We should trade him if some team thinks he can still be a top pairing D. If he was that good, next OEL, or could be that good, how did he not beat out one of our world beaters, Schlemko/Summers/Murphy? He is not 18 or 19, he is 22, so his development is slow, if you think he is going to be a stud number 1 D.

I for one am glad that DM (he is not MacT) does not force Tip (he is not Eakins) to play young guys, it never works. Hopefully the new owner has some money to spend, because that is what we really need, more established players, not rookies.

The best thing any manager can do is realize when they have made a mistake and correct it. Ribs was a mistake but we got rid of him quickly rather then trying to defend the signing to ownership. Same thing with Lombardi and Sullivan.

DM and Tip are highly regarded and would be out of a job for 24 hours or less if they get fired. Dm has had a limited budget and mostly makes prudent decisions. He has not been fleeced on a trade. If you guys think we should fire DM, fire Tip, and play all the young guys, we will be the Oilers, and maybe go 5+ years before we sniff the playoffs again. Remember, we missed by 2 points last year, we were close.

You really don't pay attention to anything anyone says do you? Nor do you watch prospects closely. Gormley is going to peak as a possible 3-4 d-man? And again you try to prove a point by saying if he was good enough he would be on the roster even though many on here have been trying to enlighten a few of you guys as to the obvious error in player selection?

He should be on the roster. The problem is that DT does not like playing rookies. They are almost always call ups due to injuries.

... and again with the stupid Oiler comparison. How many times has it been pointed out we expected a couple rookie players to make it. No one is asking for all of them to make the team. We are asking that the GM do what he said he would do -- yes GMDM said we needed to inject youth into this roster -- and start seeing what we have in our prospects and get rid of some of the old complacent players as he said he would.

It's maddening how closed minded some people are.

 

[SniperHF]

We are 2-2 after 4 games. Looking at the schedule before hand, this is what I would have expected. If you guys expected any better after 4 games, your expectations were a lot higher than mine. Stay off ledges.

If Gormley wants out, so what, he has zero leverage. If we can make a good trade, we should trade him because it makes sense, not because he is complaining. We don't know that he wants out or is complaining. I am not against trading him because I suspect he will be a bottom pairing D with 3-4 upside. We should trade him if some team thinks he can still be a top pairing D. If he was that good, next OEL, or could be that good, how did he not beat out one of our world beaters, Schlemko/Summers/Murphy? He is not 18 or 19, he is 22, so his development is slow, if you think he is going to be a stud number 1 D.

I for one am glad that DM (he is not MacT) does not force Tip (he is not Eakins) to play young guys, it never works. Hopefully the new owner has some money to spend, because that is what we really need, more established players, not rookies.

The best thing any manager can do is realize when they have made a mistake and correct it. Ribs was a mistake but we got rid of him quickly rather then trying to defend the signing to ownership. Same thing with Lombardi and Sullivan.

DM and Tip are highly regarded and would be out of a job for 24 hours or less if they get fired. Dm has had a limited budget and mostly makes prudent decisions. He has not been fleeced on a trade. If you guys think we should fire DM, fire Tip, and play all the young guys, we will be the Oilers, and maybe go 5+ years before we sniff the playoffs again. Remember, we missed by 2 points last year, we were close.

Well as pointed out in the other thread, there are many shades of grey between going the full Edmonton and not giving a couple guys who clearly earned it a chance.

Don't think many expected much from this season either. The reason people are concerned is that it's one thing to be mediocre. It's quite another to be mediocre when your #2 prospect is unhappy. The previously thought of as an organizational strength defense is a trainwreck. The very thing this coach is supposed to be good at, system play, has been mediocre to flat out bad for 2 years. The forward group is obviously worse. And Smith is still inconsistent as hell except now he's paid 6m a year.

So the question is if you succeed at making the playoffs with this roster anyway, what's the upside? Where does it improve? Cause that's getting harder to see by the day.

OEL gets a raise next year. Domi may very well end up in the AHL. Samuelsson might not be ready. Gormley might be out of town. Lesser prospects like Lessio and Reider could still not yet have gotten much NHL exposure so you don't know what you have there.

Basically the odds are increasingly likely that we end up in exactly the same position next off season. If this year was supposed to be a transitional one we aren't actually making that transition. If we were supposed to compete for a playoff spot and upset our way to the CF again this roster is demonstrably worse than the one we had last year. Those are the only two possible plans I can see someone having with this roster. But neither of those plans are going to work with the decisions being made over the last 3 months.

 

[_Del_]

If he was that good, next OEL, or could be that good, how did he not beat out one of our world beaters, Schlemko/Summers/Murphy?

Because our organizational philosophy might be off? Player evaluation may be off? "If Kyle Turris was that good how did he not beat out one of our world beaters Belanger/Patrick O'Sullivan/Brule?"

Tippett does what's best. Therefore, what is best is what Tippett does. Welcome to the tautology club. The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club.

If you guys think we should fire DM, fire Tip, and play all the young guys, we will be the Oilers, and maybe go 5+ years before we sniff the playoffs again.

There's the false dichotomy we all know and love...

PS -- we had fewer wins than the Oilers over the last 60 games of the season last year. We already are the Oilers. Without the talent and hope.

 

[KG]

We are icing the same team that hasn't made the playoffs in the last two years. What, exactly, makes you think anything will be different? And what's worse, the roster is just good enough to not tank- which is the worst spot for a franchise. Because then you aren't competing for the playoffs, and you aren't high enough in t he draft to score that guaranteed franchise player.

 

[YandlesMother]

We need people like you to even all of us out

Not all of us are bad

I'm not a pollyanna about it either. As I've mentioned before, I pay a decent amount per year to watch the Coyotes play 41 nights in person. If anything, I'm as pissed about just missing the playoffs and performance as the rest of you. But I just don't the same large problems.

 

[YandlesMother]

We are icing the same team that hasn't made the playoffs in the last two years. What, exactly, makes you think anything will be different? And what's worse, the roster is just good enough to not tank- which is the worst spot for a franchise. Because then you aren't competing for the playoffs, and you aren't high enough in t he draft to score that guaranteed franchise player.

Sorry - should of clarified. Thinking the team is mcbad, Tippett has a grizzled hardon for older guys, and that kids should be angry with Maloney isn't what my gripe is. Its the snarky ******** that people shut other posters down with. Going into this season my biggest fear was another 9-10 place performance. First four games confirm that. I'd like to see a bigger sample. If we get to 15, and moves aren't being made to "be worse" or "be better", then I'll throw my lot in with you.

EDIT: And really, its all good. For the record I don't see a change happening at GM or Head Coach within 2014 or 2015.

 

[KG]

Sorry - should of clarified. Thinking the team is mcbad, Tippett has a grizzled hardon for older guys, and that kids should be angry with Maloney isn't what my gripe is. Its the snarky ******** that people shut other posters down with.

EDIT: And really, its all good. For the record I don't see a change happening at GM or Head Coach within 2014 or 2015.

Fair enough.

I'm really starting to think Tippet ought to go. He seems to do better with veteran-laden teams and then fall of when youth needs to be injected. We saw this with Dallas as well.

I'm willing to give GMDM more time. At this point I think he's made a few very big mistakes, but has also made some brilliant moves. With Reiger on board I don't think we should axe him just yet.

 

[YandlesMother]

Fair enough.

I'm really starting to think Tippet ought to go. He seems to do better with veteran-laden teams and then fall of when youth needs to be injected. We saw this with Dallas as well.

I'm willing to give GMDM more time. At this point I think he's made a few very big mistakes, but has also made some brilliant moves. With Reiger on board I don't think we should axe him just yet.

If someone goes, it'll be Tippett first. It's just so odd how different the view is outside of the Phoenix market than the current mentality on HF. Don't get me wrong, even you negative ******** know more about our team than the general national consensus, but its amazing how different the opinion is.

 

[XX]

Can I ignore your troll avatar? Seriously, with the luck of this franchise, we end up drafting McDavid and he busts worse than Daigle.

McDavid is a quality kid, as best as anyone can tell. Really. 30 teams would take him in a heartbeat. Daigle gave up on hockey.

I don't see my avatar as trollish. Just a reminder of what could be - another very, very good #97 that could have a massive impact on the franchise. Beats picking 12th every year.

 

[YandlesMother]

McDavid is a quality kid, as best as anyone can tell. Really. 30 teams would take him in a heartbeat. Daigle gave up on hockey.

I don't see my avatar as trollish. Just a reminder of what could be - another very, very good #97 that could have a massive impact on the franchise. Beats picking 12th every year.

Yea but its like touching the cup when you haven't won it. I'll say this though: If all hell breaks loose and we end up with the overall 1, Tippett needs to go.

 

[KG]

McDavid is a quality kid, as best as anyone can tell. Really. 30 teams would take him in a heartbeat. Daigle gave up on hockey.

I don't see my avatar as trollish. Just a reminder of what could be - another very, very good #97 that could have a massive impact on the franchise. Beats picking 12th every year.

I was poking fun. But what about Eichel? He's an American to boot. Tearing up NCAA as an underager.

 

[CC96]

McDavid is a quality kid, as best as anyone can tell. Really. 30 teams would take him in a heartbeat. Daigle gave up on hockey.

I don't see my avatar as trollish. Just a reminder of what could be - another very, very good #97 that could have a massive impact on the franchise. Beats picking 12th every year.

This.

 

[XX]

I was poking fun. But what about Eichel? He's an American to boot. Tearing up NCAA as an underager.

If given the choice between an equal CHL player and an NCAA player, the tie always goes to the CHL. After the Turris debacle I really would just avoid the NCAA situation altogether. I'd be ecstatic if Eichel ended up a Coyote, no doubt, but I wouldn't take him if I was given the choice. Assuming their performances stay roughly on track to be in the same neighborhood.

 

[YandlesMother]

This.

The actual scary thing is that a talent like McDavid (gentle reminder he has 25 points through 9 games) could be a franchise saver.

 

[_Del_]

If someone goes, it'll be Tippett first. It's just so odd how different the view is outside of the Phoenix market than the current mentality on HF. Don't get me wrong, even you negative ******** know more about our team than the general national consensus, but its amazing how different the opinion is.

Tippett is a top 5 coach in the NHL. He'd be unemployed less than a week. I just don't know that he is the right coach for this organization at this time. We don't have the veteran talent for a Tippett playoff team right now. We saw that the last two years. If we're not going to add young talent, and we can't afford to add veteran talent we're just spinning our wheels with Tippett at the helm. This franchise will not thrive with a "zero development" stance on NHL ice for young players. Could the 90's Detroit teams survive? Yes, they had an unlimited budget and would just sign free agents and trade all their youth for veteran help. It is a brilliant way to run if you can afford it. It also helps that dynastic approach was pre-cap. Since then they've been good, but not great.

GMDM did a great job for quite some time picking through the reclamation bin hunting for bargains. He has not done a good job managing his head coach or the development of our young players. How much of this is bowing to Tippett's opinion and how much Maloney is on the page I do not know. It's also possible that Maloney wanted more kids on the roster and would have done it if he could afford it. Only the owners and the bean counters know that. I'm sure the owners will weigh that in their decision to keep him/them or go a different direction.

 

[KG]

Yeah. He is playing against fully grown men though. But either of them would truly be a franchise ticket-selling player, like JR or Tkachuk were, except even better.

 

[CC96]

The actual scary thing is that a talent like McDavid (gentle reminder he has 25 points through 9 games) could be a franchise saver.

Excatly, not to mention he would be huge in terms of increasing the franchise's exposure to casual fans and the hockey media at large. I mean look at how much attention Crosby and Stamkos get in both the US and Canadian hockey media.

 

[CC96]

Yeah. He is playing against fully grown men though. But either of them would truly be a franchise ticket-selling player, like JR or Tkachuk were, except even better.

Bingo. Superstar players create fans. JR and Tkachuk were the reason my older brother and I switched allegiances from the Red Wings to the Coyotes in the inaugural season. (Wings were the best team in NHL 97 for the Sega Genesis).

 

[XX]

He is playing against fully grown men though.

This has become less relevant post original lockout.

Skill players are protected in this league now to a point where being weak on your skates could arguably be an advantage. I'm not really interested in how he plays against some dudebro who lifts way too much that plays for a school that has few NHLers on its roster. It is an ideal place to develop D, but less than ideal for forwards. Offense is about reps and you just flat out get more of it in the CHL.

 

[_Del_]

Bingo. Superstar players create fans. JR and Tkachuk were the reason my older brother and I switched allegiances from the Red Wings to the Coyotes in the inaugural season. (Wings were the best team in NHL 97 for the Sega Genesis).

I went from full-time Hawks fan to split allegiance in large part because the trade for JR that offseason. Otherwise, I probably would have treated the new home team the same way I treat the Devils. They're my "eastern conference" team that I follow casually.

 

[Jakey53]

You really don't pay attention to anything anyone says do you? Nor do you watch prospects closely. Gormley is going to peak as a possible 3-4 d-man? And again you try to prove a point by saying if he was good enough he would be on the roster even though many on here have been trying to enlighten a few of you guys as to the obvious error in player selection?

He should be on the roster. The problem is that DT does not like playing rookies. They are almost always call ups due to injuries.

... and again with the stupid Oiler comparison. How many times has it been pointed out we expected a couple rookie players to make it. No one is asking for all of them to make the team. We are asking that the GM do what he said he would do -- yes GMDM said we needed to inject youth into this roster -- and start seeing what we have in our prospects and get rid of some of the old complacent players as he said he would.

It's maddening how closed minded some people are.

He has a right to his opinion as do you. Gormley may be nothing better that a 3-4 Dman. You as a fan may think Gormley should be on the roster but as of now, management thinks different and I trust DM and DT over any poster on these boards. If DM and DT fail, they will be fired, as will other coaches and GM's in this league. Just because someone does not agree with your point of view does not make him or her closed minded.

 

[MIGs Dog]

We are 2-2 after 4 games. Looking at the schedule before hand, this is what I would have expected. If you guys expected any better after 4 games, your expectations were a lot higher than mine. Stay off ledges.

If Gormley wants out, so what, he has zero leverage. If we can make a good trade, we should trade him because it makes sense, not because he is complaining. We don't know that he wants out or is complaining. I am not against trading him because I suspect he will be a bottom pairing D with 3-4 upside. We should trade him if some team thinks he can still be a top pairing D. If he was that good, next OEL, or could be that good, how did he not beat out one of our world beaters, Schlemko/Summers/Murphy? He is not 18 or 19, he is 22, so his development is slow, if you think he is going to be a stud number 1 D.

I for one am glad that DM (he is not MacT) does not force Tip (he is not Eakins) to play young guys, it never works. Hopefully the new owner has some money to spend, because that is what we really need, more established players, not rookies.

The best thing any manager can do is realize when they have made a mistake and correct it. Ribs was a mistake but we got rid of him quickly rather then trying to defend the signing to ownership. Same thing with Lombardi and Sullivan.

DM and Tip are highly regarded and would be out of a job for 24 hours or less if they get fired. Dm has had a limited budget and mostly makes prudent decisions. He has not been fleeced on a trade. If you guys think we should fire DM, fire Tip, and play all the young guys, we will be the Oilers, and maybe go 5+ years before we sniff the playoffs again. Remember, we missed by 2 points last year, we were close.

Word