News Article: 2013-14 News & Notes

[BobRouse]

If indeed it was a shot at Oates, like some of us suspect, it would fall in line with other quotes from players like Ovechkin, Backstrom and even Brouwer.

Laich is the only one who had Oates' back but Laich has hardly played these last 2 years and definitely not down the stretch here when things really went south.

Its becoming a trend. A rival GM/managment dude said he felt the team quit on Oates.

This is 4 players now who have intentionally/unintentionally said something that could easily be construed as a shot against the coach. I don't think its a coincidence personally.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Certainly a "where there's smoke" situation....


No objective outside hockey evaluator in their right mind could keep Oates at this point could they?

 

[foundhockey]

Both Ovie and Nick's pregame interviews were interesting. Ovie said, and I'm paraphrasing here: being out of the playoffs is bad and maybe it's good. We'll see next year. Nick emphasized the great locker room feel and how they are a great group of guys and that the team has to work harder. When asked what needs to change for next year, Nick said something to the effect of: it's not up to me.

Ovie: http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/alex-ovechkin-pregame-4-10-14

Nick: http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/nicklas-backstrom-pregame-4-10-14

 

[Calicaps]

Both Ovie and Nick's pregame interviews were interesting. Ovie said, and I'm paraphrasing here: being out of the playoffs is bad and maybe it's good. We'll see next year. Nick emphasized the great locker room feel and how they are a great group of guys and that the team has to work harder. When asked what needs to change for next year, Nick said something to the effect of: it's not up to me.

Ovie: http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/alex-ovechkin-pregame-4-10-14

Nick: http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos/nicklas-backstrom-pregame-4-10-14

good links, thanks.

I'll be interested to see what they bring for the remaining games. Do they have some self-respect or do they phone it in?

 

[malyk]

I'm trying to find those quotes....

Sorry if that was confusing. That was just my translation of alzner's wording into what it sounds like he's saying to me.

 

[ChibiPooky]

From an interview with Orlov:

I don’t know if you are familiar with terms like Corsi or puck possession. Do coaches discuss things like that with you and other players? And did you realize your Corsi rating is the second highest on the team behind Mike Green?

DO: I never heard of such things. So what does it mean that mine is second highest – is it bad?

http://www.russianmachineneverbreak...ng-for-team-russia-in-the-world-championship/

So why do you think the two of you have the best numbers when it comes to puck possession on the team? Also, based on these numbers, it seems like you two have developed some kind of chemistry even though you are both offensive defensemen?

DO: I think it is actually a positive when both defensemen have a good offensive game. It’s easier to read each other’s game. He can help out – get in a good position, get open, carry the puck forward, create advantage for the team that way. I think he is a really good hockey player, and it is a pleasure to play with him.

To his credit he seemed to get it pretty quickly.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

To be fair, I don't think coaches should even approach statistical measures with players. The last thing you want them thinking about is their stats.

Coaches should preach the things that lead to good stats, not preach good stats and hope it leads to those things.

Management-level is where stats should be considered, though I'm guessing Corsi and Fenwick are several years behind the metrics that the best organizations at statistical analysis are using.

 

[BobRouse]

From an interview with Orlov:





http://www.russianmachineneverbreak...ng-for-team-russia-in-the-world-championship/





To his credit he seemed to get it pretty quickly.

Whats sad is that a hockey "genius" doesn't even pay attention to such stats to discuss with his players.

Sheesh even Craig Laughlin brought it up in some broadcasts.

 

[Calicaps]

From an interview with Orlov:





http://www.russianmachineneverbreak...ng-for-team-russia-in-the-world-championship/





To his credit he seemed to get it pretty quickly.

Hard not to like the kid. Wants to succeed, seems pretty sharp.

 

[g00n]

Whats sad is that a hockey "genius" doesn't even pay attention to such stats to discuss with his players.

Sheesh even Craig Laughlin brought it up in some broadcasts.

I can get behind a good coach ignoring certain stats in certain circumstances. Oates is not that coach.

 

[ChibiPooky]

To be fair, I don't think coaches should even approach statistical measures with players. The last thing you want them thinking about is their stats.

Coaches should preach the things that lead to good stats, not preach good stats and hope it leads to those things.

Management-level is where stats should be considered, though I'm guessing Corsi and Fenwick are several years behind the metrics that the best organizations at statistical analysis are using.

I agree, but you'd think a guy at that level of hockey would at least know what most of the metrics are.

Whats sad is that a hockey "genius" doesn't even pay attention to such stats to discuss with his players.

Sheesh even Craig Laughlin brought it up in some broadcasts.

Eh. Stats like Corsi are valuable, but not exactly something you can coach to, if you see what I'm saying. More useful for being able to stay ahead of the curve.

Hard not to like the kid. Wants to succeed, seems pretty sharp.

Agree.

 

[strungout]

Well...if Oates system kinda preaches low Corsi for D men (getting rid of the puck quickly)...that makes Orlov the 2nd worst on the team as compared to 2nd best?

I really don't give a **** about that stupid stat....but that's how it sounds.

 

[BobRouse]

Just seems to me when you have a coach that is so detail oriented as to giving every player "recommendations" on how to modify their stick, play the handedness card etc that he'd be aware of any data out there that he can use to help out.

You can't brush off consistently getting outshot every game or being pinned in your own zone.

If people were griping about Bruce not changing (when advanced stats showed he absolutely didn't need to change..Montreal series/losing streak prior to the Trap) then they should be hellbent about Oates not changing a horrendous system that proved over the course of a season and a half that it wasn't working at all.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Do they not want to announce departures before they can announce new hires or something?

This is getting scary.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Do they not want to announce departures before they can announce new hires or something?

This is getting scary.

Most of the local media were speculating that Wednesday would be the day. That was before "wrap-up" day though. With McPhee's second meeting with Leonsis and Patrick scheduled for "later this week" I would imagine nothing will happen until then, whenever then is.

 

[g00n]

Why Weds? After the draft lottery?

For some reason I'm thinking we get announcements from DC and Calgary on consecutive business days, either Thurs/Fri or Fri/Mon.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Just seems to me when you have a coach that is so detail oriented as to giving every player "recommendations" on how to modify their stick, play the handedness card etc that he'd be aware of any data out there that he can use to help out.

You can't brush off consistently getting outshot every game or being pinned in your own zone.

If people were griping about Bruce not changing (when advanced stats showed he absolutely didn't need to change..Montreal series/losing streak prior to the Trap) then they should be hellbent about Oates not changing a horrendous system that proved over the course of a season and a half that it wasn't working at all.

I don't see how telling a player he has good (or bad) Corsi helps any more or less than telling him how and why he's playing well (or poorly). High shot differential isn't a goal in and of itself; it's more a byproduct of the combination of good system and good execution, and has high predictive value when combined with other indicators.

No coach is going to go out there and tell his players to take a lot of shots and not give many up. A coach will say what plays he wants his guys to make.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Why Weds? After the draft lottery?

For some reason I'm thinking we get announcements from DC and Calgary on consecutive business days, either Thurs/Fri or Fri/Mon.

It was initial speculation and I think it was just because they know Ted is slow at these things.

My own feeling is that it'll be the day after whenever that second McPhee + Patrick + Leonsis meeting is.

 

[g00n]

I think it's OK to tell players stats if you give them clear instructions on what to do about it, and help with the process. You don't just tell a basketball player, "hey, your free throw percentage is worst on the team" and leave it at that. If you're going to tell a hockey player X stat, then provide adjustments so he doesn't have to THINK about the stat, it just improves.

With Oates, I think stats are another thing he wants to have both ways. I think he does pay attention to them, but he downplays the ones that make him or his system look bad.

 

[Chokingdogs]

Do they not want to announce departures before they can announce new hires or something?

This is getting scary.

well, it was about a month after the season ended before the team said poile wasnt going to be back. that was pollin, obviously, but sharky mcsuit patrick was in on the whole thing, so there's an element of carryover.

Washington Capitals owner Abe Pollin and President Dick Patrick told General Manager David Poile yesterday morning that his contract will not be renewed, saying "it is time to make a change." They will begin looking for a successor immediately.

Poile, 48, compiled a 594-454-132 record with the Capitals. In meeting with the media yesterday afternoon, Poile said his conversation with Pollin and Patrick lasted "about a minute" and that "I never said a word. I just thanked them."

Poile's contract was set to expire June 30, and throughout the season, both Pollin and Patrick said Washington's postseason performance would have "an impact" on Poile's job status. Things looked bleak for Poile when the Capitals (33-40-9) failed to make the playoffs for the first time in 15 years, but Pollin waited exactly a month, an unusually long period of time for a National Hockey League team, to confirm Poile's fears.

schoney was let go about a month later, and makfi was hired a couple days after that.

we could be in for a long, and agonizing, wait.....

 

[ChibiPooky]

That was under Pollin. Here's to hoping Leonsis does it differently (read: faster).

 

[BobRouse]

I don't see how telling a player he has good (or bad) Corsi helps any more or less than telling him how and why he's playing well (or poorly). High shot differential isn't a goal in and of itself; it's more a byproduct of the combination of good system and good execution, and has high predictive value when combined with other indicators.

No coach is going to go out there and tell his players to take a lot of shots and not give many up. A coach will say what plays he wants his guys to make.

Oates seems to be acutely aware of +/- doesn't he? He had a quote just yesterday about Ovechkin's so I'm sure that has been discussed.

If he is going to use that stat why not use better indicators as well?

 

[ChibiPooky]

Oates seems to be acutely aware of +/- doesn't he? He had a quote just yesterday about Ovechkin's so I'm sure that has been discussed.

If he is going to use that stat why not use better indicators as well?

Sorry, I was talking about a *good* coach

Really though; if Oates' method is "process, not results" then I would expect him to use no stats at all. But your point is fair.

 

[BobRouse]

Sorry, I was talking about a *good* coach

Really though; if Oates' method is "process, not results" then I would expect him to use no stats at all. But your point is fair.

Oates....

And I hate to hate on the guy. From all indications he's a good guy and super smart. I had his back for the most part of last season (even through the whole Ovechkin/Crabb affair) but this year...what a disaster.

But I do think these kinds of stats should be used to evaluate players especially at the GM level (Money Ball). But they have to be on the same page as the coach too.

Remember Carlysle misused Grabovski (one of their best possession players) and clearly didn't think much of him to the point where they bought him out. Had they used these types of stats maybe they would have seen his value?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I agree, but you'd think a guy at that level of hockey would at least know what most of the metrics are.

Just goes to show you that fans care about "advanced stats" crap, but players don't.