2013 Offseason: UFA's, Trades - Not long now! Part IX.

[BonkTastic]

I suggest you look at our friend Zack's career progression
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=14495

Kid was never even ppg in junior. Never good enough to get drafted.

What are you talking about? He was a 3rd round pick.

Then put up good offensive seasons in the AHL... then goes near ppg in the AHL playoffs when the Sens go on to win.

Donald Brashear was a point-per-game player in the AHL as a 21 year old. Konopka had multiple near-PPG seasons in the AHL. It means jack poop.

The bottom line is, he's super talented and his basic hockey skills are all top notch. Shooting, skating, passing, puck handling, faceoffs, strength, it's all there. Everything.

If this were true, he wouldn't be losing his 4th line center job. Guys with top notch skills who are super talented are not 5th line centers as 25 year olds. Homer glasses.

Even at 25 years old he can still improve, obviously. Really in his first full year he produced at a 25 point pace, and it was the same last year in a shortened. He is by no means a lock to improve on that, but still, it's very possible that he does.

Especially if he gets away from playing with Chris Neil on the 4th line. Even if you think he's old, he still has potential.

I don't think he's "old", I think hes old enough that he's getting into the "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" stage of his career. I can't think of too many guys who drastically improve their game after they are 25 years old. And getting away from Chris Neil on our 4th line and moving to playing with Ben Eager on Edmonton's 4th line is a lateral move at best.

Campbell is 30. That's 5 less years of hockey playing and has huge effect on trade value.

A 25 year old 4th liner is no more valuable than a 30 year old 4th liner, assuming skill is equal. All are entirely replaceable. Youth is valuable on your 4th line if they are young enough to still be developing, or if their contract is cheap enough that it can offset a more expensive contract elsewhere on the roster, neither of which Smith brings.

I'm not saying the Oil would make the trade, or that any GM would make the trade.

So why are you proposing, and subsequently defending, the trade?

 

[WhiteLight*]

What are you talking about? He was a 3rd round pick.

My bad. drafted at 20 though, late bloomer point still stands

Donald Brashear was a point-per-game player in the AHL as a 21 year old. Konopka had multiple near-PPG seasons in the AHL. It means jack poop.

And they can't skate at all. Smith can skate.

If this were true, he wouldn't be losing his 4th line center job. Guys with top notch skills who are super talented are not 5th line centers as 25 year olds. Homer glasses.

Losing to who? Smith isn't gonna sit out.

Hate glasses.

I don't think he's "old", I think hes old enough that he's getting into the "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" stage of his career. I can't think of too many guys who drastically improve their game after they are 25 years old. And getting away from Chris Neil on our 4th line and moving to playing with Ben Eager on Edmonton's 4th line is a lateral move at best.

Ben Eager? Yeesh. Well informed on all things hockey I see

A 25 year old 4th liner is no more valuable than a 30 year old 4th liner, assuming skill is equal. All are entirely replaceable. Youth is valuable on your 4th line if they are young enough to still be developing, or if their contract is cheap enough that it can offset a more expensive contract elsewhere on the roster, neither of which Smith brings.

Completely disagree. 25 yo >>> 30 yo.

Smith is still developing as mentioned.

So why are you proposing, and subsequently defending, the trade?

And you took out my text explaining that. Thanks so much
not cool to edit other people's posts









Man some people just can't appreciate what they have. That's a damn solid top 12 the Sens have, with amazing depth on top. Smith is our 4th line centre = poop wow

 

[BonkTastic]

Man some people just can't appreciate what they have. That's a damn solid top 12 the Sens have, with amazing depth on top. Smith is our 4th line centre = poop wow

I never said that. I think Smith is a nice player, a good 4th liner who can fill in on your 3rd and not hurt you at all.

My point the entire time, the entire time, was that he is in no way worth a 1st round pick.

My point was never that Smith is worthless, it's that any team who could conceivably be a lottery team again this year with or without Smith, who gives us a 1st rounder in exchange for Smith, should be fired on the spot.

And you took out my text explaining that. Thanks so much
not cool to edit other people's posts

Well, I thought I was doing you a favor there by not delving into that, but if you really want to discuss that, we can.

 

[Micklebot]

My bad. drafted at 20 though, late bloomer point still stands



And they[brashear] can't skate at all. Smith can skate.

...

Brashear could skate, he was pretty fast for a big guy and central scouting considered his skating an asset in his draft year. Not sure who you're thinking of.

 

[Sensinitis]

Well, I don't know if he got shot in the foot in the Bronx or something, but he was a terrible skater as far up as 10 years ago.

 

[BonkTastic]

Well, I don't know if he got shot in the foot in the Bronx or something, but he was a terrible skater as far up as 10 years ago.

Started training like an enforcer and less like a hockey player. His hockey skills got worse and worse every year.

I remember in High School how Habs fans would not shut up about how great he was going to be. In the mid 90's, maybe 1994/95, the Habs Hype Machine(TM) was calling him Montreal's answer to Cam Neely, it was ridiculous. He scored 38 goals in the AHL, and Habs fans went ape.

 

[Micklebot]

Well, I don't know if he got shot in the foot in the Bronx or something, but he was a terrible skater as far up as 10 years ago.

Well, he was getting old by that point. A 31 year old 240 pound skater who made his entire career out of being an enforcer tends to break down. If you're only looking at the twilight of his career, sure his skating was subpar, but it was initially an asset all the way through his peak years.

 

[Sensinitis]

Well, he was getting old by that point. A 31 year old 240 pound skater who made his entire career out of being an enforcer tends to break down. If you're only looking at the twilight of his career, sure his skating was subpar, but it was initially an asset all the way through his peak years.

Well, I disagree

 

[Micklebot]

Well, I disagree

That he was breaking down or that he was ever a good skater? Because I'm fairly sure I can provide references for both. He was certainly not an elite skater at any point, but as I said, it was considered an asset when drafted and into the prime years of his career.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Man some people just can't appreciate what they have.

i actually lol'd.
pot meet kettle.

i reference every post you've ever made in regards to spezza.

 

[HavlatMach9]

i actually lol'd.
pot meet kettle.

i reference every post you've ever made in regards to spezza.

Usually the concern for MAK has been injuries regarding Spezza, not his play.

 

[BonkTastic]

Usually the concern for MAK has been injuries regarding Spezza, not his play.

Well, it's been both.

He suggested we move Spezza to the wing to make room for Turris/Zibanejad/Pageau/Smith as our 4 centers.

 

[Sens Rule]

Da Costa is worth a late round puck at Most at this point... And Smith is probably worth a late second, early third to some team. At most.

I agree Edmonton could be a good destination for Smith.... Thinking they would even consider giving up their first is moronic.

Smith is possibly the 12th of our 12 NHL forwards now. He is not trade bait, but thinking our 12th forward and someone who can't make our team is worth a 1st rounder from a team that was in the lottery is certifiable.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Boys must be tired

 

[trentmccleary]

Smith has size, speed, skill and faceoffs (?) that Campbell does not have.

Smith doesn't have speed. He might be our slowest forward.

I never said that. I think Smith is a nice player, a good 4th liner who can fill in on your 3rd and not hurt you at all.

26 points and a 26 point pace over the past 2 seasons is an average-to-above average 3rd liner's production. Add in the all-round package of defense, grit, face-offs and size... he's clearly a 3rd line player. However, I would argue that his lack of speed might play better on the wing than center.

Brashear could skate, he was pretty fast for a big guy and central scouting considered his skating an asset in his draft year. Not sure who you're thinking of.

Definitely, Brashear had very good straight ahead speed.

 

[derriko]

My mind is blown that Brashear had a couple 20+ point years in the bigs, even a 28 point season. I only saw him during the twilight of his career. I was expecting a career high of about 10-15.

Brashear scored as many points as Condra hahaha

 

[One M0RE YEAR]

My mind is blown that Brashear had a couple 20+ point years in the bigs, even a 28 point season. I only saw him during the twilight of his career. I was expecting a career high of about 10-15.

Brashear scored as many points as Condra hahaha

Seriously, people need to realize that condra is probably going to be the worst forward on the team this year and that yes, he is expendable. We do have many more guys who can pk (we rolled at least 3 pk lines a game last year)

 

[PatrickEaves]

Seriously, people need to realize that condra is probably going to be the worst forward on the team this year and that yes, he is expendable. We do have many more guys who can pk (we rolled at least 3 pk lines a game last year)

He's the best defensive forward on the team. When the guy is on the ice, the Sens tend to have possession of the puck, thus the other team doesn't score.

It's pretty simple.

 

[YNWA14]

Smith is underrated. There's a reason that management loves him. He's a big, 2-way, physical player that can skate well, and brings some offence when needed. People say that he 'can fill in on the 3rd line' even though he's probably an elite 3rd line player. He can fill in on the 2nd or even 1st line when called upon (look at last year for an example, went ppg playing with Alfie in his short stint on the top line when Turris was slumping).

Smith is a keeper, and very valuable to this team.

 

[CanadianHockey]

My mind is blown that Brashear had a couple 20+ point years in the bigs, even a 28 point season. I only saw him during the twilight of his career. I was expecting a career high of about 10-15.

Brashear scored as many points as Condra hahaha

I feel the same way when I look at Chris Simon's stats.

 

[Indrew]

Seriously, people need to realize that condra is probably going to be the worst forward on the team this year and that yes, he is expendable. We do have many more guys who can pk (we rolled at least 3 pk lines a game last year)

NO!

Condra might be the worst offensive forward in terms of points scored, maybe. Some forwards do a lot more than just get points.

Take a look at this:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&sort=shortHandedTimeOnIce&viewName=timeOnIce

Our top penalty killing forwards last season, on the TOP rated penalty kill in the league:

Condra
Alfredsson
Turris
O'Brien
Silfverberg
Regin
Daugavins
Greening
Michalek
Smith

5 of those forwards are not on the NHL roster anymore. How exactly does that make Condra expendable?

When completely healthy, I guess the Sens will roll Condra, Turris, Greening, Michalek, Smith and Pageau. Spezza might take key faceoffs. They may give Zibby some reps out there too.

Basically what it comes down to: who would you rather have blocking shots and eating minutes defensively, Condra or Michalek? Condra or Turris? Condra or Spezza? Condra is better defensively than Smith, Pageau, or Greening. The coaching staff trusts him. These types of players are valuable.

He has been my hero ever since he took it upon himself to take out Subban early in game 3. He set the tone for the entire game. Our garbage 24 year old prospects have nothing on him.

 

[Slack]

I'm so sick of hearing that Condra nonsense. I guess the only weak spot on Anaheim's cup team was Pahlsson, right? That plug only put up 26 pts in 06-07.

Had they added another "good" forward they clearly would have swept us.

 

[BonkTastic]

With the season starting tonight, seems like a good reason to close the Offeason thread.


HOCKEY STARTS TONIGHT, BOYS.


The official "Around The NHL" thread for the 2013/14 season can be found here.