2005 Draft Discussion

[leafaholix*]

As a second, he might choose New Jersey to play with his pal Zach Parise...He did live with the Parise Family for awhile and would also benefit from the close proximity to the New York Tri-State area media and Madison Avenue. (U.S. capital of advertizing).

I think places like NJ, Buffalo, and Carolina aren't going to be on top of his list.

 

[Legionnaire]

Giving Crosby to a big market team makes no sense.... if anything, put him in a small market team so that franchise can grow into a successful one... grow your fan base because of the exciting product do to an exciting young player

you watch it, atlanta will have a solid fan base and be a contending large market one day due to the likes of kovalchuk, heatley and lehtonen

Only if you want to focus on part of the problem. Crosby in a larger market means more attention and probably popularity for the league as a whole. Ratings have been going down steadily since Gretzky's retirement, and the NHL has almost lost it's entire TV market in the United States. A station like ESPN/ABC, NBC etc, only care about ratings.

If you're looking to only gain the bulk of a market share, you want it to be one of the largest. What good would an 8 share be in a city of 300,000 compared to a city of 10 million? The advertisers(the people who pay) would reach 33 times as many people in a large market, and that's just locally.

This difference would not even take into account the fascination(love or hate) that people from all over the US have with big city teams. Really, who cares about Raleigh or Columbus besides the people who live there?

 

[DARKSIDE]

I think places like NJ, Buffalo, and Carolina aren't going to be on top of his list.

I guess playing for a winning organization is not attractive? In addition, he's real tight with Zach Parise.

And I'm sure winning Stanley Cups is something else he want's to do... You think he'll accomplish that playing for the Rangers. :lol

 

[John Flyers Fan]

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1109485973322770.xml

What are the possibilities for an entry draft?

Bill Daly - We're not going to reach any determination on the draft (Tuesday). But clubs, I'm sure, will have some ideas. We generally recognize we're probably not going to stick to the draft order that was in play last year. There will have to be some kind of a lottery system.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I guess playing for a winning organization is not attractive? In addition, he lived with the Parise family and is close with Zach. And he'd reap the benefits of playing 7 miles from Manahattan. You sound like a typical Ranger fan!

New Jersey might as well be 1,000 miles from Manhattan. What perks or national endorsements have Scott Stevens or Marty Brodeur picked up because they're close to New York.

 

[DARKSIDE]

New Jersey might as well be 1,000 miles from Manhattan. What perks or national endorsements have Scott Stevens or Marty Brodeur picked up because they're close to New York.

Wrong! You think if the Devils would have won the Mario draft, he wouldn't have reaped the benefits of Manhattan? Plus Mario and the Devils would probably have won 4 or 5 cups. And I lived in Cherry Hill, who in their right mind truly considers Philly a big market anyway.

 

[Morbo]

Bill Daly - We're not going to reach any determination on the draft (Tuesday). But clubs, I'm sure, will have some ideas. We generally recognize we're probably not going to stick to the draft order that was in play last year. There will have to be some kind of a lottery system.

Nice.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Wrong! You think if the Devils would have won the Mario draft, he wouldn't have reaped the benefits of Manhattan?

I don't think Crosby will be anything like a Gratzky or a Lemieux. He'll likely be a great player, but IMO he will not be a clear cut best player in the game. More like a Brodeur, Stevens, Sakic etc.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1109485973322770.xml

What are the possibilities for an entry draft?

Bill Daly - We're not going to reach any determination on the draft (Tuesday). But clubs, I'm sure, will have some ideas. We generally recognize we're probably not going to stick to the draft order that was in play last year. There will have to be some kind of a lottery system.

I do not think that anyone thought that the draft would go 'Washington - Pittsburgh - Chicago - . . . . ' and all of the commentary from Daly and others has mentioned a lottery. It does confirm if you read between the lines that they would use the last draft's standings though, just not the outcome of the last lottery. A weighted one yet to be determined will be used.

It really is not news but was very interesting to read the comments that he had. Info has been in short supply. Thanks for the link John.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I do not think that anyone thought that the draft would go 'Washington - Pittsburgh - Chicago - . . . . ' and all of the commentary from Daly and others has mentioned a lottery. It does confirm if you read between the lines that they would use the last draft's standings though, just not the outcome of the last lottery. A weighted one yet to be determined will be used.

I don't see that at all .. he mentions teams will have some ideas ... and that a lottery will be used ... no mention at all if it will be weighted, whether 5, 14 or 30 teams will be involved in the lottery.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't see that at all .. he mentions teams will have some ideas ... and that a lottery will be used ... no mention at all if it will be weighted, whether 5, 14 or 30 teams will be involved in the lottery.

I merely stated my opinion . . . 'It does confirm if you read between the lines that they would use the last draft's standings'

I stand by my opinion that it confirms that they will not use a system of every team with an equal chance, or a system averaging 3, 5 or any other number of years, they will use last draft's standings. I then go on to say just what you did, the statement says that nothing is set in stone, though it does conflict admittedly with the earlier statements he is quoted as having made. Those were definitive according to the writer, this says the system remains up for negotiation. Which suits me fine. Of all the systems one that gives all 30 teams a chance to move around no matter how small would not be great for the Pens. I hope that it is some other system, as long as they use 2003-4 standings and a lottery. Then any other system would be better for the Pens.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

ps: This thread has 8,300 views in less than a week so obviously there is some interest. Could a Moderator sticky this thread and retitle it '2005 draft discussion' or something similar? I think that this will be a topic until they decide a draft system and then after will be talk regarding the draft.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The way I see it, the only two logical possibilities for the 2005 draft without a 2004-05 regular season are A) a weighted lottery involving all 30 teams with a shot at the top pick, or B) reverse order of regular-season finish in 2003-04 (sans any lottery of any kind), with Tampa Bay sliding down to No. 30 because of their Stanley Cup triumph. That's it. In fact, I might be a proponent of using A) for Round 1, and B) for all subsequent rounds.

Everything else that would be proposed leaves too much room for conjecture and debate. Nobody can assume that any team will be better or worse (or the status quo) following an entire off-season of moves (last summer). Sure, we have our opinions on the matter, but as Chris Berman likes to say: "That's why they play the games!"

 

[Morbo]

Thing is, if we go by Daly's comments that they're not using the 2003-2004 standings, how do you weight the lottery fairly?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Thing is, if we go by Daly's comments that they're not using the 2003-2004 standings, how do you weight the lottery fairly?

'We generally recognize we're probably not going to stick to the draft order that was in play last year. There will have to be some kind of a lottery system.'

Where do you get from that statement above that 'they're not using the 2003-2004 standings'?

 

[DARKSIDE]

I don't think Crosby will be anything like a Gratzky or a Lemieux. He'll likely be a great player, but IMO he will not be a clear cut best player in the game. More like a Brodeur, Stevens, Sakic etc.

I'm not going to argue semantics with you. As to my original post, it was in response to a Montreal fan who indicated that (if it was up to Crosby), he would pick Montreal, his favorite team and my response was to his second choice being the Devils due to his close relationship with Zach. We can all debate this until there's a draft, but ultimately, which ever team wins the right to pick him, that's were he'll have to go, not matter where we want him to go or where we believe he'd be better off going too.

 

[DARKSIDE]

I have no remorse for the rangers or the caps. Those teams drilled themselves into the ground, so why should they be rewarded? They ran their businesses like crap, and now are getting the top picks? Maybe Detroit should just trade everything away for draft picks, tank a season and get a top draft pick.

My favorite post regarding this subject.

 

[Profet]

And of course a place like Msg that could not fill it's seats with a roster full of all-stars
for several years with the highest payroll's in NHL history w/television ratings equal to 60,000 home per game and who's owner claims the most losses in the NHL supports it's team the proper way?

Let's send every young star to Msg to help the Rangers because Leetch, Richter, Messier, Jagr, Kovalev, Bure, Carter, Lindros, Holik just were not enough.

Turn off the fishstick blinders for a second.

It's not the names on the roster that draw fans. It's watching a team win night after night.
Having big names on the team means nothing when they can't reach the .500 mark.

And as I recall, Leetch, Richter, Messier, Kovalev, Holik (opposing playoff force), Bure (opposing playoff force) led to one of the most exciting playoffs in memory.

And what happened? The NHL received national coverage and was in the spotlight. Unfortunately the damn CBA expired that summer and that was the end of that.

But yes, like it or not, the Rangers and MSG are one of the places the league needs marketable teams/stars. Other places being, Chicago, Philly, Boston, LA, Detroit. I leave the canadian teams off the list because, lets face facts, big market canadian teams will always have fans, even if the fans hate them.

 

[borro]

Unless you're psychic and willing to prove it to the NHL and the 16 teams that actually made the playoffs last season, the idea to have an open lottery draft is the only sensable option.

I don't think teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, etc... deserve to come out of this with a customized CBA and expect to have an identical shot at Crosby as they had at Ovechkin and Malkin.

You want a low cap, you're not getting a top 3 pick automatically because you sucked last season. Your team was already compensated for 82 games.

So a team cannot choose to rebuild and suffer through seasons like the last one we had? Hogwash. The draft is for the worst teams to best. This lottery stuff sucks too. It is the only way to be fair. Does Toronto deserve a shot at Crosby? Never.

 

[borro]

Is there really much doubt who the 5 worst teams are?

1. Washington
2. Chicago
3. Pittsburgh
4. Carolina
5. N.Y. Rags

They should be in a lottery if there is one. Unless someone wants to claim they are worse.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Is there really much doubt who the 5 worst teams are?

1. Washington
2. Chicago
3. Pittsburgh
4. Carolina
5. N.Y. Rags

They should be in a lottery if there is one. Unless someone wants to claim they are worse.

Off the top of my head Phoenix is very much in that group too.

 

[Injektilo]

Everyone seems to be expecting Crosby to be some sort of NHL savior. He's not gonna be the next Gretzky, in today's league I just don't see there being a way to dominate like that. In addition, he'll need some amazing linemates to play with in order to dominate and he'll have to play on a wide-open style type team. Given the near fact that there'll be salary cap next season (or whenever) it does seem possible that a team will be able to keep the number of stars neccessary to allow a player to dominate.


Crosby might be another Sakic/Yzerman/Forsberg type player; skilled and constantly at the top or near the top of the scoring race, but not the next dominating superstar like 99 or 66.

So is being the next Sakic/Yzerman/Forsberg type player enough to "save hockey" in certain struggling markets? Probably not.

Plus the fact is players today very rarely spend the majority of their career with one team, especially the highly skilled ones. They get shopped around and traded around alot, I can see SC playing for a number of teams over the course of his career.


I just don't see him sparking any sort of "NHL revolution" in the US.

 

[rt]

Off the top of my head Phoenix is very much in that group too.

I think there may be something wrong with the top of your head.

 

[Legionnaire]

Is there really much doubt who the 5 worst teams are?

1. Washington
2. Chicago
3. Pittsburgh
4. Carolina
5. N.Y. Rags

They should be in a lottery if there is one. Unless someone wants to claim they are worse.

Chicago should not be there. They are a much better team than their finish last year. If you remember they had key injuries throught the season. With a healthy Thibault, a as healthy as possible Daze, their young talent like Bell, Arnason, Ruutu etc, they would have challenged for a playoff spot this year.

I have no doubt in my mind that this is one of the reasons why Wirtz did not want to play this season. He knew that if they played, they would have finished much higher.

 

[hawksfan50]

Everyone seems to be expecting Crosby to be some sort of NHL savior. He's not gonna be the next Gretzky, in today's league I just don't see there being a way to dominate like that. In addition, he'll need some amazing linemates to play with in order to dominate and he'll have to play on a wide-open style type team. Given the near fact that there'll be salary cap next season (or whenever) it does seem possible that a team will be able to keep the number of stars neccessary to allow a player to dominate.


Crosby might be another Sakic/Yzerman/Forsberg type player; skilled and constantly at the top or near the top of the scoring race, but not the next dominating superstar like 99 or 66.

So is being the next Sakic/Yzerman/Forsberg type player enough to "save hockey" in certain struggling markets? Probably not.

Plus the fact is players today very rarely spend the majority of their career with one team, especially the highly skilled ones. They get shopped around and traded around alot, I can see SC playing for a number of teams over the course of his career.


I just don't see him sparking any sort of "NHL revolution" in the US.

Are you nuts?---IF he landed in Chicago,he would be THE SAVIOUR! Heaven knows,they need one---1961 and still waiting...its almost RedSoxian in its tragedy...but since the Redsox finally won last season,ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE--though we long-suffering Chicago fans somehow suspect the hockey gods will once again dash our hopes,and the Nextky will land elsewhere...