2014 - 2015 Coyotes Roster Part 6

[rt]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/lots-of-uncertainty-ahead-for-coyotes-vermette/

Some quotes from Don Maloney:

I'd go ahead and Fire him. His strategy is to remain perpetually mediocre. He's now come right out and said it. We will pick 12th overall for the next ten years in a row with how Maloney and Tippett approach running a team.

This league needs to remove the loser point, and ditch the artificial parity that comes with it. It might make Maloney open his eyes a little.

 

[rt]

Call me crazy, but sweeps and first round exits don't do much for the fans. Being respectable does. Playing entertaining hockey does. Yeah, Tippett could probably trap his way to the playoffs with a hot enough goalie and enough of his favorite bums. That shouldn't be the goal here.

The goal should be long-term, sustained success. That only comes from a core of homegrown talent. Look around the division.

This franchise should be savants of drafting and development. The market and economics call for it. This team should be the first one to jettison veteran burnouts overboard in favor of youth, energy, and potential. When you're at the bottom of the payroll scale, that needs to be your MO.

Instead, you get to watch Dave Moss take regular shifts because "he's a good guy" and "we need to make the playoffs". Shortsighted to say the least.

I totally agree.

 

[KG]

I'd go ahead and Fire him. His strategy is to remain perpetually mediocre. He's now come right out and said it. We will pick 12th overall for the next ten years in a row with how Maloney and Tippett approach running a team.

This league needs to remove the loser point, and ditch the artificial parity that comes with it. It might make Maloney open his eyes a little.

How do you extrapolate all of that from what was said in the article. What team wouldn't want to keep Vermette and Vrbata? We shouldn't be trying to be bad on purpose, and I don't blame GMDM for wanting to win. It's due to circumstance that we do suck.

We will try and make the playoffs, because playoffs is good for attendence. If we're out by the trade deadline though, there will be change.

What we need to worry about is if we're still on the bubble- because then GMDM might try to add rather than sell.

 

[KG]

I agree from a hockey standpoint that rebuilding is logical.

I'm not sure the fanbase can sustain it. This franchise might literally need McEichel to be saved.

 

[MIGs Dog]

We will try and make the playoffs, because playoffs is good for attendence.

It's also good to establish a winning culture, even if it might be an early playoff exit. Winning is contagious. If you have ever been part of a sports (or business) program that just expects to win you know what I mean. The players expect to win, the fans expect to win, management expects to win, and more times than not you do win, not always, but often.

I don't want to be associated with a team that doesn't expect to win. Does not mean that you won't make moves at the trade deadline that better position the team for the future, but that is still months away, so all I'm thinking about right now is winning.

 

[rt]

The fanbase can't be sustained by perpetual mediocrity. We know that for a fact. Look at the last two decades for proof. We will never just accidentally become a contender by recycling the same **** for the same result year after year after year. Barely scraping into the post season and quickly being dispatched by a properly built team does NOTHING for our franchise in either the short term or the long term.

 

[cobra427]

How do you extrapolate all of that from what was said in the article. What team wouldn't want to keep Vermette and Vrbata? We shouldn't be trying to be bad on purpose, and I don't blame GMDM for wanting to win. It's due to circumstance that we do suck.

We will try and make the playoffs, because playoffs is good for attendence. If we're out by the trade deadline though, there will be change.

What we need to worry about is if we're still on the bubble- because then GMDM might try to add rather than sell.

All the speculation and BS articles that have been published are the result of a slow start and a new owner. Did you guys watch the video of Gosbee? He said they are on the same page with Barroway. There is almost zero chance DM/Tip get shot this year.

There are no guarantees we could tank far enough to draft the player we want anyway, so an intentional tank might not work even if we tried it. I am not sure how much one player would help draw fans anyway. No team has 2, better and more dynamic D, than Yandle and OEL. Why not promote them both? I think it is about winning and making the playoffs, that is what creates a buzz and draws fans to the team.

As for this season, I agree with the post above, we will try and make the playoffs. By the TDL, if we are way out of it, we can sell assets then and see where we land in the lottery. The problem is that 8 other teams will be trying to "out tank" us. Even if we some how landed the first pick, we will always be under dogs because our payroll will never match the big market teams. That won't change, ever.

 

[KG]

Many of us seemed fine when we were making the playoffs.

There's also the very realistic chance we don't get McDavid or Eichel even if we tank.

 

[KG]

Most of us here are smart. The casual fan sees the playoffs and think that equals success.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Many of us seemed fine when we were making the playoffs.

There's also the very realistic chance we don't get McDavid or Eichel even if we tank.

Nope, there isn't, but if we finish bottom 5, we're assured of getting a 1st line center. McDavid/Eichel/Stome/Barzal/Zacha

Given that even if the 6th won the lottery, Hanifin & Kylington exist somewhere in there, but we come out with at least a 1st line center.

it would be better to have the 2 franchise players for sure, but Strome is a plug-n-play 1st line center and Zacha will need a year or two and Barzal will need 2 or 3...but they are all 1st line C material, with which we've never had

 

[CC96]

Maloney is stupid. This team needs a rebuild.

A good number of the important players from our trip to the WCF run are gone. Whitney, Vrbata, Gordon, Torres, Klesla, Rozsival, Aucoin, Morris, plus more. Add in the fact that Smith hasn't been able to catch lightning in a bottle again, and that Doan and all the other remaining players are two years older, and that gives you a recipe for mediocrity.

Does Maloney really think we can make the playoffs with this patchwork roster? The only hypothetical way I can see us making the playoffs, is if Barroway comes in and gives a ton of extra money to spend on the roster (extremely unlikely), and Maloney then foolishly trades a good amount of our prospects/picks for good veteran players. Even then, we would probably be first round flameouts at best. Again, this team needs a rebuild.

 

[MIGs Dog]

There's also the very realistic chance we don't get McDavid or Eichel even if we tank.

totally agree

 

[MIGs Dog]

Nope, there isn't, but if we finish bottom 5, we're assured of getting a 1st line center. McDavid/Eichel/Stome/Barzal/Zacha

There are no assurances that any of those players are first line centers, regardless of how well they look in juniors.

Do we need a thread covering biggest draft busts of all time?

 

[KG]

GMDM clearly wants to emulate the Detroit model where you're competitive every year while developing prospects. Too bad we're not nearly as good as drafting or developing

 

[CC96]

GMDM clearly wants to emulate the Detroit model where you're competitive every year while developing prospects. Too bad we're not nearly as good as drafting or developing

Or competing.

 

[MIGs Dog]

GMDM clearly wants to emulate the Detroit model where you're competitive every year while developing prospects. Too bad we're not nearly as good as drafting or developing

GMDM has been with the Yotes since 07, so yes, maybe we should expect more. I think we could have some great talent coming up in the next couple of years; Domi and Perlini being the two that jump out most.

Wasn't Turris the first guy Maloney drafted? I'm not putting that one on the Don.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

There's also the very realistic chance we don't get McDavid or Eichel even if we tank.

The Arizona Coyotes tanking is like a near-broke hobo going into a casino hoping to parlay his last five bucks into a million by winning the big slot machine prize.

The amount of risk the franchise would have to take in the hopes of getting McDavid with low odds and no guarantees is tremendous. A healthier, more entrenched team like Buffalo? Maybe. Not us.

 

[indczn]

The point is to turn current assets into future assets so the future team is better than it would otherwise be. The side effect is that the current team sucks a little more and has a higher draft pick, while giving younger players the opportunity to play in the nhl.

Even if we don't suck enough to get McEichel, we will:
- Trade old dead weight for picks
- Have picks to trade up or draft more players, some which may pan out
- Give playing time to young players to learn the nhl speed when it doesn't particularly matter
- Still have a high draft pick which may turn out (albeit with a lower probability than McEichel.
- Save money on salaries.

Unfortunately, its too early in the season yet to do what needs to be done. Instead, I fear that GMDM will throw more assets into this cesspool because its early and there is theoretically time to turn it around, even though its futile. The games only get more difficult as the season goes on. We haven't had any injuries yet.

Also, casual fans aren't as dumb as some of you are making them out to be. They follow other sports.

 

[CC96]

It's much more realistically achievable for us to start rebuilding and draft McDavid/Eichel, or even a quality center like Strome, Zacha, etc. than it is for us to make the playoffs.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It's much more realistically achievable for us to start rebuilding and draft McDavid/Eichel, or even a quality center like Strome, Zacha, etc. than it is for us to make the playoffs.

In theory and on paper, I agree with you on this.

However, we are precisely 12 games into an 82-game season. While the vultures in the hockey media would love to see us present our carcass to be picked over, we're still not dead yet.

 

[IPreferPi]

There are no assurances that any of those players are first line centers, regardless of how well they look in juniors.

Do we need a thread covering biggest draft busts of all time?

Scouting is a hell of a lot different today than in the Alexander Daigle days. Prospects are wrung through a fine tooth comb and any perceived character red flags are discussed ad nauseum.

Of course there are no guarantees, but given their unprecedented production and McDavid's getting granted exceptional player status by Hockey Canada at the tender age of 15 (joining only Tavares and Aaron Ekblad), McDavid and Eichel look to be real deals. Strome, Zacha, and Barzal are less likely to be superstars, but as of now they are still potential 1Cs worth building around for the future.

 

[KG]

All because GMDM says he wants to make the playoffs, doesn't mean we won't sell if we are out of contention by TDL. He sold the lockout year.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Scouting is a hell of a lot different than in the Alexander Daigle days. Prospects are winged through a fine tooth comb and any perceived character red flags are discussed ad nauseum.

Yes, that's very true. BUT - and this is important - if you know anything about business or have been in the military, it is a fact of human nature that many people who flourish or excel at one level can end up being wholly useless when promoted upwards.

McDavid is probably not one of those people, but everyone below him, I'd wager, runs that risk.

Now, having said that, the converse is also true - there is always the possibility that there are sleepers in the lower rounds of the draft. I'd argue that the additional scouting money and resources IceArizona have devoted are aimed precisely at this demographic, as well as the ranks of undrafted players.

If the team is going to gamble, it certainly is a lower-risk proposition to exploit market inefficiencies in the draft than taking the "No Honor for Connor" route.

 

[CC96]

In theory and on paper, I agree with you on this.

However, we are precisely 12 games into an 82-game season. While the vultures in the hockey media would love to see us present our carcass to be picked over, we're still not dead yet.

Normally, I might agree with you but I don't have much faith in this roster at all.

 

[IPreferPi]

.
If the team is going to gamble, it certainly is a lower-risk proposition to exploit market inefficiencies in the draft than taking the "No Honor for Connor" route.

I agree with the need to find and develop lower-round gems. But irrespective of scouting budget, the raw probabilities of drafting even NHL regulars outside the 1st simply pale in comparison to how often a top 5 draft pick is a hit.