2010 keep gonchar or sign Martin?

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

Personally i would of kept gonchar. The pp was never the same after he left. I love Martina game too and realize he's about 5 years younger. Gonchar was a huge part of this team. Him signing a 3 year deal with Ottawa at 5.5 per vs Martin 5 years at 5 million? Hmmm

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[gordie]

Personally i would of kept gonchar. The pp was never the same after he left. I love Martina game too and realize he's about 5 years younger. Gonchar was a huge part of this team. Him signing a 3 year deal with Ottawa at 5.5 per vs Martin 5 years at 5 million? Hmmm

You mean Malkin has never been the same because that has been a bigger problem.

 

[IcedCapp]

i think the Pens needed something that Martin brought. I don't know that they needed to sign Martin AND Michalek. Maybe you look at Gonchar for what he got vs signing Michalek for what he got.

But in the end, they let him go early (not like Gonch didn't eventually fall off the cliff), which is always better than letting a player go late (see every subsequent roster decision)

 

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

You mean Malkin has never been the same because that has been a bigger problem.

Another good point I know but didn't mention. Except for that 2012 season when he came off his knee injury and into training camp actually motivated because he knew that sid was still out with a concussion his heart and decision making AT TIMES makes me mad. 2012 regular season malkin was the best geno we saw after the cup n sarge left.

 

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

i think the Pens needed something that Martin brought. I don't know that they needed to sign Martin AND Michalek. Maybe you look at Gonchar for what he got vs signing Michalek for what he got.

But in the end, they let him go early (not like Gonch didn't eventually fall off the cliff), which is always better than letting a player go late (see every subsequent roster decision)

Ya I thought of why we needed michalek. He wasn't that good for us. He would always leave his feet and try to block shots and passes at times when he should just stay up. I remember vs Tampa in the playoffs the Lightning players had caught up to it and used it a couple times to score.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Ya I thought of why we needed michalek. He wasn't that good for us. He would always leave his feet and try to block shots and passes at times when he should just stay up. I remember vs Tampa in the playoffs the Lightning players had caught up to it and used it a couple times to score.

Michalek wasn't good because of Bylsma's **** system. Martin was terrible that first year also.

If you want to see a lot of defensive lulz go back to that Tampa series and focus on Martin. Pretty sure he was the main reason we lost 3 of those games. Just awful that series.

 

[IcedCapp]

Ya I thought of why we needed michalek. He wasn't that good for us. He would always leave his feet and try to block shots and passes at times when he should just stay up. I remember vs Tampa in the playoffs the Lightning players had caught up to it and used it a couple times to score.

Michalek is a good player, but he did not fit in with the Pens system/style. This is a problem the Penguins have repeatedly made over the years. They acquire players as if this was NHL15, where you simply plug players in, regardless of any context or style or whatever, and they just play to their rating.

 

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

Michalek wasn't good because of Bylsma's **** system. Martin was terrible that first year also.

Ya ur right about that. Defence men hate his system. Say it's way to complex.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

There's a ton of signings/trades/draft picks we could pore over for hours on end.

Gonchar was well into a precipitous decline. We needed to bolster the defensive side of our blueline. It was neither the right nor wrong decision to go after Martin. Pretty inconsequential, I think. The only thing we really missed from Gonchar was his ability to put pucks into Geno's wheelhouse for one-timers on the PP. Something nobody's been able to do since, and Geno's goal totals have suffered because of it (50g season aside, obviously).

 

[Neighbourhood Sniper]

If geno has another year like this past one next season then I defiantly would explore moving him even though his value might be a little less then it is at this very moment

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

If geno has another year like this past one next season then I defiantly would explore moving him even though his value might be a little less then it is at this very moment

What a rebellious and idiotic idea.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

What a rebellious and idiotic idea.

Sid hasn't done **** in the last 5 years in the playoffs. Maybe we should move him too.

 

[IcedCapp]

why is a discussion about re-signing an old Gonchar turning into a discussion about Geno?

Do people really think Geno needs a "russian" to play well?

He's had great seasons since Gonchar left. Gonchar's corpse would not help him right now. What would happen now, when he's done done done done done? Just pay him to hold Malkin's hand?

Geno is an adult and a professional. He doesn't need Gonchar to make him gooder.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

why is a discussion about re-signing an old Gonchar turning into a discussion about Geno?

Do people really think Geno needs a "russian" to play well?

He's had great seasons since Gonchar left. Gonchar's corpse would not help him right now. What would happen now, when he's done done done done done? Just pay him to hold Malkin's hand?

Geno is an adult and a professional. He doesn't need Gonchar to make him gooder.

Agreed. Chemistry is one thing, and it's importance is very real, but let's not go ahead and blow it out of proportions.

Sid got on just fine without Armstrong. Geno didn't fall into a dark depression and drop off the face of the Earth after Gonchar, or Neal.

We need to find the right players, not hang onto the same ones until they're well beyond their expiration just because of chemistry.

 

[PensPlz]

Michalek wasn't good because of Bylsma's **** system. Martin was terrible that first year also.

If you want to see a lot of defensive lulz go back to that Tampa series and focus on Martin. Pretty sure he was the main reason we lost 3 of those games. Just awful that series.

I agree about Michalek. I really liked him, even now, but he didn't fit under Bylsma. Not sure if Shero consulted Bylsma or his scouts before singing him or not. Gonch instead of Michalek with Martin as well would of been the right way to go.

But I wouldn't mind Michalek back now under Johnston. I think he'd fit in here a lot better now, especially if we buyout Scuds and send Lovejoy packing. Michalek - Cole would be a solid bottom pairing.

 

[Penguinator]

I agree about Michalek. I really liked him, even now, but he didn't fit under Bylsma. Not sure if Shero consulted Bylsma or his scouts before singing him or not. Gonch instead of Michalek with Martin as well would of been the right way to go.

But I wouldn't mind Michalek back now under Johnston. I think he'd fit in here a lot better now, especially if we buyout Scuds and send Lovejoy packing. Michalek - Cole would be a solid bottom pairing.

Lovejoy isn't going anywhere, not next season anyway. That would be PFO admitting their gaffe way more than they did so far, + he's good with Pouliot on a 3rd pair. Michalek with (an affordable) Martin wouldn't be bad on a 2nd pair imho, Cole being a nice temporary patch for both pairs in case of injuries or if Pouliot/Lovejoy or Michalek are going through rough times. Scudz has to be bought out for sure.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The issue with finding stop gap type guys for our defense is that they will all want long-term deals. Petry, Franson, Sekera, Martin, etc. will all want the security of 4+ year deals.

I don't want to give any of those ****ers that kind of term, and if that means we don't get any of them, so be it. I'd rather "miss out" on them than to lock ourselves into that kind of a commitment with a non-core player.

 

[clefty]

No. Gonchar had to go. It was time.

Remember how horrible he was when we beat Ottawa in the 2013 playoffs? I can't believe he played another two years after that, we just victimized him every shift. I actually felt bad for him.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Sign Martin, and dare I say...AINEC

Truthfully, after Gonchar just let Moen skate by him in Game 7, he basically gave up, then he went into the Summer wanting a raise, Martin is a better defenseman and came cheaper.

 

[Liquid Gel]

Personally i would of kept gonchar. The pp was never the same after he left. I love Martina game too and realize he's about 5 years younger. Gonchar was a huge part of this team. Him signing a 3 year deal with Ottawa at 5.5 per vs Martin 5 years at 5 million? Hmmm

Would keeping Gonchar instead Martin improved the Pens?

I think the question can be answered by asking would or could the outcomes of the past 5 seasons turned out worse than the early playoff exits?

Would they have been worse in the regular season ? Maybe marginally

Would they have made the playoffs each year? Yes

Would they have made it farther in the playoffs? Couldn't have made it much less than a couple of 2nd round exits

So the answer I think it they would have been better of keeping Goncharbecause what gains did having Martin get them?

 

[The Greatest 101]

Agreed. Chemistry is one thing, and it's importance is very real, but let's not go ahead and blow it out of proportions.

Sid got on just fine without Armstrong. Geno didn't fall into a dark depression and drop off the face of the Earth after Gonchar, or Neal.

We need to find the right players, not hang onto the same ones until they're well beyond their expiration just because of chemistry.

If the Pens decide to stick with MJ,they better trade Geno.Johnston's system kills offense.Geno is worth 12M under an offensive system,but 6M under a defensive system.Basically a luxury for a team which has no depth and plays under a defensive system.

 

[TNT87]

No. Gonchar had to go. It was time.

Remember how horrible he was when we beat Ottawa in the 2013 playoffs? I can't believe he played another two years after that, we just victimized him every shift. I actually felt bad for him.

I feel the same way. Gonchar has some terrific years in Pittsburgh but signing a declining old defenseman wasn't wise.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's fair to point out that the "Martin era" didn't bear any fruit. But Gonchar was heading the wrong direction in his last year, here. And only got precipitously worse, after that. The Penguins made the right move letting him walk.

That said... man... the guy was a huge piece of the puzzle on this team in the years before that. Much, much, much higher-impact defenseman than Martin on even Martin's very best of days. His work on the powerplay, especially, was a real treat to watch. They haven't had a player excel in that area like Gonchar did ever since... not even Malkin.

 

[Liquid Gel]

It's fair to point out that the "Martin era" didn't bear any fruit. But Gonchar was heading the wrong direction in his last year, here. And only got precipitously worse, after that. The Penguins made the right move letting him walk.

That said... man... the guy was a huge piece of the puzzle on this team in the years before that. Much, much, much higher-impact defenseman than Martin on even Martin's very best of days. His work on the powerplay, especially, was a real treat to watch. They haven't had a player excel in that area like Gonchar did ever since... not even Malkin.

I agree with this. 100%

Who could they have signed that would have a Gomchar like impact taking Gonchar's decline into account? Suter? But I don't think he would made the same impact

 

[eXile59]

Yeah it was obvious Gonchar was on the decline when he left. He was getting walked by Moen in the playoffs. Martin has taken so much hate by this fan base and it doesn't make sense.

Martin leaving is going to hurt us more than people realize.