Post-Game Talk: #2: FLYERS 4 vs. Devils 0, Wednesday, Oct. 9, 2019, 7:30 pm ET

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,829
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Nova Scotia
Yep. Hextall was afraid of his own shadow it seemed. I'm glad Hextall was hired and I'm glad he was fired. He had this odd Dr Jerkyl and Mr Hyde complex. Guy has a good vision but a complete lack of moxie to execute on it.
I was a Hextall supporter, until he once again sat on his hands the summer before his firing not filling any of the holes we had-RHD, G, #2C and not firing the coaching staff. Had he done those things, he would still be here.
 

ybnvs

Registered User
Mar 20, 2014
2,109
3,654
i give hextall alot of credit of how he built this team but if he just fired hakstol, everything would have been different.

It has been proven and discussed (ad nauseum) Hextall was toxic for our organization. "...if he just fired Hakstol..." is not the main issue that would have solved all of the Flyers' troubles the past few years. While he accomplished many great things to help better the organization's future, his tyrannical approach to GMing was detrimental to the organization as a whole. We don't need players disconnected from management and coaching. That's not Flyers hockey.

I am thankful for Hextall's work and also thankful for his termination.
 

Starat327

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I will respond then I am off to bed.

I never said we should settle for good enough....but at 98%.... You can't ask for much better. And no, they won't sustain it.

But here is what I know. We have a new coach that has been looking for a lineup that HE thinks can win now. He searched all preseason and voiced his displeasure. And after all the *****ing and complaining about people playing together for the 1st time, we have 2 wins in 2 tries. You can bet he is happy with certain things....but also not with others. Not to point fingers, but Bunny getting under 8 minutes, you can see that might be one thing.

Pertain people only want to believe that their exact lineup is the best one because it is the best one on paper. I on the other hand, feel that there is more to the game. Sometimes it's about just messing well, reading the game the same, FILLING A ROLE. And I know some hate that, but sometimes, it's needed. Zac Hyman works well with Matthews because he us good at going to get the puck then feeding it to Matthews. Zac obviously isn't the most talented guy, but with Matthews and Nylander, having that type of guy is a FIT.

I have said that I personally think G-Couts-TK should be a line because not only has it proven to be good, but I think Lindblom-Hayes-Jake can be a very good cycle type line to wear down teams. But I also understand AV wanting to keep together a line that has been crazy dominant and tell our 3 highest paid forwards to figure out a way to produce together.

And also like I said before, JVR is a top scorer for us yet people are ok with Lindblom playing above him due to fit. But on paper, it should be JVR.

In the end, AV was searching for something that worked and I won't be surprised if he runs with it until it doesn't work. I just love that we are actually in a position where we can mix up some guys and still have good lines. But right now, our 3rd line IS weak. And would have no issue adding Farabee to it, dropping Twar down and Bunny out. And at some point, doing the same with Frost/Laughton and bump Twar out.

Coaches like non event depth guys for the most part. Some will say they have not done anything to help us win, coaches will say they played teams even and didn't cost us anything against. They all mostly prefer the 0-0 draw vs a 2-2 one from their depth guys.

Oh...and you are wrong about not playing well either game. Both games we were flat in the 1st periods but both games were were very good/dominant in the 2nd and 3rd.

Anyway, nite, nite. Happy for the win and 2-0 start. The sky has not fallen with our suboptimal lineup and I too look forward to when our top 3 prospects and possibly Patrick is added to the mix. Our team to end the year should look quite different than the start. Hell....we can add a full line to forwards bumping guys out/down. But at least when that happens, these kids will also have that experience for if/when we need them thru the year.

Oh...and Hagg can go anytime.

So now in a less inebriated state and on a quick break from an 8 hour meeting - I don't disagree with a whole lot of this. I think ultimately we're on the same page. And im not really looking to rehash this topic, as i think we've all kind of exhausted our arguments here. But i do feel like I owe you some sort of response since you took the time to write all this out.

I disagree in principle that you shouldnt be constantly looking for a way to improve. Being stagnant in a business like this, or any, really, is a death wish. If we comfortable settling for 98%, we wouldnt be trying any other line combos out, because we know that G-Couturier is probably that 98% optimal (and to be clear, i'm using 98 as a placeholder for the sake of conversation, Im not actually saying it is 98% optimal). Mixing up things like line chemistry is what you do when you starting reaching those upper echelons where simply adding pieces is no longer viable. As i said, its exponentially harder to go from the 98 to the 99 than it is the 70 to 75, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt be making that effort, either.

I'm still not sure our strong start is 100% us being dominant, but it isnt quite worth the debate, since theres no way to prove it out. I think there are certain players who look fantastic, but I think a lot of us looking dominant has to do with playing opponents who werent all that great, either. Again, I wont attempt to quantify to what degree, but i think that is playing a part. The hawks looked pretty sloppy, and the devils werent much better, in my opinion. Obviously Couturier manhandled Toews, and I havent bothered to look at the advanced stats for last nights game yet (all day meetings suck, and even more so when you're feeling less than 98% yourself, lol) to see where we fell in those terms. 2 games is hardly a sample size im willing to die on, and I'll be interested to see how we progress through the season.

I wholeheartedly agree that fit plays a part, and your Hyman example is a great one. As is the case with the revolving door of players who play with Crosby - some work and some dont, its a matter of style of play. I do think that we could optimize the roster a bit better, while also keeping fit in mind, though. I think what tends to get lost in this topic is that achieving results doesnt necessarily justify the path you took to get there. The penguins won a cup with Bylsma as a coach, and I feel confident in saying he isnt a particularly good coach.

Anyways - we are winning and doing it in a way that's entertaining, to boot. Hockey is fun to watch again, and I like to think we can all agree that that is at least a damn good start. :cheers:
 

Rebels57

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I've watched 2 Devils games in full, Gusev and Subban is a dynamite way to burn 13 mill on the cap :)

Gusev is a trainwreck defensively. He definitely has nice puck skills but they are going to have to be strategic in how they deploy him and who he plays with.

Subban looks like he had reconstructive knee surgery over the summer. No spring in his step at all.
 
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hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
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Not sure how the Flyers dominated & shut out NJ with all of those skilled possession players they supposedly have hahaha
AV is a great coach and the assitants are awesome too. Voracek looks f***in lost and is killing the Hayes line but other then that solid first two games. Flyers new style will outplay most teams.
 
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Jettany

Registered User
Feb 21, 2018
2,630
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I was a Hextall supporter, until he once again sat on his hands the summer before his firing not filling any of the holes we had-RHD, G, #2C and not firing the coaching staff. Had he done those things, he would still be here.
Still love the player and the GM!
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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AV is a great coach and the assitants are awesome too. Voracek looks ****in lost and is killing the Hayes line but other then that solid first two games. Flyers new style will outplay most teams.
Agreed on all counts. Voracek has been dreck, but the overall team is playing an awesome style so far.

They ran that fancy NJ team into the ground. Can't believe all of those skill guys on NJ weren't able to play keep-away against a bigger, stronger, more defensively responsible team. News flash: much of the game is played on the boards.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,829
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Nova Scotia
So now in a less inebriated state and on a quick break from an 8 hour meeting - I don't disagree with a whole lot of this. I think ultimately we're on the same page. And im not really looking to rehash this topic, as i think we've all kind of exhausted our arguments here. But i do feel like I owe you some sort of response since you took the time to write all this out.

I disagree in principle that you shouldnt be constantly looking for a way to improve. Being stagnant in a business like this, or any, really, is a death wish. If we comfortable settling for 98%, we wouldnt be trying any other line combos out, because we know that G-Couturier is probably that 98% optimal (and to be clear, i'm using 98 as a placeholder for the sake of conversation, Im not actually saying it is 98% optimal). Mixing up things like line chemistry is what you do when you starting reaching those upper echelons where simply adding pieces is no longer viable. As i said, its exponentially harder to go from the 98 to the 99 than it is the 70 to 75, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt be making that effort, either.

I'm still not sure our strong start is 100% us being dominant, but it isnt quite worth the debate, since theres no way to prove it out. I think there are certain players who look fantastic, but I think a lot of us looking dominant has to do with playing opponents who werent all that great, either. Again, I wont attempt to quantify to what degree, but i think that is playing a part. The hawks looked pretty sloppy, and the devils werent much better, in my opinion. Obviously Couturier manhandled Toews, and I havent bothered to look at the advanced stats for last nights game yet (all day meetings suck, and even more so when you're feeling less than 98% yourself, lol) to see where we fell in those terms. 2 games is hardly a sample size im willing to die on, and I'll be interested to see how we progress through the season.

I wholeheartedly agree that fit plays a part, and your Hyman example is a great one. As is the case with the revolving door of players who play with Crosby - some work and some dont, its a matter of style of play. I do think that we could optimize the roster a bit better, while also keeping fit in mind, though. I think what tends to get lost in this topic is that achieving results doesnt necessarily justify the path you took to get there. The penguins won a cup with Bylsma as a coach, and I feel confident in saying he isnt a particularly good coach.

Anyways - we are winning and doing it in a way that's entertaining, to boot. Hockey is fun to watch again, and I like to think we can all agree that that is at least a damn good start. :cheers:
My past post was only that long because I was on the shitter with gut rot from the pizza I ate...lol. So I was killing time.

Someone who is into the fancy stats could likely quantify how we were in both games in the 2nd and 3rd periods to be "dominant". I know someone posted the chances in game 1 for those periods and it was quite tilted. Last night, it seemed like we took over in the 2nd but had no luck then finished our chances in the 3rd. But both games I didn't like our 1st periods.

as for the rest...we are good. And yes, happy as hell we got off to a 2-0 start because really, these are teams we are better than so should be winning. Hopefully it continues.
 

Starat327

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My past post was only that long because I was on the ****ter with gut rot from the pizza I ate...lol. So I was killing time.

Someone who is into the fancy stats could likely quantify how we were in both games in the 2nd and 3rd periods to be "dominant". I know someone posted the chances in game 1 for those periods and it was quite tilted. Last night, it seemed like we took over in the 2nd but had no luck then finished our chances in the 3rd. But both games I didn't like our 1st periods.

as for the rest...we are good. And yes, happy as hell we got off to a 2-0 start because really, these are teams we are better than so should be winning. Hopefully it continues.

Agreed. We came out flat in first period, and looked much better later in the game. The 5 on 3 kill was phenomenal. Ultimately, its just a matter of how dominant are you when the other teams arent really great? This is obviously going to be extremely hyperbolic for emphasis, but I feel confident I could dominant an under 8 soccer team. Im not as confident that i could dominate a high school soccer team. It's still very early in the season, so teams are shaking off rust, etc. Maybe the devils figure things out later on, but they didnt look quite up to snuff last night.

On a somewhat related note - when is the last time we actually started the season fairly well, and didnt come stumbling out of the gates?
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,829
86,179
Nova Scotia
Agreed. We came out flat in first period, and looked much better later in the game. The 5 on 3 kill was phenomenal. Ultimately, its just a matter of how dominant are you when the other teams arent really great? This is obviously going to be extremely hyperbolic for emphasis, but I feel confident I could dominant an under 8 soccer team. Im not as confident that i could dominate a high school soccer team. It's still very early in the season, so teams are shaking off rust, etc. Maybe the devils figure things out later on, but they didnt look quite up to snuff last night.

On a somewhat related note - when is the last time we actually started the season fairly well, and didnt come stumbling out of the gates?
last line...it seems like forever. Now we need a good road trip...winning 2/3 would be nice.
 
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FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
12,459
28,460
Winnipeg
Agreed. We came out flat in first period, and looked much better later in the game. The 5 on 3 kill was phenomenal. Ultimately, its just a matter of how dominant are you when the other teams arent really great? This is obviously going to be extremely hyperbolic for emphasis, but I feel confident I could dominant an under 8 soccer team. Im not as confident that i could dominate a high school soccer team. It's still very early in the season, so teams are shaking off rust, etc. Maybe the devils figure things out later on, but they didnt look quite up to snuff last night.

On a somewhat related note - when is the last time we actually started the season fairly well, and didnt come stumbling out of the gates?

A while man. Even if it’s two games and there are definite immediate improvements that could be made, it is nice.

I’m going back on to day shifts starting Monday for a while so these turds need to keep it going. I also have tickets to when they come to Winnipeg on Dec 15. It’s been a while since I’ve been able to thoroughly cheer for a team that has a chance to do some real damage hopefully.

Figure out and change the stuff that needs to be, and keep it rolling.
 
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marcsson68

Registered User
Jan 23, 2018
447
585
When Hakstol was still there, I always wrote that apart from coaching issues it all starts with goaltending, especially when it came to our brutal PK.

Let‘s agree upon one thing: We came out slow against the Debbies (a common thing over the last couple of years). They didn‘t make use of it though. And our 3 vs 5 would have resulted in being a game changer with Elliott, Mrazek or any other netminder of the past couple of seasons between the pipes.

Of course it is not that simple. It‘s obviously not just Hart. It‘s also a different coaching approach, good D pairings, TK starting the season like a rocket and lowly opposition so far.
 

Qyburn

Registered User
Apr 2, 2012
5,425
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Allentown
I was a Hextall supporter, until he once again sat on his hands the summer before his firing not filling any of the holes we had-RHD, G, #2C and not firing the coaching staff. Had he done those things, he would still be here.
It's a really interesting situation when you consider that Giroux had only relatively recently been tried at wing, and even though it worked like a charm right out of the gate (and even though there are rumors it was as much Hexy's idea as anyone's), you have to think "LW Claude Giroux" was hardly something that was set in stone during this time of flux. When you throw in the Patrick projection it becomes an even tougher situation to describe with any definitiveness. And needless to say that's not taking into account the current NP situation, whatever that is. Although it may come out that it possibly should be taken into account.
 

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