Confirmed with Link: [2013] [TB/OTT] Ben Bishop to TB for Cory Conacher and a 4th round pick

[The Macho King]

I think this needs to be said. It may not be the best move, but it's one of those "hockey trades". People didn't like the Downie for 1st at first (which got us Vas), and people weren't crazy about Ashton for Aulie at first either (how about now?). This may work out in our favor, it may not, but I don't think it's going to bite us in the ass no matter how it shakes out.

 

[MattM92]

I think this needs to be said. It may not be the best move, but it's one of those "hockey trades". People didn't like the Downie for 1st at first (which got us Vas), and people weren't crazy about Ashton for Aulie at first either (how about now?). This may work out in our favor, it may not, but I don't think it's going to bite us in the ass no matter how it shakes out.

I don't think Aulie is progressing well at all. Though I do understand your point

 

[The Macho King]

We fleeced Toronto in Ashton for Aulie. Aulie has been a solid third pairing guy, vs. Ashton who is ******** the bed at the AHL level.

 

[bigfatfist]

Don't like this trade at all for Tampa. Guys like Conachar don't grow on trees and you simply don't trade them away for unproven commodities like Ben Bishop. I hope it works out for you guys though.

Conacher's proven, but Bishop isn't?

 

[JamieG]

Big over-reaction.
Players like Conacher are not all that hard to find if you're willing to give them ice time. Smaller skilled forwards that light it up at the AHL level.

Conacher got a chance with all star linemates and got off to a hot start...that's it. Nothing to weep over.

 

[Korpse]

You guys may be dissapointed about losing CC, but you should be excited about Bishop. He has all the tools to succeed. Big guy, good rebound control, good puck handler, moves well, reads the play well, athletic. More of a blocker which personally isnt a style im a big fan of but it works for him due to his size. I will warn you though he does give up the occassion softie (big 5 hole) but then you realize its the first goal he has given up in a few periods. I dont see him becoming a top 10 goalie but I do see him as a solid starter.

 

[Butchered]

Something I noticed while looking at some stats.

Bishop has faced 399 shots in 13 GP. His SV% is .922 and his GAA is 2.45

Garon has faced 387 shots in 16 GP. His SV% is .902 and his GAA is 2.81

Bishop has faced more shots in 3 less games and has better stats. So he's facing a pretty significant number of shots in his starts and he's coming up big. He will be an instant and obvious upgrade over Garon.

Lindback has played quite a few more games than Bishop so it's not quite as easy to compare but....

Lindback has faced 559 shots in 21 GP which is 26.61 shots against per game.
Lindback allows 1 goal for every 10.35 shots he faces.

Bishop's 399 in 13 GP is 30.69 shots against per game.
Bishop allows 1 goal for every 12.87 shots he faces.

If you take the 1 goal for every 12.87 shots and stretch it out over 559 shots faced Bishop will have allowed 43 goals. He'd have a .923 SV% and a GAA of 2.10 (taking his 758 minutes played in 13 games and stretching that out into 21 games. 758/13=58.30*21=1224.3(minutes played). 43(goals over 21 games)*60/1224.3=2.10)

Lindback has allowed 54, has a 2.88 GAA and a .903 SV%

Obviously this can't take into account blowouts or anything like this. Just taking what the two guys have done so far and filling it in.

 

[The Hockey Hitman]

Been saying Ben Bishop to TB for a few weeks now. Just seemed liked Yzerman and company's type of goalie. Bishop raised his stock in a big way since landing in Ottawa. There is the obvious answer for why it cost us Conacher. I was more puzzled as to why we had to give a pick in the deal. Bishop for Conacher makes sense regardless whether or not people "like" the trade. Both players have near identical GP(Bishop 36, Conacher 35) in the NHL. Both proved they are too good for the AHL.

Both players are far from sure things. As much as everyone has criticized Bishop for lack of NHL experience, Conacher is in the same boat!!

Let's face it, Conacher was a fan favorite. Rightfully so. I don't agree or believe he will ever be the point producer MSL is. To say so is really just being over dramatic. The trade took me off guard for a too. Took an hour to really sink in. Like many here in this thread have stated, when you take the emotion out of it, makes sense.

And to all the Miller/Luongo fanatics....if you hated what we gave up for Bishop, you surely would've hated what one of those two would've cost. Been saying it for a while now. Neither is the right cap fit or cost fit for TB.

Somebody posted something in the early pages of this thread along the lines of, "Yzerman you trade Conacher for Bishop but not Miller whhhyyy ******" or some junk.

With the way Buffalo bent Minnesota over in the Pominville deal, be happy Yzerman didn't pay whatever the price for Miller would've been!!

In closing, I hate seeing Cory go and especially to Sens who is our new division rival but....I will wish him the very best. He deserves it.

Having said that, couldn't be more excited to have Bishop/Lindback moving forward. I expect both could become good enough we end up trading one for some nice assets someday.

 

[dbieon12]

Unfortunately this was a good move.

 

[muffin with tentacle]

Good trade guys. We loved Big Ben but just didn't have room for him.

I'll be rooting for you guys until I get sick of us losing in shootouts to Bishop.

(warning: he can only move diagonally)

 

[InjuredChoker]

Good read on this trade, analysis and opinion by Boltprospects.

Been posted already, I think but doesn't hurt to bump it up.

And also here by Pronman.

 

[NHLeitner]

Let's postpone the "who won the trade" discussion for a second. I'm nervous about the trade not because of Bishop, but because of this organization's completely terrible track record of developing goalie talent. I think that only 2 goalies the Lightning have drafted have ever played in the NHL, and the development of young goalies is horrendous. Forget trading for more or less unproven goalies until you get a guy who you're certain can get these young goalies to the next level.

 

[Felonious Python]

Let's postpone the "who won the trade" discussion for a second. I'm nervous about the trade not because of Bishop, but because of this organization's completely terrible track record of developing goalie talent. I think that only 2 goalies the Lightning have drafted have ever played in the NHL, and the development of young goalies is horrendous. Forget trading for more or less unproven goalies until you get a guy who you're certain can get these young goalies to the next level.

Incorrect.

Derek Wilkinson (1992), Tyler Moss (1993), Zac Bierk (1995), Evgeny Konstantinov (1999), Brian Eklund (2000), Fredrick Norrena (2002), Gerald Coleman (2003), Karri Ramo (2004), Riku Helenius (2006), and Dustin Tokarski (2008)

I won't argue with the point you made though.

 

[Steve Yzerman]

Definite must win. A win here and a loss for Washington and Winnipeg and things will be looking good.

 

[Bolts265]

As we all take a step back from the edge...after first impressions I actually think we will be happy we made this deal.
I too loved the way Cory played but do agree that another small forward is not what we really need at this point, especially with the talent we have at that position. I seem to not be able to remember a single shift where CC did not spend some time on this ass. Either being knocked down or somehow losing his footing. Not knocking him at all but let's not make out that he was the second coming.

 

[Coopers Gum]

As we all take a step back from the edge...after first impressions I actually think we will be happy we made this deal.
I too loved the way Cory played but do agree that another small forward is not what we really need at this point, especially with the talent we have at that position. I seem to not be able to remember a single shift where CC did not spend some time on this ass. Either being knocked down or somehow losing his footing. Not knocking him at all but let's not make out that he was the second coming.

I hate it when people say that. It was his first season in the NHL. The players are faster and stronger. Remember Brett Connolly last year? He'd end up on his ass every shift too.

That being said, I'd agree with your statement.

 

[LGB 26]

I hate it when people say that. It was his first season in the NHL. The players are faster and stronger. Remember Brett Connolly last year? He'd end up on his ass every shift too.

That being said, I'd agree with your statement.

Was it Connolly or Conacher that had an attitude problem last year? I swear I remember reading about it on here.

 

[The Wyzerhood]

Incorrect.

Derek Wilkinson (1992), Tyler Moss (1993), Zac Bierk (1995), Evgeny Konstantinov (1999), Brian Eklund (2000), Fredrick Norrena (2002), Gerald Coleman (2003), Karri Ramo (2004), Riku Helenius (2006), and Dustin Tokarski (2008)

I won't argue with the point you made though.

FP, some of your comments are just pure gold. That list of goalies is embarrassing...

 

[MattM92]

http://instagram.com/p/XsDm6Oo-kf/

 

[lost puck]

Not happy about losing CC, but we did really over staffed at forward. I'd have liked to seen a better return (read proven #1) but I'm not SFY and have no idea what the market looked like. Miller might not have even been an option. With that said, we picked up a goalie that everyone was high on last year, so I guess we just had to wait a bit. We need goaltending and D, I just hope this pans out for us and Bishop comes in and stand on his head for us.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Something I noticed while looking at some stats.

Bishop has faced 399 shots in 13 GP. His SV% is .922 and his GAA is 2.45

Garon has faced 387 shots in 16 GP. His SV% is .902 and his GAA is 2.81

Bishop has faced more shots in 3 less games and has better stats. So he's facing a pretty significant number of shots in his starts and he's coming up big. He will be an instant and obvious upgrade over Garon.

Lindback has played quite a few more games than Bishop so it's not quite as easy to compare but....

Lindback has faced 559 shots in 21 GP which is 26.61 shots against per game.
Lindback allows 1 goal for every 10.35 shots he faces.

Bishop's 399 in 13 GP is 30.69 shots against per game.
Bishop allows 1 goal for every 12.87 shots he faces.

If you take the 1 goal for every 12.87 shots and stretch it out over 559 shots faced Bishop will have allowed 43 goals. He'd have a .923 SV% and a GAA of 2.10 (taking his 758 minutes played in 13 games and stretching that out into 21 games. 758/13=58.30*21=1224.3(minutes played). 43(goals over 21 games)*60/1224.3=2.10)

Lindback has allowed 54, has a 2.88 GAA and a .903 SV%

Obviously this can't take into account blowouts or anything like this. Just taking what the two guys have done so far and filling it in.

I love you Butchered.

That right there is how you debunk bad theories with stat analysis.

 

[Coopers Gum]

I love you Butchered.

That right there is how you debunk bad theories with stat analysis.

My only question is quality of the shots. Does Ottawa's D keep shooters to the halfboards to shoot, so its a low percentage chance? That's the problem with comparing stats. You really can't look at numbers and have it be definitive. You need to take systems and quality of shots into account.

While we may not give up as many shots as Ottawa, we may give shooters better chances. Is in essence what I'm trying to say.

 

[Butchered]

Thanks! Like I said this can't take all kinds of variables into account. Someone else on another forum pointed out that we block a lot of shots which lowers the shot totals and we also allow heavy zone time to the opposing team and that stats don't tell the story.

True. Fact. Stats do show something though and IMO, these stats are telling. Ottawa has actually blocked more shots than Tampa according to NHL.com

So they allow more shots per game and block more shots overall. I can't break down the shots blocked per game and to be fair the difference is only 2 but this is another mark in favor of Bishop.

Ottawa is number one in the league in goals allowed per game with 2.08. I know the super alien Anderson has had a huge impact on that number but Bishop has done his part as well. They are number one in the league in goals allowed while also being dead last in the league in shots allowed 33.1. So they face the most shots and allow the least goals. Big time.

I know stats don't tell the whole story but there's a whole lot to like when looking deeper into things. If you have a guy in net this season that put up a .923 SV% and a 2.10 GAA, this team is cemented in the playoff race right now.

 

[Korpse]

My only question is quality of the shots. Does Ottawa's D keep shooters to the halfboards to shoot, so its a low percentage chance? That's the problem with comparing stats. You really can't look at numbers and have it be definitive. You need to take systems and quality of shots into account.

While we may not give up as many shots as Ottawa, we may give shooters better chances. Is in essence what I'm trying to say.

Ottawa gives up a lot of shots because at times they have trouble leaving their zone and they get trapped. At the same time they have been great in front of the net. The forwards help out a lot and second chances infront are limited.

 

[OD99]

My only question is quality of the shots. Does Ottawa's D keep shooters to the halfboards to shoot, so its a low percentage chance? That's the problem with comparing stats. You really can't look at numbers and have it be definitive. You need to take systems and quality of shots into account.

While we may not give up as many shots as Ottawa, we may give shooters better chances. Is in essence what I'm trying to say.

I believe you guys will quickly start to like Bishop as he is a very steady goalie and has stolen more than a few games for the Senators. He may not have a ton of NHL games yet but he is certainly experienced and battle tested - he stepped in and helped the Senators get a play-off spot last season under enormous pressure and did so again this season.

He is also a good guy in the room and someone who can clearly handle unstable situations (which is sort of what I assume he is coming into in T-Bay with a few goalies and the team not performing as expected).

I have only seen CC play a couple of times but if you think about it both teams seem to come our OK.

T-Bay turns an undrafted FA into a goalie who is clearly a starter in the NHL and the Senators turned a 2nd round pick into a goalie who helped them short term and then a young, skilled forward along with a 4th round pick.

Let's hope both players pan out - good luck.