Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread IV | All UFA/trade talk, speculation here

[Rufus]

To me, no way the Pens contend this year... And either Letang is traded or Geno.... (eeeek i hate to say it)

No? Absolutely not. We will contend this year and Letang is not traded and certainly not Geno

 

[Shady Machine]

http://triblive.com/mobile/7000291-96/fleury-crosby-penguins


Fleury is extremely lucky he's best friends with Sid, and this narrative that he's an elite goalie flies in this town.

Whatever. I guess the quote by JR saying Fleury will be here as long as he's here could be interpreted as if we struggle again in the playoffs, neither will be back.

That quote is so frustrating. Fleury is the opposite of calm in the net. You want to see calm? Watch Lehtonen vs Fleury in the Pens Stars game last week. Ugh come on Sid.

 

[Riptide]

To me, no way the Pens contend this year... And either Letang is traded or Geno.... (eeeek i hate to say it)

If BB steps up to solidify himself as a top 6 winger OR we make 1 winger trade for someone like Perron, Glenncross, Stewart, Stafford, Fleischmann, etc we likely become one of the top teams to come out of the east with Boston, Tampa and perhaps even NYI or WSH. I wouldn't hold my breath on the latter two, but you never know.

1 move isn't that big of an issue, considering who our centers are. JR did a lot of things right this summer. Sure they're all 1 yr deals, but who knows how things will look in 6 months. But 1 half decent trade (not even one we "win") and we're very much in the mix in the east. So looking at it that way, there's no chance JR trades Malkin, and little chance he trades Letang. The time for KL to be moved was 2 summers ago before the new contract was signed... or this last summer if the right deal was there. But without Martin and Ehrhoff having an extension there's no chance KL is traded.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Gonna sum up a few things instead of responding to a bunch of posts:

Fleury - I like the guy. I really do. I want to believe in him but he makes it so hard. Last playoffs was a good step in the right direction. He was very solid (minus that one gaffe) so maybe there is hope. If we have a better option to sign, do it. If we dont, then it is what it is. Better the devil you know? If he re-signs, 2 years @ $5.5mil. Short term to prove himself again / give time for Jarry. Slight raise.

Strewart - I have nothing against the guy but I think I like the idea of Stafford better. Stafford-Sid-Horns and Kunitz-Geno-BB/KK is a pretty solid top 6. Both lines have speed, scoring, and thoughness. It also pushes Dups on the 3rd line with Sutter, giving us a 3rd line we havent had since our cup win. Buffalo is going into firesale mode. I dont think it would cost a ton to get Stafford either. 2nd rounder, mid tier prospect and if we could dump Scuds/Adams, make it a mid-high tier prospect. You'd have to think Stafford would be amenable to re-signing here after playing in the suck that is Buffalo for so long

Martin - imo, we should move him asap. Not because he sucks, though he has been fairly medicore so far this season. We have the guys to come up and replace him. Sure the drop off is a a bit steep but its going to happen anyway. Why not let a young guy, come in, and get 3/4 of a season in to get to know the system n such. The return? Id honestly be ok with a 2nd and a high end prospect. We replace our 2nd and prospect with the ones we shipped out for Stafford. So the net loss is almost negligible but the net gain is we finally have a missing top 6 winger.


PS. Im in Ottawa, Canada. There was just a shooting of a solider at a war memorial 1 block from where I work. There are now 2 shooters inside the Parliament buildings. Jebus.

 

[Shady Machine]

Fleury will not re-sign short term. Why would he?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Fleury will not re-sign short term. Why would he?

nobody offers him a long term deal? I dunno.

What teams might be in the market for a new goalie next year?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Fleury will not re-sign short term. Why would he?

I'd say to prove a point or something, but I'd be shocked if he signed a short term deal, likewise I'd be shocked if he didn't get a raise and I'll be furious if he gets a raise.

Actually, I think he'd sign short term if no one else was giving him a better offer, which could benefit us. But do you really want a goalie no one else is really pursuing with his history?

 

[penguins2946*]

Fleury will be the best UFA goalie on the market next year. He can basically demand what he wants, because there will be a stupid team that has had shoddy goaltending that will give him that. I'd much rather sign Niemi or trade for Anderson than re-sign Fleury.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

nobody offers him a long term deal? I dunno.

What teams might be in the market for a new goalie next year?

Fleury will not re-sign short term. Why would he?

I'd say to prove a point or something, but I'd be shocked if he signed a short term deal, likewise I'd be shocked if he didn't get a raise and I'll be furious if he gets a raise.

Actually, I think he'd sign short term if no one else was giving him a better offer, which could benefit us. But do you really want a goalie no one else is really pursuing with his history?

I cant imagine there are going to be more than 4 or 5 teams inquiring on him. His troubles are well documented. He may get offered a couple of extra years at a mil more.

But he seems to like it in Pittsburgh. Built a new home. Wife, new baby. He seems like the kind of guy who would take less to stay close to home, so to speak.

Just my impression is all.

 

[cassius]

That quote is so frustrating. Fleury is the opposite of calm in the net. You want to see calm? Watch Lehtonen vs Fleury in the Pens Stars game last week. Ugh come on Sid.

It's not much better off the ice either. Apparently he was found banging his head off a wall during the Islanders post-season. It perplexes me why any NHL General Manager would want a mentally fragile guy like Fleury anchoring his squad.

Whenever the topic of Fleury comes up, HFBoards (and the Penguins brass for that matter) enter this reality distortion field. It leads to some less than objective discussions. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of how Staal was perceived around here.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

It's not much better off the ice either. Apparently he was found banging his head off a wall during the Islanders post-season. It perplexes me why any NHL General Manager would want a mentally fragile guy like Fleury anchoring his squad.

Whenever the topic of Fleury comes up, HFBoards (and the Penguins brass for that matter) enter this reality distortion field. It leads to some less than objective discussions. In a lot of ways, it reminds me of how Staal was perceived around here.

Whaaaat?

 

[Michael8771*]

You said we'd be better off without Ehrhoff and to have his 4m in cap space. Go back and read what you wrote and what you responded to.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him signed to a 2-4 yr deal around the same money as now. Not because he's all that great (he's average), but because there's very few options next summer. We saw the issues Philly has had over the last 10+ years looking for a goalie. I'd rather have MAF than go through that crap. Best case we also find someone else, and then trade MAF (Edmonton? )

I read it and still believe there were better options available, some I previously cited. I would have gone after Vrbata, and if I needed to find that million difference then maybe trade Spaling. But that also would mean we could keep Martin for the playoff run.

Of course you do.

As for a winger.

Martin and a 5th for Killorn and a 3rd.

Then I'd be phoning Buffalo about Stafford. Everyone and their dog will be after Stewart - who despite his flaws, is still a very attractive player. I doubt many people would be asking about Stafford at this point in time, and with two poor seasons under his belt, the price to acquire him should be fairly reasonable. Likely something around a 2nd or a 3rd and a prospect. I really think he could be an under the radar pickup for us that could do well. Kind of like MacArthur would have been. Not a great name/player.. but someone who's not a big name guy who could help.

Spend another pick/prospect at the deadline on a 3rd pairing vet as insurance against our youth.

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Killorn - Malkin - Stafford
Dupuis - Sutter - Bennett
Comeau - Goc - Downie
Spalling

Ehrhoff - Letang
Maatta - Despres
XXX - Bortuzzo
Scuderi

X = any one of Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, etc.

Would give us a solid top 6 with BB, Sutter and Dupuis anchoring the 3rd line, which should in theory be able to play a more offensive role. Not sure who'd I'd sit out of Downie, Spaling or Comeau... but if we are healthy and acquire 2 forwards, someone needs to sit. Or trade one of Spaling/Comeau as part of the Stafford deal. IDK.

I 100% agree with your premise here. I have no issues with trading Spaling. Not that I dislike him, but Comeau for less than half the cap hit IMO is more attractive. I might switch Kunitz with Killorn and Give Geno his own prickly type of winger. But overall I like the depth there.

 

[cassius]

Whaaaat?

Pens fans and Penguins management like Fleury as a person so much that they can't analyze his abilities in any sort of objective manner.

 

[Shady Machine]

Pens fans and Penguins management like Fleury as a person so much that they can't analyze his abilities in any sort of objective manner.

Yup this is most certainly the problem. I met a long time season ticket holder on a plane last year. She knew a lot of the early 90's Penguins personally from living near them and teaching some of their kids. She went on and on about how nice Fleury is and how she can't believe any true fan wouldn't want him to be the Penguin's goalie. I just smiled and nodded. Not worth the argument

 

[Michael8771*]

Also and MOST importantly I think KILLORN is a very reasonable target. For TB he's a nice piece but not completely necessary. I really hope the Pens look into this. Most TB fans that responded were behind it as well.

 

[Til the End of Time]

fleury has been the player most responsible for this teams playoff failures.

signing him would be the ultimate indication that this organization does not prioritize winning above all else, that they only want to win with "their guys" and with "their style." imo this mindset comes from lemieux.

 

[Michael8771*]

Pens fans and Penguins management like Fleury as a person so much that they can't analyze his abilities in any sort of objective manner.

Yup this is most certainly the problem. I met a long time season ticket holder on a plane last year. She knew a lot of the early 90's Penguins personally from living near them and teaching some of their kids. She went on and on about how nice Fleury is and how she can't believe any true fan wouldn't want him to be the Penguin's goalie. I just smiled and nodded. Not worth the argument

MAF has not lived up to expectations, not IMO anyhow. That said he hasn't been a miserable failure either. Looking at other alternatives I'm somewhat indifferent. I wouldn't mind giving Greiss and someone else a shot next year, but I'm not gonna climb the walls if MAF is retained. Well, as long as he's not commanding a long term deal with a big pay raise. Now that would get my ire up a bit. I doubt that happens however.

 

[Til the End of Time]

MAF has not lived up to expectations, not IMO anyhow. That said he hasn't been a miserable failure either. Looking at other alternatives I'm somewhat indifferent. I wouldn't mind giving Greiss and someone else a shot next year, but I'm not gonna climb the walls if MAF is retained. Well, as long as he's not commanding a long term deal with a big pay raise. Now that would get my ire up a bit. I doubt that happens however.

how can you say this? he has been a miserable failure every year since the cup, except for last year when he was ok.

fleury has been the epitome of a miserable failure for the vast majority of his playoff/high pressure situations throughout his career.

how was he not a miserable failure vs. the habs, flyers, islanders?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

nobody offers him a long term deal? I dunno.

What teams might be in the market for a new goalie next year?

And the only team that might offer something long term and crazy would be the Oilers, they would suck even more!

 

[Michael8771*]

how can you say this? he has been a miserable failure every year since the cup, except for last year when he was ok.

fleury has been the epitome of a miserable failure for the vast majority of his playoff/high pressure situations throughout his career.

how was he not a miserable failure vs. the habs, flyers, islanders?

Well, he took us to two cup finals. Also his last post season was pretty good. And the Boston series the year before was more about our inability to score than MAF necessarily soiling the bed. The Flyers series he was terrible no doubt. And again, I'm not clamoring to keep him. I just don't see any alternative available that's conclusively better. Who would you prefer?

 

[cassius]

how can you say this? he has been a miserable failure every year since the cup, except for last year when he was ok.

fleury has been the epitome of a miserable failure for the vast majority of his playoff/high pressure situations throughout his career.

how was he not a miserable failure vs. the habs, flyers, islanders?

But he's really good in the shootout! And he will win 40 games this season..

You can't find any goalies out there who can do things like that. Because, you know, racking up 40 wins has nothing to do with the team in front of you or anything.

I'm so tired of the "40 wins" and "he won a cup" argument. Guess what? So did Chris Osgood.. and when he was on the wings he won 2/3rds of every start. So that equates to 40 wins over a regular season.

You could probably find a random goalie in the AHL who could play for this Penguins team and manage 30-40 wins.

 

[Captain Hook]

Just looking at the options for Fleury.

Anaheim = No
Gibson and Anderson both singed through 2015-16.

Arizona = No
Mike Smith signed long-term at 5.6 million per.

Boston = No
Rask

Calgary = No
Hiller is signed this year and next at 4.5m/per

Carolina =No
Ward at 6.3m/per and Khudobin at 2.2m/per through 2015-16

Chicago = No
Crawford signed long-term at 6 million per

Colorado = No
Varlamov signed long-term at 5.9m/per

Columbus = No
Bobrovsky

Dallas = No
Lehtonen signed long-term at 5.9m/per

Detroit = No
Howard signed long-term at 5.2m/per

Florida = No
Loungo signed long-term at 4.5m cap hit

LA = No
Jonathan Quick

Minnesota = No
Backstrom signed this year and next at 3.4m/per and he has a 35+ contract that you can't bury. Not to mention Kuemper signed for this year and next at 1.2m/per.

Montreal = No
Carey Price

Islanders = No
Halak

Rangers = No
Lundqvist

Nashville = No
Rinne

New Jersey = No
Schneider

Ottawa = No
Anderson signed long-term at 3.1m/per and Lehner signed through 2016-17 at 2.2m/per

Philly = No
Mason signed long-term at 4.1m/per

San Jose = No
Niemi is UFA after this season but Stalock seems to be their guy and is signed for this season and next.

St. Louis = No
Elliot is signed through 2016-17 at 2.5m/per and they have a good young goalie in Jake Allen waiting in the wings.

Tampa = No
Bishop

Toronto = No
Bernier

Vancouver = No
Ryan Miller

Washinton = Probably not.
Holtby is only RFA after this season and Justin Peters is signed this year and next for 950k but they do love former Pens so you never know.

Winnipeg = No unless they buy out Pavalec.
Pavalec is signed for this year and two more after that at 3.9m/per

The best possibilities for Fleury seem to be

Buffalo
Neuvirth and Enroth are both UFA's.

Edmonton
Fasth is UFA after this season and Scrivens is not making huge money. He makes 2.3m/per this year and next but that shouldn't deter them from going after a starter if they think he's an upgrade.

 

[seabs926]

Well, he took us to two cup finals. Also his last post season was pretty good. And the Boston series the year before was more about our inability to score than MAF necessarily soiling the bed. The Flyers series he was terrible no doubt. And again, I'm not clamoring to keep him. I just don't see any alternative available that's conclusively better. Who would you prefer?

That's because he wasn't playing against Boston.

He's had one decent post season since the Cup.

 

[cassius]

Just looking at the options for Fleury.

Anaheim = No
Gibson and Anderson both singed through 2015-16.

Arizona = No
Mike Smith signed long-term at 5.6 million per.

Boston = No
Rask

Calgary = No
Hiller is signed this year and next at 4.5m/per

Carolina =No
Ward at 6.3m/per and Khudobin at 2.2m/per through 2015-16

Chicago = No
Crawford signed long-term at 6 million per

Colorado = No
Varlamov signed long-term at 5.9m/per

Columbus = No
Bobrovsky

Dallas = No
Lehtonen signed long-term at 5.9m/per

Detroit = No
Howard signed long-term at 5.2m/per

Florida = No
Loungo signed long-term at 4.5m cap hit

LA = No
Jonathan Quick

Minnesota = No
Backstrom signed this year and next at 3.4m/per and he has a 35+ contract that you can't bury. Not to mention Kuemper signed for this year and next at 1.2m/per.

Montreal = No
Carey Price

Islanders = No
Halak

Rangers = No
Lundqvist

Nashville = No
Rinne

New Jersey = No
Schneider

Ottawa = No
Anderson signed long-term at 3.1m/per and Lehner signed through 2016-17 at 2.2m/per

Philly = No
Mason signed long-term at 4.1m/per

San Jose = No
Niemi is UFA after this season but Stalock seems to be their guy and is signed for this season and next.

St. Louis = No
Elliot is signed through 2016-17 at 2.5m/per and they have a good young goalie in Jake Allen waiting in the wings.

Tampa = No
Bishop

Toronto = No
Bernier

Vancouver = No
Ryan Miller

Washinton = Probably not.
Holtby is only RFA after this season and Justin Peters is signed this year and next for 950k but they do love former Pens so you never know.

Winnipeg = No unless they buy out Pavalec.
Pavalec is signed for this year and two more after that at 3.9m/per

The best possibilities for Fleury seem to be

Buffalo
Neuvirth and Enroth are both UFA's.

Edmonton
Fasth is UFA after this season and Scrivens is not making huge money. He makes 2.3m/per this year and next but that shouldn't deter them from going after a starter if they think he's an upgrade.

So basically the only 2 destinations for Fleury are the two worst bottom-feeders in the league, who will probably lose 50 games this year and have 0 chance at the playoffs.

Yet at the same time, folks around here think Fleury should be re-signed and that we have no other options. Cognitive dissonance..

 

[Hottubber]

But he's really good in the shootout! And he will win 40 games this season..

You can't find any goalies out there who can do things like that. Because, you know, racking up 40 wins has nothing to do with the team in front of you or anything.

I'm so tired of the "40 wins" and "he won a cup" argument. Guess what? So did Chris Osgood.. and when he was on the wings he won 2/3rds of every start. So that equates to 40 wins over a regular season.

You could probably find a random goalie in the AHL who could play for this Penguins team and manage 30-40 wins.

This is how the Canucks justified keeping Dan Cloutier around for so long. Cause he got them 3 30+ win seasons, yet kept choking in the playoffs and let in just brutal goals at the worst times