Proposal: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, and Potential Buyouts | Part III

[Benjamin]

I think people tend to forget that the other team actually has to accept the trade. If those prospects are so good, they may as well draft them instead of trading their pick for a dumb offensively challenged defensive defenseman.

Just speculating off of what Dreger was saying.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Is it possible that Ottawa could trade 3 players for a late first round pick? For example, would three NHL players like Conacher, Condra & JOB together be worth the 25th pick in the first round or an early 2nd rd pick?

Haha
This team has no idea how valuable Condra is. Conacher himself has just as much potential top 6 ability than you'd find a guy this late in the draft.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Just speculating off of what Dreger was saying.

How were you speculating?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Cowen easily has number 1 potential as a defender. His dominance in the first 3 AHL games this year were ridiculous.

 

[Benjamin]

How were you speculating?

Dreger said Canes are considering trade the 5th overall and that they need a top 4 dman.

Its pretty simple...

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Dreger said Canes are considering trade the 5th overall and that they need a top 4 dman.

Its pretty simple...

Did Dreger also say the Canes were stupid?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Did Dreger also say the Canes were stupid?

 

[Qward]

People are entitled to their opinions. Debate the posts. Do not insult each other. I will be handing out infractions and threadbans if this continues.

 

[Nabokov20]

For some reason I see us signing either Mason Raymond or Viktor Stalberg. Just a hunch

Edit: Or trading for Frolik

 

[Tampacuseforever]

Cowen easily has number 1 potential as a defender. His dominance in the first 3 AHL games this year were ridiculous.

Your a breathe of fresh air, most guys on here spend all there time dishing on our own players !!!

 

[Langdon Alger]

Remember Pisani and Joel Ward? Anything can happen but I do see a lot of good stuff in Bickell just nothing over 3.5 good.

Also, If I'm Murray im targetting Hammer or Leddy from Chicago.

The difference between Pisani and Bickell is that we knew what Pisani was in 2006. He was a third line player who got hot at the right time. Has Bickell reached his potential yet? In my opinion no. I realize he's not 22 or 23, but he's still relatively inexperienced at the NHL level. Now having said that, is some GM going to overpay for him this summer? Absolutely, but he's a big strong power forward who just came off a great playoff run. It will be interesting to see what kind of career he ends up having. Was this just a flash in the pan, or is the start of a great career? Maybe something in the middle? We don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I mean, of course he was going to play better when he's on a line with Toews and Kane, but for that clueless poster calling him terrible? I think most can agree he's not.

 

[The Expert]

sorry, i forgot to add the video that a couple people posted above.

Not necessary, should be obvious.*

*When I say obvious, I mean for anyone who wasn't travelling to Australia that day, as Canadian guy was. That's a damn good excuse, and sounds like a blast.

 

[Tkachuk27]

WOW!!!

Melnyk didn't pay $92M out of his pocket, though the team without the arena did cost $92M.

To my knowledge the exact cost for the team and arena was never made public, however reports placed that figure between $130M and $150M.

I suggest you read the numbers prior to posting a link that doesn't support the claims.

The operating income - earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization was a negative $3.8M (LOSS).

The Debt/Value is 66%, which means Melnyk owes 66% of $196M on the team and arena or $129M.

This debt needs to be serviced, I have no idea what the terms of the loan(s) are, but assuming an interest rate of 5% ($6.5M), Melnyk lost at least $10.3M prior to paying taxes.

Sure doesn't seem like a money making machine.

Cleary says what he bought the team for .. committed part was a number that was between 2 figures if you look at his revenue stream and do the math he is making money

 

[Sensinitis]

Sometimes having four or five 60 point guys is better than having two 90 points guys and 40 point tweeners for the rest and maybe one 50 point player.

See: Boston(Horton, Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand)

 

[Micklebot]

The difference between Pisani and Bickell is that we knew what Pisani was in 2006. He was a third line player who got hot at the right time. Has Bickell reached his potential yet? In my opinion no. I realize he's not 22 or 23, but he's still relatively inexperienced at the NHL level. Now having said that, is some GM going to overpay for him this summer? Absolutely, but he's a big strong power forward who just came off a great playoff run. It will be interesting to see what kind of career he ends up having. Was this just a flash in the pan, or is the start of a great career? Maybe something in the middle? We don't know. We'll have to wait and see. I mean, of course he was going to play better when he's on a line with Toews and Kane, but for that clueless poster calling him terrible? I think most can agree he's not.

Pisani had 191 NHL games under his belt at 29 years old when he went on a tear in the playoffs.

Bickell has 220 reg season games at age 26 and has gone on a tear in the playoffs.

Not sure they are as disimilar as you suggest. That said, even if he doesn't continue his recent performance, he's still a useful player, but I would certainly be very cautious at this stage offering him a contract.

 

[PatrickEaves]

Sometimes having four or five 60 point guys is better than having two 90 points guys and 40 point tweeners for the rest and maybe one 50 point player.

See: Boston(Horton, Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand)

You mean the team that LOST the Stanley Cup? Sorry, not interested.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

You mean the team that LOST the Stanley Cup? Sorry, not interested.

The team that won a cup and two years later lost in the finals? I'd be thrilled if the Senators reach that level

edit - missed the sarcasm lol

 

[Holdurbreathe]

False.

As I mentioned yesterday, revenues from regular season ticket prices are not going to be the way the Senators earn enough revenue to spend much more.

It'll come from regional broadcast deals, playoff performance (# of home games), and sponsorship. "Canadian Market Costs" and season ticket # has little or nothing to do with this.

Not false at all.

The difference between the Leafs and Sens tickets pricing is ~$44M , that is at least twenty times what the recent deal with Canadian Tire is worth.

While I am not denying increasing other revenue streams is a good strategic focus, the reality is the Sens currently are equal to or better than other like sized markets in regard to revenue from local partnerships/sponsorships.

Just how much more can be squeezed out, considering the city's largest employer has no involvement is really the question and potentially the problem.

To provide clarity, I wasn't suggesting the Sens should raise ticket prices for Sens games, just that if the fans believe the Sens need to increase spending to be competitive, then they should be equally willing to at least pay the average Canadian seating prices to offset the cost.

IMO the Sens won't raise ticket prices, they will continue to grow other revenue streams as opportunity presents itself and in the interim won't be spending close to the cap.

 

[JackBauer]

Is it possible that Ottawa could trade 3 players for a late first round pick? For example, would three NHL players like Conacher, Condra & JOB together be worth the 25th pick in the first round or an early 2nd rd pick?

are you being sarcastic? i can't tell. The Murrays have already said they had the option of taking Tampa's 2nd rounder for Bishop and the scouts wanted Conacher instead. And you want to then ship off Conacher + Condra (don't really care about JOB) for an early 2nd (or late 1st)? You essentially want to trade away 60pts over the course of a full season for a fringe 1st rounder. FFS

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Cleary says what he bought the team for .. committed part was a number that was between 2 figures if you look at his revenue stream and do the math he is making money

Sorry the revenue means absolutely nothing in terms of profit.

The only number that matters is Operating Income, and that still doesn't take into account other charges like interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

I am sorry if you don't understand how balance sheets and financial reporting works, but the data contained in the link you provided indicates the Ottawa Senators lost at least $10M for that fiscal year.

PS I think you misunderstood my comment about the $92M, you are right he paid this amount for the team. However he didn't write a cheque for $92M, he borrowed the money against the franchise value. The data from the link you provided indicates he borrowed at least $126M in the deal for team and arena.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

are you being sarcastic? i can't tell. The Murrays have already said they had the option of taking Tampa's 2nd rounder for Bishop and the scouts wanted Conacher instead. And you want to then ship off Conacher + Condra (don't really care about JOB) for an early 2nd (or late 1st)? You essentially want to trade away 60pts over the course of a full season for a fringe 1st rounder. FFS

While I am not suggesting to ship Condra or Conacher anywhere, I would suggest the Sens scouts felt Conacher was worth more than a second round pick in this year's draft.

However IMO that doesn't preclude Murray from using that asset (Conacher) to improve the team if possible, it is what he is paid to do.

 

[Sensinitis]

No use in trading Conacher after we've had him play with us for like 2 months... Next year he'll know the system, will learn the defensive game better and will probably have a good opportunity to prove himself with Spezza or Turris if he has a good training camp. Very STUPID to trade him now before we can see what he does in a full season.

IMO he's a lock for 40-50 points and has the potential to be a Marchand type player.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Is this a trick question? To make room for Pageau?

I would have said to make room for Spezza

 

[Micklebot]

Sorry the revenue means absolutely nothing in terms of profit.

The only number that matters is Operating Income, and that still doesn't take into account other charges like interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

I am sorry if you don't understand how balance sheets and financial reporting works, but the data contained in the link you provided indicates the Ottawa Senators lost at least $10M for that fiscal year.

PS I think you misunderstood my comment about the $92M, you are right he paid this amount for the team. However he didn't write a cheque for $92M, he borrowed the money against the franchise value. The data from the link you provided indicates he borrowed at least $126M in the deal for team and arena.

It can be a little misleading looking at the operating income for just one year as player contracts can be back loaded, signing bonuses can also throw things off. Looking at the data on the link, the operating income quoted was for 2010 which coincided with the highest we had paid in player expenses in the 9 years they have listed (60 mil), I'm not sure if Heatley's bonus was include in that or the 2009 numbers. If you look at the chart showing the last nine years of operating income, you can see it fluctuates year to year, but we actually come out positive. That said, while 2 years in pretty deep negatives is discouraging, our player salaries the 2 year following the last data in the link were significantly lower (about 7 mil less), so I doubt we are lossing money to that extent now.

The other thing to take into account is that by owning the arena with a primary tenant (the sens) many additional incomes are available not included in these numbers.

edit: The other thing to consider is that the increase in the value to the team means very little until he goes to sell, as the problem Melnyk would be having is ensuring he has enough liquid assets to pay the operating costs, so he's not greedy just because he wont spend more even though valuation of the team has increase 100%, that doesn't really effect what he can afford, though it probably effect what banks will let him borrow to some degree.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Guess dropping Conacher down really helped them then ! Tampa has pitiful team defense there forwards cough up the puck constantly. There defense is and goaltending are weak but there forwards are no help !
Especially when your team is a defensive mess.

I agree with what you wrote almost entirely, surprised!

The bolded I also agree with but is where my concerns arise. IMO Cory isn't defensively sound and moving him down brings focus to his weakness, not his strengths. While I believe he needs to move down to develop, I think he will be at a disadvantage in training camp.

As a general rule I don't like the bottom of the line up to be small and having Cory potentially on the third line and Pageau on the 4th line isn't something I think is particularly sound.