2010 keep gonchar or sign Martin?

[penguins2946*]

Zib over both and that's all that was needed.

I would take Gonch on a shorter term deal than Martin got.

Signing Gonchar at Martin's contract would have been better than us signing Michalek. He was a horrendous fit for our system. I have no idea how you think signing Michalek was better than Martin.

 

[ColePens]

I hate to throw a dagger straight through the debate, but d-zone coverage and coaching was more of an issue than the individuals. So ultimately I don't think it mattered who came in. Very poor defensive zone scheme was a major issue.

 

[#66]

I hate to throw a dagger straight through the debate, but d-zone coverage and coaching was more of an issue than the individuals. So ultimately I don't think it mattered who came in. Very poor defensive zone scheme was a major issue.

Very true. Zib looked good before and after his stint with the Pens. Martin was getting worse with the Devils and has had 1 ok season for the Pens.

Just adding in that Martin at his best is still as soft as wet tissue paper and his corner is a focal point for teams in the playoffs. Let me quit now before this years Rangers series comes to haunt me...

 

[penguins2946*]

Very true. Zib looked good before and after his stint with the Pens. Martin was getting worse with the Devils and has had 1 ok season for the Pens.

Just adding in that Martin at his best is still as soft as wet tissue paper and his corner is a focal point for teams in the playoffs. Let me quit now before this years Rangers series comes to haunt me...

Uh have you watched him like at all? He's been excellent for 3 seasons now...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the truth is comfortably between "1 OK season" and "excellent for three seasons."

 

[IcedCapp]

I hate to throw a dagger straight through the debate, but d-zone coverage and coaching was more of an issue than the individuals. So ultimately I don't think it mattered who came in. Very poor defensive zone scheme was a major issue.

This is true, but it's still falls on the management team to understand that. There were decent fits for the Pens' system and Z wasn't one of them. Of course, a better system, and a reduced role, could/would have extended Gonch's usefulness, but I still like the decision to move on from him when they did

 

[Penguinator]

Uh have you watched him like at all? He's been excellent for 3 seasons now...

...and as far as playoffs goes, he was excellent production wise last season.

If he wants a 4 years contract at his age then **** him, but for 2y/4m per season, i'm a taker & if he's not a corpse after that, 1y2-3m & that's it.

 

[penguins2946*]

I think the truth is comfortably between "1 OK season" and "excellent for three seasons."

How hasn't he been excellent for 3 seasons? He was amazing in 12-13 and very good in each of the last 2 years for us. He did have a bad playoff run this year, but his playoff runs in 2013 and 2014 were very good as well. I think people are just letting his bad playoff run this year cover up the good he did before.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I've already posted in this thread on why, in my opinion, you cannot justifiably call a defenseman of Paul Martin's ilk "excellent." He's well-rounded, maybe. But he isn't excellent at anything. And I really think saying that he's played at a consistently high level for three seasons straight is disingenuous, at best.

 

[IcedCapp]

I've already posted in this thread on why, in my opinion, you cannot justifiably call a defenseman of Paul Martin's ilk "excellent." He's well-rounded, maybe. But he isn't excellent at anything. And I really think saying that he's played at a consistently high level for three seasons straight is disingenuous, at best.

I dunno, he was a good+ #2 this year, he did for orpik what Despres did for Scuderi, and was really good against top competition (always good against Tavares and Ovechkin) and on the PK.

Sucked on the pp, had a **** shot, wasn't great in the o-zone, and needed to be paired with a physical presence, but if he had been with Letang the entire time, I feel like we'd look back at that pair fondly.

 

[plaidchuck]

Yeah guys like zib and Martin coming here and sucking at first and letang running around like a chicken with his head cut off should have sent red flags to Shero. I think his downfall was not being enough of a micromanager with bylsma.

Still I agree with letting gonchar, talbot, and malone go, they got stupid money that the pens wouldn't match.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's all good sense, IC. Not much I can disagree with, there. To be clear... I mostly DO look back at Martin fondly. I don't think he's the kind of guy that is going to really put your defensive corps over the top (which I had high hopes for when he was acquired... probably my fault) but he's a guy who will certainly help steady things.

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs a bit too finely, here. I just don't see anything about the guy as "excellent." And I don't see any sense in bringing him back in (especially since he doesn't seem interested) unless it's at an impossibly discount rate. He just isn't the kind of player you bend over backwards for, IMO.

 

[IcedCapp]

That's all good sense, IC. Not much I can disagree with, there. To be clear... I mostly DO look back at Martin fondly. I don't think he's the kind of guy that is going to really put your defensive corps over the top (which I had high hopes for when he was acquired... probably my fault) but he's a guy who will certainly help steady things.

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs a bit too finely, here. I just don't see anything about the guy as "excellent." And I don't see any sense in bringing him back in (especially since he doesn't seem interested) unless it's at an impossibly discount rate. He just isn't the kind of player you bend over backwards for, IMO.

I think I can agree with you. He's not elite. He's very good. I think every team can use a guy like him, but he's a complementary player; a strong defensive player who can move the puck. But he isn't going to carry the unit. He's not Letang. If Maatta becomes Martin with better play in the ozone, I'll be happy.

Also think it's time to move on from him.

 

[SweetStache]

How about 2014 - Keep Jokinen or sign Ehrhoff?

I know most loved the Ehrhoff signing when it happened but did we really need another Dman when we had just traded Malkin's wing for Crosby's? Geno needed (needs) someone to play with and Jokinen was as good as any guy on the roster or available in free agency for that spot. Plus he was versatile enough to play anywhere in the lineup.

Even if healthy for 82 games I doubt Ehrhoff has the impact on this team that JJ would have had playing next to Malkin or centering the 2nd line when Geno was out.

 

[Penguinator]

How about 2014 - Keep Jokinen or sign Ehrhoff?

I know most loved the Ehrhoff signing when it happened but did we really need another Dman when we had just traded Malkin's wing for Crosby's? Geno needed (needs) someone to play with and Jokinen was as good as any guy on the roster or available in free agency for that spot. Plus he was versatile enough to play anywhere in the lineup.

Even if healthy for 82 games I doubt Ehrhoff has the impact on this team that JJ would have had playing next to Malkin or centering the 2nd line when Geno was out.

We'll never know 'cause Ehrh-off was hardly ever healthy but i'm with you with JJ otherwise.

 

[Human]

sign Martin, no brainer...

 

[Ugene Magic]

sign Martin, no brainer...

Probably the biggest reason for not signing Martin is trying to get bigger (in comes the Despres mocking) to go along with getting younger, but not necessarily ELC youth. Guys in there mid to late 20's with a good amount of experience.

 

[Human]

Probably the biggest reason for not signing Martin is trying to get bigger (in comes the Despres mocking) to go along with getting younger, but not necessarily ELC youth. Guys in their mid to late 20's with a good amount of experience.

this is a perfect exemple of 20/20 hindsight for me. and for most of the users in here.

I remember that 2010 summer perfectly. like 99% of the people in here were totally supporting the move and for good reasons. Gonchar just had a ****** season and an abysmal playoff, and aside from Dan Hamhuis (who wanted to be a Nuck anyway), Paul Martin was the best guy available.

I probably whine about most of the moves our GMs have made, but in this case I was totally on board with it. and with the Michalek signing too btw...

edit: sure the PP QB thing is and even back then was an issue. but you'd think a PP with Malkin and Crosby should manage to overcome that...

 

[Cherpak]

Uh have you watched him like at all? He's been excellent for 3 seasons now...

Your definition of "excellent" is much different than mine.

 

[Cherpak]

this is a perfect exemple of 20/20 hindsight for me. and for most of the users in here.

I remember that 2010 summer perfectly. like 99% of the people in here were totally supporting the move and for good reasons. Gonchar just had a ****** season and an abysmal playoff, and aside from Dan Hamhuis (who wanted to be a Nuck anyway), Paul Martin was the best guy available.

I probably whine about most of the moves our GMs have made, but in this case I was totally on board with it. and with the Michalek signing too btw...

edit: sure the PP QB thing is and even back then was an issue. but you'd think a PP with Malkin and Crosby should manage to overcome that...

And yet it hasn't has it?

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

So this is how bad things are for the Penguins organization and this board that we have threads like this eh!? Jesusssssss

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Personally i would of kept gonchar. The pp was never the same after he left. I love Martina game too and realize he's about 5 years younger. Gonchar was a huge part of this team. Him signing a 3 year deal with Ottawa at 5.5 per vs Martin 5 years at 5 million? Hmmm

I think the problem was that they wanted Martin and Michalek. If you just get Martin (something we needed at the time) and kept Gonchar (what, 1.5m more?) the team would have been just fine, Malkin would have had his BFF and the Pens would have still had their point man instead of us *****ing incessantly about why Letang isn't Gonchar when he isn't that type of player and so we ***** and whine about that because the square peg won't fit in the triangle hole.

Gonchar and Martin instead of Martin and Michalek would have gone a very long way for this team.

 

[Ugene Magic]

this is a perfect exemple of 20/20 hindsight for me. and for most of the users in here.

I remember that 2010 summer perfectly. like 99% of the people in here were totally supporting the move and for good reasons. Gonchar just had a ****** season and an abysmal playoff, and aside from Dan Hamhuis (who wanted to be a Nuck anyway), Paul Martin was the best guy available.

I probably whine about most of the moves our GMs have made, but in this case I was totally on board with it. and with the Michalek signing too btw...

edit: sure the PP QB thing is and even back then was an issue. but you'd think a PP with Malkin and Crosby should manage to overcome that...

Just to be clear, I supported the moves then, but this is now, and there's no 20/20 insight required to see that now Martin is not required, especially on a long termed contract at his age. The only variable working for the team is he's still not 35 and if they did sign him his contract would take effect before he did turn 35.

The bad, it will probably take a 4/5 year term deal. They walked from Orpik and Niskanen and they should do the same here.

I'm still iffy as to what side you're on because, you mention Gonchar in there, and this is the same kind of scenario, just, they provided different qualities for the team.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So this is how bad things are for the Penguins organization and this board that we have threads like this eh!? Jesusssssss

Yeah, we need more Depres threads and now Bennett is garbage and that Pouliot isn't nearly as good as we think and the non-stop Rutherford is a tool, Morehouse was on the grassy knoll and other fun fueled threads.

 

[Penguinator]

Yeah, we need more Depres threads and now Bennett is garbage and that Pouliot isn't nearly as good as we think and the non-stop Rutherford is a tool, Morehouse was on the grassy knoll and other fun fueled threads.

Same all over, as soon as the **** hit the pan, injuries, bad PP clown running it, the refs 'war', this board gradually became a magnet again for trolls to fuel the creation of this particular kind of BS that i remember having seen when Mario's career was coming to an end... 'Fun' indeed'!