2005 Draft Discussion

[hbk]

hbk,
it matters somewhat how Crosby develops, because if he stops producing then the whole marketing tool will be seriously diminished. That said, I agree with most of your post. Crosby doesn't have to become the next Gretzky in order to make a HUGE, huge impact on the NHL. If he even comes slightly close to Gretzky-like status on the ice, he could easily become the next Gretzky off the ice. Let's not forget that Gretzky became a household name BEFORE moving to L.A in the 1980s. If a hockey talent playing in Edmonton can become a household figure in the sports world down in the States, then a Crosby could do the same in places like Nashville, Florida, Phoenix or wherever. This is not a slight on Edmonton in the least, it's just a statement of fact. Technology and media being what they are today, it wouldn't take very long for a Crosby to become a huge marketing tool to the league--NO MATTER WHERE HE PLAYS.

From Bettman's perspective though at the very least Crosby deflects the bad publicity and is a face to the new NHL. If he may fall on his face a la Alexander Daigle (I'm not a believer of this statement) but even if that does happen by that time the league may have upward momentum on tv ratings and attendance. Hopefully, the spark of interest that Crosby would provide is carried forward with positive feedback from rule changes and increased scoring and flow of the game. Even viewed as a short-term ploy, it is still extremely good for the league.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Agreed.

And, it's hard to imagine a kid like Crosby falling flat if the NHL opened things up and became a major scoring league once again.

Of course, he could get drafted by Minnesota or New Jersey...then, all bets are off.

 

[DarthSather99]

Who cares if theres casual fans in NY? The NHL doesnt need to worry about establishing itself in NY. It needs ot worry about establshing itself in non traditonal markets.

I disagree with you here. The most successful years, boding the most interest in the NHL is when the Rangers were winning. People either LOVE the Rangers or HATE the Rangers. No matter which side you are on you will still watch. The Rangers, no matter how bad, are still one of the biggest draws on the road for the aformentioned reasons.

Crosby in NY would save the NHL. Who cares for the small market teams, no one watches them or even know who they are. You ask anyboby if they heard of the NY Rangers and they say yes. You ask someone if they heard of the Atlanta Thrashers, they say "what"?

When the Rangers won the SC they were on TV it seems everyday, going somewhere....all the nationally televised talk shows in NY, Live at Yankee games...etc.. In the media Capital of the World, the NHL was getting free promotion. Having the heir apparant to the Great Gretzky in the Media Capital of the World would garner much interest in the NHL from a casual fan.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Similarly, I would be shocked if Crosby did NOT make a serious impact on the entire sport in North America--no matter where he plays.

The media alone will ensure that his name is front and center wherever he plays for several years to come.

There is a good side to hype, after all.

Sydney's hype is due to him being promising. But make no mistake, as time goes by once he is in the NHL, the hype will begin to live or die based on his performance in that league, at that level. Sure, his name will help at first but he will still have to deliver. His hot prospect status will not carry him for years to come, IMO. I could see the media hyping his name even if he sucked his first season. But after that, it will fade unless he performs.

Hopefully you are right and he makes an impact on the entire sport on this continent. That would be great. But there's a long way to go for that to happen.

As for the people who think pressure must be put on small markets when they get good players... wow. That's just awful. This is a 30-team league. If I was an owner and the league told me I should trade a young star to a bigger market, I would tell them to go **** themselves with a Synergy stick dipped in peroxide.

 

[Captain Conservative]

Everyone in this thread is biased. If you support a winning team, you're going to want a random draft, if you support a rebuilding team, you're going to want a draft based on the 2003-2004 standings.

 

[Hab Fan]

How about letting Crosby decide where he wants to play? Instead of everyone fighting over him like he's a piece of meat.

This situation is so messed up that nobody is going to be happy no matter how its resolved. We might as well let Crosby be happy and choose his own team. I HATE the idea of using 03-04 standings to decide the 2005 order, how the hell is that fair? Nobody knows how the standings would have looked had 04-05 been played, They'd probably be very different from the 03-04 ones. So why give the crappy 03-04 teams an advantage? Screw that. I'd prefer a random 30 team draw to that.


Isnt it funny (typical) how everyone wants to use the draft-system that benefits their team the most? (I'm guilty myself) You people make me sick. LET CROSBY BE FREE!

(I'm a Habs fan )


Or hey, how about this? We put the GM's of all 30 NHL teams on a deserted Island somewhere in the pacific for 32 days. The last survivor is the winner, and gets Crosby. It could be televised, Ron McLean could be the host, they could use Hockey Sticks instead of Torch's... "Survivor: Crosby". Why not? Hockey fans have nothing else to watch during the lockout... (In case its not obvious, or your really slow, I'm not being serious in this post.. except the part about the 03-04 standings)

If Crosby could pick, he would pick Montreal with Johnson! It is widely known Montreal is their favorite teams, business issues aside.

 

[Douggy]

Yeah, compensated with a "prospect". That's like giving someone lottery tickets for Christmas. The NHL will still resume with the top 10 teams keeping their core of stars. I seriously doubt it will be competitive immediately.

You have 1500 posts on a site devoted to Hockey Prospects and then you go an trivialize their value??

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

They can still have a shot but a weighted one of course

who are you trying to kid... are you seriously saying washington and pittsburgh will be serious cup contender next year and that philly, toronto, detroit etc will be fighting to stay out of the bottom?!

Why not?
Next season, Detroit may not have Yzerman, Chelios, Joseph.
Guys like Shanahan and Lidstrom, allready showing signs of aging, are another year older and playing without a great supporting cast.
No one knows if Derian Hatcher will ever be the same. He didn't look anything like an NHL defenseman last time I saw.
Grind liners like Draper, Maltby, McCarty will be into their 30s..
Coach Dave Lewis really doesn't look so hot.
A salary cap will prevent Detroit from making any serious pickups, with Lidstrom taking up close to $10 Million himself.
I've seen teams take deep dives for no apparent reason.

COnversely, teams like Pittsburg and Washington should have some money to spend. And good players will be cheaper than they've been in maybe a decade.

 

[hbk]

As for the people who think pressure must be put on small markets when they get good players... wow. That's just awful. This is a 30-team league. If I was an owner and the league told me I should trade a young star to a bigger market, I would tell them to go **** themselves with a Synergy stick dipped in peroxide.

Fully admit it is awful. However, as long as the team is compensated fairly (Lindros type package) then I think I could live with it from an ethical and moral standpoint. Can you honestly say that you think Bettman is above such a move? In the end though you can't actually force people to do anything so it would take a hell of a deal to make an organization part with Crosby. The problem for Bettman would be to get the large market organization to cough up the assets to make it happen.

 

[Douggy]

Everyone in this thread is biased. If you support a winning team, you're going to want a random draft, if you support a rebuilding team, you're going to want a draft based on the 2003-2004 standings.

I think there are SOME people who aren't biased.

I am a Leafs fna and would love to see them get Crosby of course.

On the other hand the Kings are my second favourite team and they are pretty crappy and apparently in a small market.

 

[FlyerFire]

I am a

FLYERS fan and agree with a weighted plan.Just to eliminate my bias towards the system.I can't imagine playoff teams from 2003 being "rewarded" with a lottery pick.Thats insane.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I'm not at all a fan of rigging the draft to get Crosby in a particular market. I also feel that for this upcoming draft each of the 30 teams should have equal chance to get the top pick ... and then do a snake style draft (1-30, 30-1 etc.)

Now, if Crosby does live up to his hype, I think Los Angeles would be the best place for the NHL.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Fully admit it is awful. However, as long as the team is compensated fairly (Lindros type package) then I think I could live with it from an ethical and moral standpoint. Can you honestly say that you think Bettman is above such a move?

I don't know him enough to say. What I do think however is that he is at the service of the owners. They are his employers. I doubt he would suggest such tactics.

I also think that, even if he had the influence to do such a thing, he might not even have the motivation to do so. After all, any player who would be good enough to be a league savior will "save" the league wherever he plays. And Bettman obviously believes in expansion. For better or worse, they now have 30 teams, some of which are a bit struggling. It might actually be a good idea to send high profile talents to struggling marekt and put them on the right track.

Finally, I will say I do not see Crosby in the category of "special" phenoms yet. By that I mean the legends, those who can carry a franchise and transcend a sport like a Jordan, Gretzky, etc. It just wouldn't be very serious for Bettman to make a push for this when the guy doesn't have that much talent separating him from many other elite talents over the years.

The best prospect I have seen was Eric Lindros. And although a lot of people freaked out about his arrival to the NHL, time, development and injuries have eventually revealed that prospect business is purely speculative at best. So that's another reason to just let franchises run the show and see what happens. Can you imagine the league pressuring a deal and Crosby eventually falling off the map Kariya-style? Or worse, be an almost complete bust? It's just not worth messing with the integrity of the sport for that.

Is it worth compromising the integrity in of the league in any way (even gentle pressure) over some little dude who can barely shave and doesn't look THAT special? I say no.

 

[EroCaps]

You have 1500 posts on a site devoted to Hockey Prospects and then you go an trivialize their value??

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Cosis]

I disagree with you here. The most successful years, boding the most interest in the NHL is when the Rangers were winning. People either LOVE the Rangers or HATE the Rangers. No matter which side you are on you will still watch. The Rangers, no matter how bad, are still one of the biggest draws on the road for the aformentioned reasons.

Crosby in NY would save the NHL. Who cares for the small market teams, no one watches them or even know who they are. You ask anyboby if they heard of the NY Rangers and they say yes. You ask someone if they heard of the Atlanta Thrashers, they say "what"?

When the Rangers won the SC they were on TV it seems everyday, going somewhere....all the nationally televised talk shows in NY, Live at Yankee games...etc.. In the media Capital of the World, the NHL was getting free promotion. Having the heir apparant to the Great Gretzky in the Media Capital of the World would garner much interest in the NHL from a casual fan.

Thats a myth. The NHL lost popularity because the game became boring as hell.
Gretzky went to NY. Nobody cared. Messier, Lindros,Jagr, Kovalev. Nobody cared. Nobody cares about the NHL outside of real hockey fans. Basically a bunch of a small sports cult fans.

No offense personally meant, but New Yorkers always seem to think the sports world revolves around them. It doesnt. When was the last time the Giants or Jets won anything.Yet the NFL gets more popular every year. Why? Cause the product is good. When was the last time the Knicks won? Yet the NBA is still popular.

Btw, Baseball is losing fans now BECAUSE of New York!

The NHL lost popularity because its like watching soccer on ice now.

 

[PredsFan77*]

He should go to ::insert favorite team here::

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No offense personally meant, but New Yorkers always seem to think the sports world revolves around them. It doesnt. When was the last time the Giants or Jets won anything.Yet the NFL gets more popular every year. Why? Cause the product is good. When was the last time the Knicks won? Yet the NBA is still popular.

Btw, Baseball is losing fans now BECAUSE of New York!

The NHL lost popularity because its like watching soccer on ice now.

You got that right. I will never go to another baseball game again, and will instead spend my $$ on hockey instead. Talk about a game that is fixed, in baseball if you can not reach the upper 50th percentile in aggregate salaries you have less than 1% chance of ever winning a single playoff game. And yes that statistic is accurate, not just spouting off. The blue ribbon panel baseball asembled showed just that statistic. If you are not in the upper 25th percental you will never win a world series game. I would much rather even see it fixed for someone to get a great player than to see an entire league rigged. And yes, NY plays by the rules, but they pretty much bully the league into those rules in CBA negotiations.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Why not?
Next season, Detroit may not have Yzerman, Chelios, Joseph.
Guys like Shanahan and Lidstrom, allready showing signs of aging, are another year older and playing without a great supporting cast.
No one knows if Derian Hatcher will ever be the same. He didn't look anything like an NHL defenseman last time I saw.
Grind liners like Draper, Maltby, McCarty will be into their 30s..
Coach Dave Lewis really doesn't look so hot.
A salary cap will prevent Detroit from making any serious pickups, with Lidstrom taking up close to $10 Million himself.
I've seen teams take deep dives for no apparent reason.

COnversely, teams like Pittsburg and Washington should have some money to spend. And good players will be cheaper than they've been in maybe a decade.

That applies to the 2006 draft. Those changes to the landscape will effect the 2006 draft. We are trying to reconstruct how the 2004-2005 season would have gone. Apples and oranges.

 

[The Legend]

Nothing like creating an environment where a team like Philly, Tampa, or Calgary could get Crosby and for what reason do poorer teams suffer? Because the collective bargaining agreement expired? This totally hoses the poorer teams. It just sucks. I wonder what good teams will do the next time a CBA comes and they want a shot at a guy? Hmmm. Longshot yes. But still a shot. It's an awful idea.

You're telling me it's fair to have the same draft order?!?? Calgary had the 7th or 8th pick in 2003. If the lockout had been the next season, you're telling me you would've condoned giving Calgary the same pick? Well guess what, they shocked a lot of people and finished second best and recieved the 29th pick. Why should Washington get Ovechkin and Crosby because they had one bad season? I could argue that Washington with Ovechkin is better than half the teams, and them getting Crosby is unfair to teams like LA or Chicago because they're worse.

 

[Cosis]

You're telling me it's fair to have the same draft order?!?? Calgary had the 7th or 8th pick in 2003. If the lockout had been the next season, you're telling me you would've condoned giving Calgary the same pick? Well guess what, they shocked a lot of people and finished second best and recieved the 29th pick. Why should Washington get Ovechkin and Crosby because they had one bad season? I could argue that Washington with Ovechkin is better than half the teams, and them getting Crosby is unfair to teams like LA or Chicago because they're worse.

I dont think anybody is saying the same draft order. People are saying the same lottery teams.

You just said yourself that Calgary shocked alot of people. Someone somewhere is gonna get screwed in this deal. Its best to take the safer odds and assume the teams with the track record of losing the last year or 2 are the ones who dont get screwed.

Ovechkin makes the caps better then half the league? A guy yet to log a single minute in the NHL? To that I reply....
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/nhl19271985.html

 

[nomorekids]

I don't know him enough to say. What I do think however is that he is at the service of the owners. They are his employers. I doubt he would suggest such tactics.

I also think that, even if he had the influence to do such a thing, he might not even have the motivation to do so. After all, any player who would be good enough to be a league savior will "save" the league wherever he plays. And Bettman obviously believes in expansion. For better or worse, they now have 30 teams, some of which are a bit struggling. It might actually be a good idea to send high profile talents to struggling marekt and put them on the right track.

Finally, I will say I do not see Crosby in the category of "special" phenoms yet. By that I mean the legends, those who can carry a franchise and transcend a sport like a Jordan, Gretzky, etc. It just wouldn't be very serious for Bettman to make a push for this when the guy doesn't have that much talent separating him from many other elite talents over the years.

The best prospect I have seen was Eric Lindros. And although a lot of people freaked out about his arrival to the NHL, time, development and injuries have eventually revealed that prospect business is purely speculative at best. So that's another reason to just let franchises run the show and see what happens. Can you imagine the league pressuring a deal and Crosby eventually falling off the map Kariya-style? Or worse, be an almost complete bust? It's just not worth messing with the integrity of the sport for that.

Is it worth compromising the integrity in of the league in any way (even gentle pressure) over some little dude who can barely shave and doesn't look THAT special? I say no.

post of the year

 

[Vatican Roulette]

So for the one or 2 teams that might change you make all the others suffer? Wow, that's progress. Let's make it even harder for struggling teams to compete in the marketplace.

I'm vehemently against such a proposal.

I have no remorse for the rangers or the caps. Those teams drilled themselves into the ground, so why should they be rewarded? They ran their businesses like crap, and now are getting the top picks? Maybe Detroit should just trade everything away for draft picks, tank a season and get a top draft pick.

 

[Clash*]

You're telling me it's fair to have the same draft order?!?? Calgary had the 7th or 8th pick in 2003. If the lockout had been the next season, you're telling me you would've condoned giving Calgary the same pick? Well guess what, they shocked a lot of people and finished second best and recieved the 29th pick. Why should Washington get Ovechkin and Crosby because they had one bad season? I could argue that Washington with Ovechkin is better than half the teams, and them getting Crosby is unfair to teams like LA or Chicago because they're worse.

Here's a solid arguement, imo, as to why the lottery teams should stay the same. How many of the past few Stanley Cup losers have been one hit wonders with their runs? Ducks? 'Canes? How many teams have been preseason favorites only to horribly bomb that year? Most recent memory bein San Jose two seasons ago. Let the '04 lottery teams stay the same and the playoff teams stay the same, or break them down into three groups of ten and do seperate lotteries that way. Fact is, and talkin as a Panther fan, some franchises just don't improve overnite with any number of high picks and whatever free agents they may sign.

post of the year

I agree with that sentiment whole heartedly. How many first overall hypes have gone on to be average players at best compared to the rest of their draft year?

 

[Cosis]

I have no remorse for the rangers or the caps. Those teams drilled themselves into the ground, so why should they be rewarded? They ran their businesses like crap, and now are getting the top picks? Maybe Detroit should just trade everything away for draft picks, tank a season and get a top draft pick.

The Caps ran themselves into the ground? More like they tried to win for several seasons while their owner took a colossal beating like you or anyone here cannot even ever possibly imagine in your wildest dreams.They finally went in rebuild mode.

The Rangers tried to build a winner by buying the best players that money can buy every year. You cannot seriously say neither team tried to build a winner.

 

[DARKSIDE]

If Crosby could pick, he would pick Montreal with Johnson! It is widely known Montreal is their favorite teams, business issues aside.

As a second, he might choose New Jersey to play with his pal Zach Parise...He did live with the Parise Family for awhile and would also benefit from the close proximity to the New York Tri-State area media and Madison Avenue. (U.S. capital of advertizing).