2010 keep gonchar or sign Martin?

[billybudd]

Martin was the right call (though Hamhuis, if we could have signed him, would have been even better). He had one brutal year for us and another so-so one to go along with three strong seasons. Gonchar actually cost more money up front and fell off a cliff almost immediately.

Martin doesn't have a "sexy" game, but he's a very capable minute-eater. Like a starting pitcher that can be counted on to throw 7 competent innings every time it's his game to start, but who doesn't strike anybody out. There's no glory in that, but there's plenty of value.

 

[Cherpak]

Hindsight being what it is, I still take Martin. Gonchar was clearly on the downslope of his career as many have already pointed out. Now if the Penguins would have known that Martin was only going to give them 3 out of 5 yrs of a contract I'm sure they would have looked elsewhere. I know Martin wasn't an offensive juggernaut but christ was he a horrible option to replace Gonch on the pp. The Penguins suffered greatly in that regard.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Truthfully, I feel like Martin getting as much powerplay time as he has is almost entirely on the Penguins and their stupidity. It's not a position he should even be put in unless out of sheer desperation.

I don't hate Martin. He's mostly-steady (though when he isn't... he REALLY isn't), can move the puck decently and can eat minutes without getting too tapped out. More or less right in the second pairing wheelhouse. But after watching him for years, I'd rather have a guy with at least one or two BIG strengths and some other middling qualities that can be hidden/worked around than a guy who does everything just-pretty-good.

In essence, he's yet another painfully vanilla player on a roster full of largely the same. I'm not necessarily looking for "flash." Rather I'm looking for players that bring consistent and tangible strengths that are easily slotted into specific team roles. Martin is basically the old adage "jack-of-all-trades... master of none" incarnate. I feel like a team full of players like that win you very little of real importance.

 

[eXile59]

The PP drop off had a lot more to it then just Gonchar leaving. Some where along the line Sid and Geno got it in their heads that every goal had to be a highlight goal.

 

[Cherpak]

The PP drop off had a lot more to it then just Gonchar leaving. Some where along the line Sid and Geno got it in their heads that every goal had to be a highlight goal.

I'll agree to disagree. Gonch leaving KILLED the pp. Gene and Sid were still on the the same pp back then. What changed? Martin replacing him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't mean to ruffle feathers, here. The guy is my favorite player on the team and easily the BEST player on the team. But I would say that the biggest reason for powerplay failure or at least huge inconsistency is that Crosby seems entrenched on that RHB... which is absolutely where Malkin should be.

Crosby does more or less everything better than Geno. But not that.

Honorable mention to Letang and his years-long highlight reel of powerplay bungling.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Yeah it was obvious Gonchar was on the decline when he left. He was getting walked by Moen in the playoffs. Martin has taken so much hate by this fan base and it doesn't make sense.

Martin leaving is going to hurt us more than people realize.

I want us to re-sign Martin.

 

[Cherpak]

I want us to re-sign Martin.

Absolutely not. Martin is well into his declining yrs and he will be looking for that last big contract. The Penguins shouldn't even answer the phone.

 

[eXile59]

I'll agree to disagree. Gonch leaving KILLED the pp. Gene and Sid were still on the the same pp back then. What changed? Martin replacing him.

And Letang, Erhoff, DP, Geno, Michalek. We have tried a thousand things at point since he left. I refuse to believe he is the only player we have had come through here that can qb a power play. The issue is much larger. He only hid that.

 

[eXile59]

I want us to re-sign Martin.

I do too as long as it's two years but I doubt he'll take it.

 

[Cherpak]

I don't mean to ruffle feathers, here. The guy is my favorite player on the team and easily the BEST player on the team. But I would say that the biggest reason for powerplay failure or at least huge inconsistency is that Crosby seems entrenched on that RHB... which is absolutely where Malkin should be.

Crosby does more or less everything better than Geno. But not that.

Honorable mention to Letang and his years-long highlight reel of powerplay bungling.

Agreed. Geno on the rh half wall was deadly with that shot. Gonch was able to feed it to him on a platter almost every time. It was almost unfair to opposing goalies...almost.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Absolutely not. Martin is well into his declining yrs and he will be looking for that last big contract. The Penguins shouldn't even answer the phone.

I agree with eXile59 here

I do too as long as it's two years but I doubt he'll take it.

If he wants that big contract with term and money then it makes too much sense to move on and find another defenseman on the market.

 

[Cherpak]

And Letang, Erhoff, DP, Geno, Michalek. We have tried a thousand things at point since he left. I refuse to believe he is the only player we have had come through here that can qb a power play. The issue is much larger. He only hid that.

Like I said thats your opinion.

As far as Letang? He was or never will be in the same sentence as Gonch as a pp qb. Ehroff was misused greatly by MJ one the many reasons I'm not a fan of his. Geno should be on the rh half boards so long as you have a qb that can feed him the puck. Michalek? He's about as effective as Martin on the pp. Michalek was brought in to be a defensive stalwart with a bit of offense.

DP is the closest option we have had since Gonchar left. But even if we keep him he is still yrs away from being that pp qb this team so desperately misses.

 

[Cherpak]

I agree with eXile59 here



If he wants that big contract with term and money then it makes too much sense to move on and find another defenseman on the market.

I'm sure you do. You already mentioned you wanted him re-signed. I happen to disagree. I have read nothing on this message board but people whining that we have to get younger. Let the kids start playing and learning. And yet some here want to re-sign a guy that is clearly declining? You want a veteran replacement in the top 4? Great. Go after Sekera, Petry, or Franson in free agency. All three are younger with much better options. I have seen 5 yrs of Martin, I'm done with him.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

I'm sure you do. You already mentioned you wanted him re-signed. I happen to disagree. I have read nothing on this message board but people whining that we have to get younger. Let the kids start playing and learning. And yet some here want to re-sign a guy that is clearly declining? You want a veteran replacement in the top 4? Great. Go after Sekera, Petry, or Franson in free agency. All three are younger with much better options. I have seen 5 yrs of Martin, I'm done with him.

I'd be fine with that as well but you talk as if Marin is just some easily replaceable player who means nothing to this team. He is very underrated and we better make sure we're getting a good replacement. Sekera would be an a good idea but LA will probably sign him, same with Petry and Montreal. Franson is not an upgrade over Martin and I don't even know if Petry would be.

So that's why if Martin is willing to take a 2 year deal, you sign him without thinking twice. Unless you're banking on Cole to pick up Martin's work, which could happen but is unknown.

 

[Cherpak]

I'd be fine with that as well but you talk as if Marin is just some easily replaceable player who means nothing to this team. He is very underrated and we better make sure we're getting a good replacement. Sekera would be an a good idea but LA will probably sign him, same with Petry and Montreal. Franson is not an upgrade over Martin and I don't even know if Petry would be.

So that's why if Martin is willing to take a 2 year deal, you sign him without thinking twice.

As I said before, agree to disagree. I don't want any part of Martin any longer. But knowing this dumb ass staff, I'm sure they will try. The clown and his circus will continue to ruin this organization.

I have been a fan long before "the dark ages", early 2000's but it is getting harder and harder for me to care any longer. I'll always love the Penguins, but I can't get behind this staff and I have no hope they will do what it takes to return it to contender status.

 

[BHD]

I want us to re-sign Martin.

But he isn't physical enough.

Ideally, Despres would be on the roster, Martin would be signed to a new contract, and Scuderi would be thrown into a dumpster.

 

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

No. Gonchar had to go. It was time.

Remember how horrible he was when we beat Ottawa in the 2013 playoffs? I can't believe he played another two years after that, we just victimized him every shift. I actually felt bad for him.

Ya I remember that but I have a feeling if he would of never left his decline would of been much later in his career.

 

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

I don't mean to ruffle feathers, here. The guy is my favorite player on the team and easily the BEST player on the team. But I would say that the biggest reason for powerplay failure or at least huge inconsistency is that Crosby seems entrenched on that RHB... which is absolutely where Malkin should be.



Crosby does more or less everything better than Geno. But not that.

Honorable mention to Letang and his years-long highlight reel of powerplay bungling.

Well said friend. Geno is my favorited player and when he's on top of his game I think because of his size n reach he's a better player than Crosby. Remember all the pp goals sid scored infront of the net with geno blasting shots from the right circle? Kris letang is an awesome d and played great under Mj system but he's not a pp quarterback. He can get into the zone with speed but doesn't have that cannon shot from the point that puts teams on their toes like
Gonch had. But obviously I'd rather have him the sarge the past couple
Years n beyond

 

[clefty]

Ya I remember that but I have a feeling if he would of never left his decline would of been much later in his career.

The decline had already started. He was horrible here at the end as well.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Do people forget how bad Gonchar was in the playoffs against Montreal? It was a clear sign that his decline has begun, and fell off a cliff.

Martin was absolutely the right choice. And the PP has not suffered much without Gonchar. And at the time, who would have thought that a team with Malkin, Crosby, and Letang needs Gonchar to have a successful PP.

 

[IcedCapp]

The decline had already started. He was horrible here at the end as well.

He was a PP specialist at that point.

 

[penguins2946*]

Yeah, Gonchar sucked in his last season. Maybe it was the knee injury he played through in the playoffs the year before, but his play took a sharp step back. It was definitely the right choice to sign Martin (who played like a top pair D for the last 3 seasons) instead of signing Gonchar. It would have been really nice to get both Hamhuis and Martin, but that simply wasn't going to happen.

 

[#66]

Zib over both and that's all that was needed.

I would take Gonch on a shorter term deal than Martin got.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If you want to truly fix the PP both need to be separated.

A good portion of the PP is those two jockeying for RW board supremacy.

I do agree with BlindWilly about Geno being the better fit there, but only due to Geno's shot being better, and Sid isn't a slouch at it himself if he would actually use it more.

The last part of the reason the PP is bad is just holding onto the puck too long and standing still.

I want neither Gonchar or Martin here. They are just not what's going to help this team, other than, Maybe that perks up Geno having his buddy back. At that point he's playing the #6 spot. If they get nobody that will give Geno some comfort. He is worth that cost on one year deals at 2.5.