Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster building thread - Part VII

[IcedCapp]

It was really only this last season that Despres was getting royally screwed ... he was at least getting the occasional kiss before then, so maybe he doesn't have an answer for you?

He could at least break up with me in person

 

[Hottubber]

Boyle's gonna get like 2+ million.

And the team that signs him for that will regret very quickly. But I agree with you that he will get that

 

[Ugene Magic]

went chipped chopped until 3 weeks ago.

This should read: "Was chippier, hammier, until 3 weeks ago.

 

[OrrNumber4]

That's a pretty bad deal for the Pens. Pavelski vs Letang is a wash. So you are asking for Despres AND Bennett for Demers. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Ah. I don't at all consider Pavelski and Letang a wash. Given Letang's contract and injury history....

 

[Riptide]

I literally can't give enough reasons on why playing all of our D prospects next year is a terrible idea. Give me 1 team that won a cup that had 4 or more D under 100 games in their career. You let the D earn their spots in the NHL. You don't trade away players to give it to them.



Fine put Scuderi on the 2RD spot. Or better yet, trade him and sign a D like Stralman for similar or less. We can't have 5 rookie D and contend.

Stralman with the playoffs he's had will almost certainly get 3.5m over 3-4 yrs. However I'd want him before I want Scuderi.

 

[Ugene Magic]

And the team that signs him for that will regret very quickly. But I agree with you that he will get that

They won't regret it if they have the complimentary pieces on each side of him. Every player needs to have the right fit.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Ah. I don't at all consider Pavelski and Letang a wash. Given Letang's contract and injury history....

Given Pav's age and the fact we're trying to shed salary... Him at 6.0 isn't really fixing things for us at the 3rd line C-position.

 

[vyktor]

Seeing as though they are basically all gone, I can say for a fact that the Penguins past regime:

Loved Harrington and Letang.

Had a trade already lined up to move Martin if they signed Suter.

Hated Tangradi's attitude

Thought Pouliot, when drafted, was nothing like Letang.

Were very low on Niskanen and high on Engelland(High as in, he was a great 5/6 Dman)(This was two years ago and they brought Engelland up through the system.)

Thought Crosby needed speed,speed,speed on his line. That is why Dupuis was always there and why Gibbons was there as well. "Had to keep up with Crosby, who else are you going to pick besides Pascal?"

Ray and Dan were not buddy/buddy. That is why I find it funny that some outlets say "Ray will bring Dan where ever he goes". Not exactly true.

Thought Jordan was showing off in the Philly series instead of playing defense to get paid. Already cashed out.

Always figured it was an off ice issue with Tangradi, what about Despres?

Why'd he bring him back after 2 embarrassing playoff series then?

I would bet it's similar to the reason they still don't have a coach now, who was out there last year that was a slam dunk to be better than DB, I mean I know some of you think anyone would be better, but there's not a lot of awesome coaches available.

 

[penguins2946*]

Stralman with the playoffs he's had will almost certainly get 3.5m over 3-4 yrs. However I'd want him before I want Scuderi.

I'd prefer Stralman over Scuderi easily as well, but neither would be on my dream lineup. That dream lineup is:

Kunitz (3.85)-Crosby (8.7)-Neal (5)
Kulemin (3.25)-Malkin (9.5)-Vrbata (4.25)
Bennett (.9)-Sutter (3.5)-Dupuis (3.75)
Boyle (2.5)-Goc (2.25)-Megna (.75)
Sill (.6)/Adams (.7)

Maatta (.9)-Letang (7.25)
Despres (1)-Martin (5)
Harrington (.6)-Bortuzzo (.6)

Niemi (3.8)-Zatkoff (.6)

Total: $69.2 million

I was doing this on capgeek, but my power went out so I had to do it here. Those are a rough estimation of cap hits.

 

[Riptide]

Despres has never played the right side in the pros, but I think he did in juniors. I never understood why that was such an issue with D though. I would get another RHD to play on the 2nd pair if we got rid of Scuderi. Someone like Franson or Stralman.

Actually, I do want to start playing Despres on the right side. With Maatta and Pouliot, the future LD in the top-4 are taken up. If Despres plays on the right, that would give us a top-4 of Maatta-Letang and Pouliot-Despres, which is extremely dynamic and balanced. So I wouldn't object to Despres playing on the right side of the 2nd pair after Maatta comes back. If I do that, I would still want to get a veteran D to play on the bottom pair.

What about someone like Mark Fayne or Gilbert. Both are righties with some size. Fayne would likely sign for less than 2.5m on a 2/3 yr deal, while Gilbert would likely want closer to 3.5m on a 2-3 yr deal. However either should be serviceable, and if need be could be moved as long as they don't stink the joint out.

Unless we're going to split up Martin and Letang. If that's the case, then wait until closer to the TD to find a vet D to shore up the blueline.

Maatta - Martin
Despres - Letang
Dumo/Sammy - Bort

 

[Riptide]

Of course they could. Technically any team could, but there's just too many holes to fill for this team. I just don't see it happening next year.

Also, that's pretty much the same core that has failed the past 5 years in the playoffs. How much of that was coaching? We shall see.

What do you mean too many holes?! That lineup you quoted has 1 FA signing and 1 UFA who said he'd like to stay. And it has the money to sign someone like Goc for the 4th line, with a pair of decent wingers, with money left over.

 

[Coach Travis]

I'd prefer Stralman over Scuderi easily as well, but neither would be on my dream lineup. That dream lineup is:

Kunitz (3.85)-Crosby (8.7)-Neal (5)
Kulemin (3.25)-Malkin (9.5)-Vrbata (4.25)
Bennett (.9)-Sutter (3.5)-Dupuis (3.75)
Boyle (2.5)-Goc (2.25)-Megna (.75)
Sill (.6)/Adams (.7)

Maatta (.9)-Letang (7.25)
Despres (1)-Martin (5)
Harrington (.6)-Bortuzzo (.6)

Niemi (3.8)-Zatkoff (.6)

Total: $69.2 million

I was doing this on capgeek, but my power went out so I had to do it here. Those are a rough estimation of cap hits.

Very nice. Only change I'd make is switch out Vrbata for Grabovski.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Who takes Maatta's place while he is out?

 

[penguins2946*]

Very nice. Only change I'd make is switch out Vrbata for Grabovski.

Grabovski has never been a winger, so that's a no. Vrbata would be dynamite along Malkin. He has 67 goals and 141 points over his last 191 games (29 goal and 61 point pace over 82 games) with linemates like Whitney, Ribero, and Hanzal. What would he do on Malkin's line? He has also been extremely durable, he has played in 352 of 376 games since the start of the 09-10 season (94% of the games). The only issue anyone could have with him is that he's going to be 33 tomorrow.

Who takes Maatta's place while he is out?

Despres moves up, Bortuzzo on the 2nd pair with Martin and Harrington-Samuelsson as the bottom pair? Or possibly recall Dumoulin or give Pouliot (if he's healthy) a shot? Or sign a veteran D that will be in the AHL unless injuries strike to play on the bottom pair? We had worse last year.

 

[MrBurghundy]

It's more than just his playing time.

I just can't stand that he was made to feel like he had an important voice in the room even though he was next to useless no matter how much or little ice time he got.

The reason to buy him out is to simply not have him on the roster anymore. They have 2 buyouts available to them and since they're not going to use them on any big money players, they may as well get rid of SOME of the dead weight.

If that piece of **** is still on the roster come October, to me it'll be as if NOTHING has changed.

Dominic Moore, Dan Boyle and Mike Brown should be targets for the bottom six.

Have you heard JR's press conference yet? He basically trashed our 4th line and Adams in particular.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Always figured it was an off ice issue with Tangradi, what about Despres?


I would bet it's similar to the reason they still don't have a coach now, who was out there last year that was a slam dunk to be better than DB, I mean I know some of you think anyone would be better, but there's not a lot of awesome coaches available.

When you follow up that circus philly series with scoring 2 goals the entire boston series, the coach has to go. I don't care if he's a combo of Bowman and Arbour.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Have you heard JR's press conference yet? He basically trashed our 4th line and Adams in particular.

No, I just read all the snippets from it. Honestly, I was so disappointed in the hiring I didn't want to hear him. I saw that he griped about the 4th line, but I missed him saying something about Adams in particular.

All I know is if Scuderi and Adams are still on this roster come October, the Penguins have Britta'd another off-season.

And for the people who don't get that reference, screw you for getting a great show cancelled.

 

[Will Hunting]

Very nice. Only change I'd make is switch out Vrbata for Grabovski.

Yeah, that lineup is not bad but I also had a problem with Vrbata. He´s getting old and Phoenix is kinda mysterious offensive team. They are producing somehow but I´m generally sceptical about their players for some reason (just having that weird feeling). Switch Vrbata to Cammalleri (under 5M please) and it´s better. I would also strongly consider guy like Benoit Pouliot, but Shero should pull the trigger on him a long ago. Might be too late now.

 

[MrBurghundy]

No, I just read all the snippets from it. Honestly, I was so disappointed in the hiring I didn't want to hear him. I saw that he griped about the 4th line, but I missed him saying something about Adams in particular.

All I know is if Scuderi and Adams are still on this roster come October, the Penguins have Britta'd another off-season.

And for the people who don't get that reference, screw you for getting a great show cancelled.

You really need to hear him talk. It's extremely refreshing. He sounds like somebody who has been posting on these forums for a while, fed up with how the team was run at all levels. It may change your mind or at least soften your stance.

 

[penguins2946*]

Yeah, that lineup is not bad but I also had a problem with Vrbata. He´s getting old and Phoenix is kinda mysterious offensive team. They are producing somehow but I´m generally sceptical about their players for some reason (just having that weird feeling). Switch Vrbata to Cammalleri (under 5M please) and it´s better. I would also strongly consider guy like Benoit Pouliot, but Shero should pull the trigger on him a long ago. Might be too late now.

Cammalleri is only a year younger than Vrbata (360 days to be specific), and he has been hurt much more than Vrbata has. He has missed over 3x more games than Vrbata since the start of the 09-10 season. He hasn't played in 70 games since 08-09. He may be better, but he would cost a ton more and would miss a ton more games due to injury.

That's also very irrational to think about the Yotes' offense like that. That's a bogus reason to not pick up Vrbata.

 

[mpp9]

Boyle's gonna get like 2+ million.

If we move Sutter, Id be down signing two of Goc, Boyle, Moore. Fiddler and Winchester would be nice as well. Move on from Vitale if he's asking for a mil+ and use it on one of the above. Fill out the rest with Gibbons, Megna and Sill.

 

[eXile59]

And the team that signs him for that will regret very quickly. But I agree with you that he will get that

I was in favor of bringing him in because he is what we need but in retrospect he might be one of those guys who gets overpaid on a playoff run then becomes a tird.

No, I just read all the snippets from it. Honestly, I was so disappointed in the hiring I didn't want to hear him. I saw that he griped about the 4th line, but I missed him saying something about Adams in particular.

All I know is if Scuderi and Adams are still on this roster come October, the Penguins have Britta'd another off-season.

And for the people who don't get that reference, screw you for getting a great show cancelled.

So you didn't even hear what he said and instead immediately dismissed him? Awesome.

 

[SherogoesHAM]

Always figured it was an off ice issue with Tangradi, what about Despres?


I would bet it's similar to the reason they still don't have a coach now, who was out there last year that was a slam dunk to be better than DB, I mean I know some of you think anyone would be better, but there's not a lot of awesome coaches available.

Didnt mention much of Simon. When I said I thought he looked pretty good out there with Letang I got a "well he was playing a lot of guarded minutes." (again this is 2 years ago).

Yeah it was funny when I brought up staal and bringing him back. "his one job was to stop giroux but he was to worried about making himself look better. He knew he was moving on. Cashed out." thats why I really wonder if Shero really offered 10 years.

Tangradi was lazy and vocal. As you all know the prior staff wasnt high on rookies to begin with..

Malkin and neal are best buds and constantly making fun of one another while they play.

Were never huge fans of Z. Really pulling for Suter and supposedly pretty close.

Some personal stuff on Letang which makes you pull for the guy. Hasnt been easy for him. (again 2 years ago).

Again they see great things in Harrington.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Given Pav's age and the fact we're trying to shed salary... Him at 6.0 isn't really fixing things for us at the 3rd line C-position.

You wouldn't play him with Malkin or Crosby?

 

[KIRK]

I totally agree with you but who are you trading out?

Letang, Martin, Scuderi

Dumoulin/Harrington, Maatta, Despres, Bortuzzo, Samulesson

Even with Maatta unavailable to start, there's no reason Despres, Borts, Bobby D, and Ulfie Jr cannot be on this roster to start the year.

I think some things then are left up in the air. You figure, between Maatta coming back and maybe Harrington being ready, there's going to be some flexibility in terms of what you do.

If a great offer comes along for a Martin or a Letang, then you do it. If someone is willing to take Scuds off your hands, then you do it.

Having all those young kinds gives you flexibility. Maybe you find some short term help in free agency for value. Maybe you take care of Sid and Geno the right way and let them being put into a position to succeed cover for the kids.

The Pens are NOT a cup team. What they need to do to get there as quickly as possible is to set up Sid and Geno to succeed, to let the kids play to see exactly what you've got (maybe it's like 2006-2007, where you're further along than you would have thought), and to get the overall mix in terms of personnel and personalities better.

You know, this is why I'm not averse to letting Fleury ride it out. Will he screw us over come playoffs? Yeah, quite possibly. Will he get us regular season wins to get us to the playoffs? Yeah, probably.

Thing is-- and maybe I'm blinded by my faith in Sid and Geno-- if you do by them like Chicago has done by Toews or LA has done by Kopitar, then anything is possible. If you continue to make them, even in part, afterthoughts because you're worried about trusting one extra kid on defense and waiting to make a deal at the deadline if necessary, then it's going to be more of the same in the end.

If a deal makes sense for 2 years from now-- Neal. Martin. Letang. Whoever save Sid and Geno-- then make it. If there's a hole that a kid can't fill in the end and the team otherwise is further along than anticipated, then deal with it at the deadline. BUT, again, make that, rather than doing right by Sid and Geno, the deadline focus at long last.