2010 keep gonchar or sign Martin?

[Honour Over Glory]

Same all over, as soon as the **** hit the pan, injuries, bad PP clown running it, the refs 'war', this board gradually became a magnet again for trolls to fuel the creation of this particular kind of BS that i remember having seen when Mario's career was coming to an end... 'Fun' indeed'!

A thread like this, at least it's a discussion that steers clear of that.

It's definitely something some of us have thought about. The only good thing to come from the Michalek ordeal was Sundqvist (not sure what Ruopp will be, Cheverie was nothing).

That one trade to send him back allowed the team to add an extra 3rd that got us Sundqvist, let the team still take Murray as well. I mean...at least that one turned into something positive.

 

[Gurglesons]

A thread like this, at least it's a discussion that steers clear of that.

It's definitely something some of us have thought about. The only good thing to come from the Michalek ordeal was Sundqvist (not sure what Ruopp will be, Cheverie was nothing).

That one trade to send him back allowed the team to add an extra 3rd that got us Sundqvist, let the team still take Murray as well. I mean...at least that one turned into something positive.

We didn't pay anything for Michalek and he played decently while he was here. We moved on from him and recouped assets. I don't see anything wrong with that. I would say it is actually one of the only examples of us moving on from a player that didn't fit and actually getting something for him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We didn't pay anything for Michalek and he played decently while he was here. We moved on from him and recouped assets. I don't see anything wrong with that. I would say it is actually one of the only examples of us moving on from a player that didn't fit and actually getting something for him.

Well he just didn't seem like he liked the way he was being used, the guy I think wanted out quietly and back to his old team. A team that had its future up in the air, maybe they are signs we missed but whatever. I liked Michalek and when the team moved him, they actually got a decent return for him.

The only time the team ever did that with a UFA signing that didn't work out as well and got some solid assets back (I don't count the Neal trade, he was a trade that was traded for more).

 

[Human]

And yet it hasn't has it?

sure, but it still doesn't make sense to give Gonchar a ton of money just for QBing the PP, back in 2010...

Just to be clear, I supported the moves then, but this is now, and there's no 20/20 insight required to see that now Martin is not required, especially on a long termed contract at his age. The only variable working for the team is he's still not 35 and if they did sign him his contract would take effect before he did turn 35.

The bad, it will probably take a 4/5 year term deal. They walked from Orpik and Niskanen and they should do the same here.

I'm still iffy as to what side you're on because, you mention Gonchar in there, and this is the same kind of scenario, just, they provided different qualities for the team.

for sure. I thought the OP was refering to 2010... Martin needs to be let go. too bad we couldn't trade him for a pick at the deadline...

 

[DavidBL]

Ducks fan here. Just curious, what do you guys think of Martin. Is he still a steady D? Has his play fallen off a lot?

I think the Ducks are moving on from Beauchemin. He really hasn't been the same since his knee injury. Martin seems like a guy who could step in and take those minutes rather than depending on Wiz to handle them. Martin also seems like a 2 way to D first type D man. Something I think the Ducks could use more of. I would have posted in a Martin thread but I didn't see one.

I assume he will make 4.5+ on this deal based on what Orpik and Stralman got last year.

 

[canadianguy77]

Ducks fan here. Just curious, what do you guys think of Martin. Is he still a steady D? Has his play fallen off a lot?

I think the Ducks are moving on from Beauchemin. He really hasn't been the same since his knee injury. Martin seems like a guy who could step in and take those minutes rather than depending on Wiz to handle them. Martin also seems like a 2 way to D first type D man. Something I think the Ducks could use more of. I would have posted in a Martin thread but I didn't see one.

I assume he will make 4.5+ on this deal based on what Orpik and Stralman got last year.

If you want a guy who does everything in his power to avoid a hit, then he might be good for you.

The book on PM has been out for a long time. He has a pretty good gap, and is awesome on the puck if he doesn't have someone bearing down on him in the corners. If he has time and space, his first pass is about as good as his salary indicates. He's nothing special on the PP, but he will save you some goals on the kill because of his stick. He's a really good RS player, but he's probably not going to elevate in the playoffs.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Easily kept Gonch, strictly for his PP prowess.
Would've signed Martin and Gonch.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Signing Martin and Michalek was huge at the time and even in hindsight I still make those moves. With the emergence of Letang, and Gonch's waning defensive ability, the choice was obvious.

 

[Guins71]

Why does the media in this town insist on bringing in has beens and 1 year patches to fix this team. Mark Madden mentioned Gonchar and Mark Madden was stoked about adding Erhoff. Months later he says it was a bad signing and this would be, too. It's time to let these young guys play. Quit trying to patch this team with washed up veterans who end up playing prominently in the playoffs and are outmatched and outhustled.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Ehrhoff wasn't a has-been. He played 79 games with Buffalo the previous year. No one could have predicted he'd only play 49 here and miss the playoffs.

 

[Guins71]

Ehrhoff wasn't a has-been. He played 79 games with Buffalo the previous year. No one could have predicted he'd only play 49 here and miss the playoffs.

Poor wording on my part for him, but he certainly wasn't needed. They drafted these young players and they should play them. That 4 million spent on him would have looked real nice spent on a winger.

 

[gordie]

Ducks fan here. Just curious, what do you guys think of Martin. Is he still a steady D? Has his play fallen off a lot?

I think the Ducks are moving on from Beauchemin. He really hasn't been the same since his knee injury. Martin seems like a guy who could step in and take those minutes rather than depending on Wiz to handle them. Martin also seems like a 2 way to D first type D man. Something I think the Ducks could use more of. I would have posted in a Martin thread but I didn't see one.

I assume he will make 4.5+ on this deal based on what Orpik and Stralman got last year.

Martin is alright but we need to move on from recycled guys and players over 30. Never felt Martin was the type of a player you can win a cup with but at least he won't make you want to pull your hair out like Simon Despres does.

 

[Phil68]

You mean Malkin has never been the same because that has been a bigger problem.

Regarding that statement... Malkin in 2011-12 season...
Game G A Points
2011–12 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 75 50 59 109

Hmmm

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Ducks fan here. Just curious, what do you guys think of Martin. Is he still a steady D? Has his play fallen off a lot?

I think the Ducks are moving on from Beauchemin. He really hasn't been the same since his knee injury. Martin seems like a guy who could step in and take those minutes rather than depending on Wiz to handle them. Martin also seems like a 2 way to D first type D man. Something I think the Ducks could use more of. I would have posted in a Martin thread but I didn't see one.

I assume he will make 4.5+ on this deal based on what Orpik and Stralman got last year.

Martin is about as bland as they come, honestly a guy I think you will never win a cup with in the playoffs. Also you're way off base he will easily be paid 5.5+ on a long term deal. There is no way in hell he has to accept a discount.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

How is this even a debate? Gonchar was on an obvious decline 2010, and almost single handedly lost game 7 to Montreal that year. Martin was a top 2 D-man on almost any team and a staple on the team USA Olympic D-core. Not to mention that Pens had Letang and Goligoski waiting for playing time.

Considering how much everyone here complains that young guys don't play enough, it's surprising that some people think that keeping a 35 year old, 1 dimensional, Gonchar was beneficial while Letang and Goligoski were drafted and groomed to fill his role.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

How is this even a debate? Gonchar was on an obvious decline 2010, and almost single handedly lost game 7 to Montreal that year. Martin was a top 2 D-man on almost any team and a staple on the team USA Olympic D-core. Not to mention that Pens had Letang and Goligoski waiting for playing time.

Considering how much everyone here complains that young guys don't play enough, it's surprising that some people think that keeping a 35 year old, 1 dimensional, Gonchar was beneficial while Letang and Goligoski were drafted and groomed to fill his role.

the grass is greener

 

[Penguinator]

How is this even a debate? Gonchar was on an obvious decline 2010 time.

Yet Habs GM was stupid enough to get him last season!

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Yet Habs GM was stupid enough to get him last season!

They acquired him as a #6-7 Dman. He was mostly a healthy scratch. Not a relevant comparison at all.

 

[Penguinator]

They acquired him as a #6-7 Dman. He was mostly a healthy scratch. Not a relevant comparison at all.

My point is that if he was already on the decline in 2010 why acquire him as depth when he was clearly done in 2015?

 

[Boocock]

The Pens made the right decision - it just didn't pay off in the end. Martin over Gonchar 100% of the time.

 

[Gurglesons]

My point is that if he was already on the decline in 2010 why acquire him as depth when he was clearly done in 2015?

Because they were hoping he would spark their league worst power play. Which he didn't.

 

[#66]

Martin is about as bland as they come, honestly a guy I think you will never win a cup with in the playoffs. Also you're way off base he will easily be paid 5.5+ on a long term deal. There is no way in hell he has to accept a discount.

I don't even give him that much credit. These past playoffs was just a Martin horror show in a nutshell. Soft around the net, opposing players always come out of his corner with the puck and he can't play against puck heavy teams.

I haven't hated a Pen this much since TBo.

 

[Penguinator]

I don't even give him that much credit. These past playoffs was just a Martin horror show in a nutshell. Soft around the net, opposing players always come out of his corner with the puck and he can't play against puck heavy teams.

I haven't hated a Pen this much since TBo.

I'm gonna kinda play the Devil's advocate here but Martin was very productive 2 playoffs ago. With our decimated Dcorp(se...) this time around, he became a big target & basically just got smaller & smaller.

 

[#66]

I'm gonna kinda play the Devil's advocate here but Martin was very productive 2 playoffs ago. With our decimated Dcorp(se...) this time around, he became a big target & basically just got smaller & smaller.

Yeah but even at his best he's only OK. He gets beat defensively because he's weak and doesn't produce enough offense. His claim to fame is his outlet passing and that's not exactly at a Zubov level. He's OK 1 on 1 in the neutral zone and that's about it.

Leopold could have done that for a lot less.

I think he's even a target on the ice. Teams know to put it in his corner because its an easy get.

The ideal answer to 2010 is none of the above or just Zib... but I bet Gonch would have taken a little less to stay with the Pens.