Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster building thread - Part VII

[Fire Shero*]

Bull****, the Pens can win a cup just like any other team. Even with Scuderi on the roster, we could afford Jokinen at $3.5 million, Kulemin at $3.25 million, Sutter at $3.5 million, Despres at $1 million and run with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Neal
Jokinen-Malkin-Kulemin
Bennett-Sutter-Dupuis
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Scuderi
Despres-Bortuzzo

Fleury-Zatkoff

That team would have $5.4 million to fill the 4th line and 3 depth positions. That team has just as good of a shot at the cup as any other team. We can do that with Scuderi on the roster. What if we manage to trade him? It becomes even better. To say we can't win a cup next year is ridiculous.

I'm not even sure they would either want him or he would waive to go to the Islanders. It's not like they're going to be a contender anytime soon. We could still contend with him on the roster.

That is pretty much the same lineup, at least the top 6, as the roster this year.

Malkin gets to play with Kulemin and Jokinen? Gross.

That roster that you came up with is not a legit contender roster.

Crosby gets to play with 2 leeches and Malkin gets to play with two bottom six forwards.

If that is our roster, I will be watching fewer games this season than last year. Once I saw Shero's off-season disaster moves a year ago, I knew it would be a wasted season.

Let's hope Rutherford can make BIG changes before October. We DO need sweeping changes. Not a tweak here and there.

 

[themethod7]

Bull****, the Pens can win a cup just like any other team. Even with Scuderi on the roster, we could afford Jokinen at $3.5 million, Kulemin at $3.25 million, Sutter at $3.5 million, Despres at $1 million and run with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Neal
Jokinen-Malkin-Kulemin
Bennett-Sutter-Dupuis
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Scuderi
Despres-Bortuzzo

Fleury-Zatkoff

That team would have $5.4 million to fill the 4th line and 3 depth positions. That team has just as good of a shot at the cup as any other team. We can do that with Scuderi on the roster. What if we manage to trade him? It becomes even better. To say we can't win a cup next year is ridiculous.

I'm not even sure they would either want him or he would waive to go to the Islanders. It's not like they're going to be a contender anytime soon. We could still contend with him on the roster.

He didn't say we can't win the cup next year, he said it's unlikely, and to be perfectly honest, he's right. With Sid/Geno we have a chance every year but I'm sorry, that roster will never be favored over LA or Chicago in a 7 game series, not to mention that they'd have to get past Boston/Montreal first which is far from a guarantee. I'd rather not go ALL IN every year if the framework just isn't there. I'm sick of us robbing Peter (our future) to pay Paul (our present) with nothing to show for it. At some point you accept the fact that every team has a chance once they're in the dance, so just roll with the guys you got (e.g., Despres, Dumo, Harrington, Bennett, Megna, etc.).

 

[Shady Machine]

Actually, after thinking about it, I would be fine with 4 young D in the top-6 (or 5 in the top-7), but that means Martin and Letang can't play together. They need to anchor their own pairs. A D group of this would be fine:

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Martin
XXXX-Bortuzzo
Samuelsson

XXXX is one of Dumoulin, Pouliot or Harrington. If they can't handle it, trade for a veteran D at the deadline. We just can't have the dynamic pair of Martin-Letang if we play a bunch of young D.

Yeah that's what it should be. Maatta or Harrington are Letang's long term partner. This may be Martin's last year here, so let's give Maatta the season to learn to play with Letang. If they keep Scuds, I want him in a bottom pairing role so he is fine with Bort.

 

[Shady Machine]

I want to see all of Maatta, Despres, Bortuzzo, and Dumoulin or Harrington get consistent minutes. They should play almost every game. Philip too.

The first 3 yes. One of Dumo and Harry should get time while Maatta is out and Sammy should be the 7th D that rotates in.

 

[penguins2946*]

Of course they could. Technically any team could, but there's just too many holes to fill for this team. I just don't see it happening next year.

Also, that's pretty much the same core that has failed the past 5 years in the playoffs. How much of that was coaching? We shall see.

The core isn't the problem, the problem is that our stars aren't getting any help. The lines made by Bylsma haven't helped Malkin or Crosby at all. In both 2013 and 2014, our top-6 lines, well, all of our lines, were put together very poorly. Glass on the 3rd line, Iginla on his off wing, Bennett scratched, Gibbons on the top line, Malkin on the wing, Dupuis on the top line; all of those are prime examples on how much Bylsma butchered this team. The team does need tweaks, but it's not the big problem here. How the players are used is the big problem.

He didn't say we can't win the cup next year, he said it's unlikely, and to be perfectly honest, he's right. With Sid/Geno we have a chance every year but I'm sorry, that roster will never be favored over LA or Chicago in a 7 game series, not to mention that they'd have to get past Boston/Montreal first which is far from a guarantee. I'd rather not go ALL IN every year if the framework just isn't there. I'm sick of us robbing Peter (our future) to pay Paul (our present) with nothing to show for it. At some point you accept the fact that every team has a chance once they're in the dance, so just roll with the guys you got (e.g., Despres, Dumo, Harrington, Bennett, Megna, etc.).

Crosby and Malkin will only be in their primes for so long. Throwing away a year isn't an option. We should be going for the cup every single season. I have no idea why there is such a large group on here that doesn't think that way. It's a cup or failure at this point.

My lineup has us adding Kulemin and making better lines. That's it. It's not an earth shattering change, but that lineup is good. Hell, let Jokinen walk and spend a little more to bring in a better option (Vrbata maybe?). This roster is easily fixable.

On the topic of letting our young players play, I fully intend on that. Megna on the 4th line, Bennett on the 3rd, Despres on the 3rd pair (2nd if we could move Scuderi), Maatta on the 2nd pair (1st pair if we move Scuderi), and Harrington on the bottom pair if we move Scuderi. I'd also look at Zolnierczyk on the 4th line if possible. We shouldn't be spending prospects and picks at the deadline for quick fixes, I agree with that. However, there's no justification to not try to spend in free agency to improve the roster.

 

[Asuna]

The core isn't the problem, the problem is that our stars aren't getting any help. The lines made by Bylsma haven't helped Malkin or Crosby at all. In both 2013 and 2014, our top-6 lines, well, all of our lines, were put together very poorly. Glass on the 3rd line, Iginla on his off wing, Bennett scratched, Gibbons on the top line, Malkin on the wing, Dupuis on the top line; all of those are prime examples on how much Bylsma butchered this team. The team does need tweaks, but it's not the big problem here. How the players are used is the big problem.

When your core does nothing for 5 years....it just may be part of the problem.

But yes, I agree coaching was a big part of the problem.

 

[Billy Crawford]

Is it a wide spread opinion that Kunitz-Sid/Geno-Neal is not really a good line? I know they're leeches when they're playing on different lines but I think that when paired together they've always done very well with Geno and Sid. I'm not saying I absolutely want them paired together, but if they are I'd be fine with them as the 1st line wingers.

 

[themethod7]

Crosby and Malkin will only be in their primes for so long. Throwing away a year isn't an option. We should be going for the cup every single season. I have no idea why there is such a large group on here that doesn't think that way. It's a cup or failure at this point.

My lineup has us adding Kulemin and making better lines. That's it. It's not an earth shattering change, but that lineup is good. Hell, let Jokinen walk and spend a little more to bring in a better option (Vrbata maybe?). This roster is easily fixable.

On the topic of letting our young players play, I fully intend on that. Megna on the 4th line, Bennett on the 3rd, Despres on the 3rd pair (2nd if we could move Scuderi), Maatta on the 2nd pair (1st pair if we move Scuderi), and Harrington on the bottom pair if we move Scuderi. I'd also look at Zolnierczyk on the 4th line if possible. We shouldn't be spending prospects and picks at the deadline for quick fixes, I agree with that. However, there's no justification to not try to spend in free agency to improve the roster.

See I agree with that whole third paragraph, but it somewhat contradicts the bolded in your first paragraph. We're in agreement that we shouldn't be throwing away prospects/picks for guys like Morrow or Murray, but how does that jive with your attitude of CUP OR BUST?? I think there's a middle ground there between throwing in the towel and going all in, where we build the best roster possible without giving up our future for short term fixes, and that means giving significant time to our young guys who are ready to be full-time NHLers. At that point, yeah you still have a great roster that's a lock for the playoffs, but you're not going to be favored over any of the powerhouses in the west. Can we beat them in a 7 game series? Sure, it's a definite possibility, but it's not realistic to expect the cup in that scenario and anything less is a failure.

 

[penguins2946*]

When your core does nothing for 5 years....it just may be part of the problem.

But yes, I agree coaching was a big part of the problem.

We need to make tweaks to help our stars and let the young players play. We don't need an overhaul.

Is it a wide spread opinion that Kunitz-Sid/Geno-Neal is not really a good line? I know they're leeches when they're playing on different lines but I think that when paired together they've always done very well with Geno and Sid. I'm not saying I absolutely want them paired together, but if they are I'd be fine with them as the 1st line wingers.

I want Kunitz-Crosby-Neal to be our top line. Put the best scorer with the best playmaker and tell Kunitz to play like a grinder. I'd want to sign Kulemin or someone like Kulemin for one of Malkin's wings and get a scorer for his other wing (Jokinen, Vrbata, Moulson, and Michalek would all be good options). Kulemin-Malkin-Vrbata would be a great 2nd line, and it's definitely possible.

See I agree with that whole third paragraph, but it somewhat contradicts the bolded in your first paragraph. We're in agreement that we shouldn't be throwing away prospects/picks for guys like Morrow or Murray, but how does that jive with your attitude of CUP OR BUST?? I think there's a middle ground there between throwing in the towel and going all in, where we build the best roster possible without giving up our future for short term fixes, and that means giving significant time to our young guys who are ready to be full-time NHLers. At that point, yeah you still have a great roster that's a lock for the playoffs, but you're not going to be favored over any of the powerhouses in the west. Can we beat them in a 7 game series? Sure, it's a definite possibility, but it's not realistic to expect the cup in that scenario and anything less is a failure.

My point was that we shouldn't have to make moves at the deadline, because we should be addressing our issues in free agency. If we could do a 4th for Guerin trade or a 7th for Kovalev trade at the deadline, you obviously do that. You don't do the 1st and prospects for Iginla or Morrow for Morrow. It is cup or bust, but the deadline should not play a factor in that. Our holes should be filled in free agency or internally. We shouldn't do a 3rd for Stempniak, because we shouldn't need Stempniak. That spot should have been filled already.

I get injuries and how we will be missing some of our top-9 forwards, but we shouldn't be spending a premium on quick fixes for the year. Get a Penner like player for a 5th or so or let Megna or someone like that slide up in the lineup.

 

[themethod7]

Is it a wide spread opinion that Kunitz-Sid/Geno-Neal is not really a good line? I know they're leeches when they're playing on different lines but I think that when paired together they've always done very well with Geno and Sid. I'm not saying I absolutely want them paired together, but if they are I'd be fine with them as the 1st line wingers.

I'd be fine moving Kunitz back with Geno/Neal, KMN was money in the bank there for awhile, the problem is filling the spots on Sid's line. I know Neal is pretty much a lock for Geno's wing, but if we were to bring in Kulemin, I'd also be fine rolling Kunitz - Sid - Neal and Kulemin - Geno - Bennett.

So to answer your question, yes I think Kunitz/Neal can be effective on the same line with either Sid or Geno. I'll add though that I would like to see both shake the whole "leech" label they (rightly or wrongly) have earned over the past year or two. Both are capable of playing a strong two-way "power forward lite" game, but they've each drifted away from that for whatever reason, and I'm hoping the new coach can get them back to playing that way.

 

[mrzeigler]

It's June 12. Why I have not heard a peep on the question on everyone's mind: Will Dana Heinze be back as equipment manager? I really enjoyed hearing how he fooled the players into thinking away games actually were played in CEC.

 

[Fedex26]

Does anybody have any input on some good european FA's that could come in and play 3rd/4th line rolls effectively and cheaply? We really need to explore all our options.

 

[penguins2946*]

Does anybody have any input on some good european FA's that could come in and play 3rd/4th line rolls effectively and cheaply? We really need to explore all our options.

Komarov and Sekac are 2 that are generating some interest. Sekac has a bunch of max ELC offers (don't know if that means $925,000 or $3.775 million), and Komarov has priced himself out of Toronto. I'd go hard after Sekac.

 

[gdsmack267]

How would you guys feel about Troy Brouwer? Physical winger who can play a 2nd/3rd line role who can put u[ 20 goals/40 points

 

[Shady Machine]

How would you guys feel about Troy Brouwer? Physical winger who can play a 2nd/3rd line role who can put u[ 20 goals/40 points

How are we getting him?

 

[Riptide]

Bennett is not ****, but he also hasn't shown much chemistry with Crosby. Also I wish the Kane dream would die; it would take overpayment (Neal+).

Bennett also hasn't been able to show that he can produce in the top 6 and relying on him especially coming off a surgery and rehab seems risky.

Also where are you moving Neal to get two Nhl-ready young forwards one of whom could play in the top 6?

Edmonton, Minny, Detroit, Dallas, LA, Ottawa, Anaheim, Stl, could all be realistic targets depending on how things play out, and what direction they (and Pit) want to go in.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

Trade idea that I thought through for about 30 seconds and did not consider the salary cap:

Letang/Bennett
for
Faulk/Skinner/1st

 

[Black Label]

Does anybody have any input on some good european FA's that could come in and play 3rd/4th line rolls effectively and cheaply? We really need to explore all our options.

I really don't think there are a whole lot of players that play in Europe that could go to the NHL and step right into a 3rd or 4th line role. That said, ever since he went undrafted last year Viktor Arvidsson is a player that I thought could do really well in the NHL.

He played with Sundqvist on a stacked SAIK team this year and put up 40 points in 50 games. He is only 5'9" so people will complain that he is doesn't fix our size problem in the bottom 6. His offensive skills combined with his insane work rate could really improve the 4th line. I'm almost certain that if he was 6'+ he would have been a 3rd or 4th round pick last year.

 

[themethod7]

Trade idea that I thought through for about 30 seconds and did not consider the salary cap:

Letang/Bennett
for
Faulk/Skinner/1st

Probably should've given it more than 30 seconds.

 

[penguins2946*]

Trade idea that I thought through for about 30 seconds and did not consider the salary cap:

Letang/Bennett
for
Faulk/Skinner/1st

Let's just say that be happy Canes fans won't see this. Assuming Letang's value equals Skinner's (it doesn't, Skinner is slightly more valuable), that leaves it Faulk and a 1st for Bennett. Yeah, that's bad.

 

[IcedCapp]

Probably should've given it more than 30 seconds.

okay, I thought about it for 35 seconds


Letang/Bennett/3rd
for
Faulk/Skinner/1st

 

[Fedex26]

I think the idea was briefly discussed some time ago in this thread, but what was the general consensus on Milan Michalek? After a down year maybe we can get him at an affordable price? Has worked well with pass first centers in the past.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

What do people think about a "Martin - Scuderi" pairing? With a new coach and system hopefully that turns scuds into LA Scuds, and Martin seems to fix anyone he plays with (ex. Letang, Orpik)...

Maatta Letang (pair of the future)
Martin Scuderi (vet shutdown hopefully)
Despres Bortuzzo (young and physical)
Samuelsson

Despres plays with Tanger until Maatta comes back. Dumo or Sammy with Bort. Thoughts...

 

[Riptide]

I'd keep Letang over Neal. Letang will improve a hell of alot more under a new coach than Neal. Letang has all the tools, he just needs someone who will keep him accountable and focus on making him into a go to guy. DB just didn't know how to coach him or Sid/Geno.

And the same doesn't apply to Neal? Hasn't the biggest ***** against Neal was his perceived effort level? Sure we ***** about his consistency, but if he was working his ass off every shift, banging bodies, playing the boards, etc, would that really matter all that much?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Edmonton, Minny, Detroit, Dallas, LA, Ottawa, Anaheim, Stl, could all be realistic targets depending on how things play out, and what direction they (and Pit) want to go in.

Yep. Anaheim is losing, Selanne.

They have four guys worth targeting, and plucking 2 of them would be great.

Not that Neal would be traded, but for giggles.

Neal for 2 of the 4 forwards Pelly, Palmieri, Etem, Silfverberg, and their 2nd.

I'm sure the RFA's (Silfverberge - Pelly) would pobably be one half of the package coming back, so...which of the two left makes sense? Etem seems like the logical choice. He's RFA sooner than Palmieri.

My prefered choice would be Silfverberg, Etem, 2nd 2014.

We have nobody to block these guys from being top six wingers if Neal is sent the other way.