GDT: #20: Islanders at FLYERS, Saturday, Nov. 16, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

[deadhead]

Those stats are not accurate....if takeaways, giveaways, shots, missed shots, etc...are not accurate, those are not either.

Would I take the numbers to the right of the decimal point seriously? No.
But the general magnitudes correspond to what we see on the ice.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A lot of complaints about the dump & chase style after the Ottawa game.

Well, that’s AV’s system, & I agree with it. Worst thing you can do is try to force plays with the puck in the neutral zone when there’s nothing there. Particularly because teams tend to be so well structured defensively now.

Mind you, AV isn’t against making plays into the offensive zone *if they are there*. He just doesn’t want forced plays, because that leads to turnovers & high danger chances the other way.

It’s a fools errand to try to make plays with the puck in transition against a well structured defense. The majority of the time the dump & chase is going to be the right play. Especially with the Flyers, who don’t exactly have a team full of Forsbergs & Datsyuks.

It’s not the system to blame when they don’t score. It’s simply execution.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

A lot of complaints about the dump & chase style after the Ottawa game.

Well, that’s AV’s system, & I agree with it. Worst thing you can do is try to force plays with the puck in the neutral zone when there’s nothing there. Particularly because teams tend to be so well structured defensively now.

Mind you, AV isn’t against making plays into the offensive zone *if they are there*. He just doesn’t want forced plays, because that leads to turnovers & high danger chances the other way.

It’s a fools errand to try to make plays with the puck in transition against a well structured defense. The majority of the time the dump & chase is going to be the right play. Especially with the Flyers, who don’t exactly have a team full of Forsbergs & Datsyuks.

It’s not the system to blame when they don’t score. It’s simply execution.

So even when a team specifically adjusts to stop the dump and chase you want the team to forge ahead with it?

I would like to see the system evolve where there are more opportunities to enter the zone with control. As of right now we seem to have reverted back to longer stretch passes to near stationary targets. Earlier in the season there seemed more focus on attacking through the neutral zone with speed as a unit so that there were more lanes to attack the zone with control before being forced to dump the puck in.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

+5 in winterpeg today, bought some jumbo shrimp and 2 monster ribeyes, today is gonna be a good day capped by a Flyers win.

I had four small cheeseburgers without bread and a salad. And about seven peeled pistachios, which were ****ing delicious.

 

[BigToe]

A lot of complaints about the dump & chase style after the Ottawa game.

Well, that’s AV’s system, & I agree with it. Worst thing you can do is try to force plays with the puck in the neutral zone when there’s nothing there. Particularly because teams tend to be so well structured defensively now.

Mind you, AV isn’t against making plays into the offensive zone *if they are there*. He just doesn’t want forced plays, because that leads to turnovers & high danger chances the other way.

It’s a fools errand to try to make plays with the puck in transition against a well structured defense. The majority of the time the dump & chase is going to be the right play. Especially with the Flyers, who don’t exactly have a team full of Forsbergs & Datsyuks.

It’s not the system to blame when they don’t score. It’s simply execution.

It would make sense if there was more thought behind the dump ins. It just seems like once you have the puck past the red line, throw it in and hope.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

It’s a chilly 58F here in FL, but we’re hanging in there.

"Florida Man Hangs Self in Bid to 'Chill' "

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I’ve been into trying some “exotic” meats lately.

Wild boar and elk are damn good.

Try reindeer. It is gamey as ****. Then try reindeer cheese. It is also gamey as ****.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Strength doesn't matter when he's actively avoiding hits. He's one of the softest defensemen I've ever seen on our team.
I don't expect him to hit everyone in sight, but don't play like a *****.

Great agenda. I mean post.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So even when a team specifically adjusts to stop the dump and chase you want the team to forge ahead with it?

I would like to see the system evolve where there are more opportunities to enter the zone with control. As of right now we seem to have reverted back to longer stretch passes to near stationary targets. Earlier in the season there seemed more focus on attacking through the neutral zone with speed as a unit so that there were more lanes to attack the zone with control before being forced to dump the puck in.

Vigneault wants his players to make the right reads & take what the D gives you. Obviously it’s still a work in progress—AV hasn’t been here 20 games yet. But you cannot attack through the neutral zone & try controlled entries against a D that is well set up, structured, & taking away the middle. It’s a recipe for disaster.

The Flyers outshot Ottawa 27-19. What great anti-dump & chase strategic adjustments did Ottawa really make? The Flyers just had too many execution problems. It wasn’t the systems.

 

[Nizzle]

My dog is going to watch this so anything other than total domination won’t be tolerated

 

[Striiker]

Good for Ghost to not get hit as often. I don't see Ghost as a soft player at all and I don't see him just giving the puck away so he doesn't take a hit. Sanheim is soft right now and avoids hits while losing the puck but hopefully with more time in he will fix that problem.

Yeah, Ghost isn't soft at all. That's a complete fabrication and stereotype simply because he's not big.

He's so similar to Giroux in so many ways, including when he's along the boards. He doesn't take hits because he's able to avoid them without giving up the puck and he wins board battles by smarts/quickness/stickwork instead of through size/strength... again, just like Giroux.

 

[BiggE]

does it scare you that we probably live fairly close to each other?

Nah, I don’t scare easy

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

@Hollywood Couturier are you absolutely sure you want to play these divisional opponents MORE during a season?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

@Hollywood Couturier are you absolutely sure you want to play these divisional opponents MORE during a season?

Yes.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Yes.

Ugh. Still love you, though.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

I'll be in Hershey watching the (shut out in two straight games) Bears lose, so I won't have the privilege of watching the Flyers do the same.

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, Ghost isn't soft at all. That's a complete fabrication and stereotype simply because he's not big.

He's so similar to Giroux in so many ways, including when he's along the boards. He doesn't take hits because he's able to avoid them without giving up the puck and he wins board battles by smarts/quickness/stickwork instead of through size/strength... again, just like Giroux.

Ghost doesn't win board battles because he generally avoids them, one reason you pair him with someone like Braun.
His hit rate is less than half that of any other defenseman, no, he's not nearly that elusive.
Provorov is great at anticipating the hit and getting the puck out then dodging the forechecker, and he still gets hit at twice the rate as Ghost.

Giroux also tends to play on the edge, one problem he has at center (and probably the reason they don't want to rush Frost) is he has to make plays on defense around the net in AV's system, and he's physically over matched at time, even though he's significantly stronger than Ghost. Which is a good reason to move him back to wing sooner than later, to reduce that kind of punishment.

 

[flyersfan187]

@Hollywood Couturier are you absolutely sure you want to play these divisional opponents MORE during a season?

Yesss. I don't even know some players anymore on rival teams which is no good because then how can I hate them??

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Vigneault wants his players to make the right reads & take what the D gives you. Obviously it’s still a work in progress—AV hasn’t been here 20 games yet. But you cannot attack through the neutral zone & try controlled entries against a D that is well set up, structured, & taking away the middle. It’s a recipe for disaster.

The Flyers outshot Ottawa 27-19. What great anti-dump & chase strategic adjustments did Ottawa really make? The Flyers just had too many execution problems. It wasn’t the systems.

They kept their defenceman deeper in the zone and had a forward of theirs track our 1F forward into the zone. That way when our number 1 forechecking forward arrived at the puck they were almost always out numbered 2-1 while their weak side defenceman was already deep enough in the zone to be an easy passing option along the wall.

Having backed their defenceman in we should have taken advantage of them cheating by carrying more pucks into the zone and stopping up high in the zone while the late forwards drove the net hard. The Sens were giving away space but the Flyers didnt seem to adjust into those open areas.

And beyond just that game I prefer that the team was less reliant on the dump and chase even if it exposed us to dangerous turnover. Outside of Coots line I don't think we have the horses to successfully run a system based around the dump and chase. We don't have enough effective forecheckers on the other lines.

 

[BiggE]

I'll be in Hershey watching the (shut out in two straight games) Bears lose, so I won't have the privilege of watching the Flyers do the same.

At least the chocolate is good

 

[TheKingPin]

Yea I don’t have a prob with Sanheim at all. He’s a great player and really young still.

Let’s get a big win!!

 

[BigToe]

Ghost doesn't win board battles because he generally avoids them, one reason you pair him with someone like Braun.
His hit rate is less than half that of any other defenseman, no, he's not nearly that elusive.
Provorov is great at anticipating the hit and getting the puck out then dodging the forechecker, and he still gets hit at twice the rate as Ghost.

Giroux also tends to play on the edge, one problem he has at center (and probably the reason they don't want to rush Frost) is he has to make plays on defense around the net in AV's system, and he's physically over matched at time, even though he's significantly stronger than Ghost. Which is a good reason to move him back to wing sooner than later, to reduce that kind of punishment.

Is there an actual stat for that?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Ghost doesn't win board battles because he generally avoids them, one reason you pair him with someone like Braun.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Yesss. I don't even know some players anymore on rival teams which is no good because then how can I hate them??

I agree that spite deficiency is a HUGE problem in America, but all you need to do is see the sweater and it should be easy to hate them.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

At least the chocolate is good

We were season ticket holders in the late 2000s when they were winning cups left and right and still go to several games a year. Always fun to see live hockey even if they're not the minor league powerhouse they used to be