GDT: 2/16/13 "Static Shock" - Lightning VS Panthers

[flapanthersfan]

i think my response in the context of the "blame the coach again" discussion was justified and perfectly fine.

you bring up deboer in every friggen thread. enough already. he's gone.

i don't really see this team or dineen in the same category as any of those. i don't think we've even really established an identity, either. we were certainly never hard to play against under dineen.

for the record, i never compared dineen or our team to those coaches. just that the systems they run are comparable/identical and have had success in the NHL.

i'm sure dineen is trying. unfortunately for him, that's not a valid defense of his job. other coaches are trying and are fielding teams that play with more structure and compete harder.

he's the same coach he was last year who took a very average roster to the playoffs and within one game (goal) of the second round.

to sit here and question his coaching ability after a bad 15 game stretch and try to put the blame solely on his shoulders is silly.

and i'm with you regarding accountability. however, this is not a team of kovalevs and parroses; the team has some decent (at worst) 2 way forwards who right now are not doing what they need to do. maybe what you are talking about is a culture problem? i think it's possible, and that would be as much on tallon as dineen (not to mention jovo... but that goes back to tallon).

trust me - i'm not absolving tallon of his mistakes. he's made plenty.

but this roster is not filled with "good two way forwards" anymore and thats my point.

huberdeau was hilariously terrible defensively. he's gotten better lately. that's a product of coaching. but he's still not good by any means.

mueller is not a two way forward

fleishmann is not a two-way forward

versteeg is not a two way forward

they are all strictly offensive. that's fine, if you have your bottom-2 lines filled with responsible players or players who you can pair the liabilities with. but we don't

kovalev is TERRIBLE defensively. Parros is just as bad. that's obvious

Skille is not very good either (and after watching the replay, is who was responsible for the game tying goal today).

Kopecky, Goc, Weiss and Shore (a rookie) are the only guys i see as legitimate two-way players. and Weiss isn't playing like it for whatever reason.

that leaves 3 out of our 12 forwards who dineen can rely on. that's not enough. not close to being enough.

John Madden is gone. Sturm is gone. Samuelsson's gone. Bergenheim's gone. all very good defensive forwards.

this isn't the same personnel and it's showing.

the players we do have need to start paying attention to detail or we need to get rid of them. especially kovalev and parros. i can live with the others blowing some coverages if at least they're trying and/or producing offensively.

if you want to talk coaching mistakes; i'll give you this. what the **** is Alex Kovalev doing playing the point with 10 minutes left and a 2-goal lead?

what the hell are Huberdeau and Skille doing on the ice with 10 seconds left of a one-goal game?

 

[ProjectPanthers]

The fact that this team paid little-to-no attention to STEVEN STAMKOS on that 4-on-3 powerplay is ridiculous.

I just went back and watched all the highlights. Go check their goals. Nobody is covering their man in our zone. THE ENTIRE TEAM collapses to the front of the net, but that strategy is useless if nobody takes a man when they get there. On the 3rd goal Skille didn't even try to lift the man's stick or anything.

I agree with what others said, we are soft. Our defense is slow and our team is soft. Players have way too much time to play with the puck and never are in fear of getting rocked when entering our zone except for maybe Guds. If we're not going to be big, we have to be fast. But we're neither.

This is a combination of so many things hitting the fan at the same time. Our offense is terribly inconsistent, the "back-checking" is pathetic, our defense doesn't go hard in the corners, it doesn't cover the man in front, and our goaltenders cannot stop anything.

The fact that a man is WIDE OPEN (not a Panther within 10 feet) in the slot with 10 seconds left and we are protecting a 1-goal lead should say everything to you right there.

 

[adam graves]

Jose Theodore and Scott Clemmensen were the backbone of Florida's 12th-ranked defense last season, they possess bloated goals-against-averages while allowing a league-high 3.62 goals-per-game, or nearly a full goal (2.63) more than last year.

todays sun sentinel.

We have the leagues worst goaltending. We're giving up a goal more PER GAME then Last yr. We've scored 5 goals twice this week, AND LOST. This is not rocket science.


We're a phone call away from improving the above.

 

[harv33173]

this is definately more of a team problem than a goal tender problem. too many players are getting free in PRIME goal scoring areas!!!! nobody could stop the majority of those goals. we are not good defensively and our forwards for the most part are terrible defensively! this is a team effort!!! the team is letting the goatenders down. i am resigned to possible a lottery pick because with some of the recent acquisitions and the players out we are far from the same team we were!!! goaltending is definatelly not great, but it's not the major problem!!!

 

[adam graves]

this is definately more of a team problem than a goal tender problem. too many players are getting free in PRIME goal scoring areas!!!! nobody could stop the majority of those goals. we are not good defensively and our forwards for the most part are terrible defensively! this is a team effort!!! the team is letting the goatenders down. i am resigned to possible a lottery pick because with some of the recent acquisitions and the players out we are far from the same team we were!!! goaltending is definatelly not great, but it's not the major problem!!!

Agreed, Harv, its just the problem that one phone call improves.

 

[Benched]

Jose Theodore and Scott Clemmensen were the backbone of Florida's 12th-ranked defense last season, they possess bloated goals-against-averages while allowing a league-high 3.62 goals-per-game, or nearly a full goal (2.63) more than last year.

todays sun sentinel.

We have the leagues worst goaltending. We're giving up a goal more PER GAME then Last yr. We've scored 5 goals twice this week, AND LOST. This is not rocket science.


We're a phone call away from improving the above.

I really want to know what the defense is for not doing it. And doing it now.

 

[Slick Cat]

This is not a goaltending problem, goals against averages and save percentages are very misleading. Just take yesterday's game. Three goals were WIDE OPEN tampa players in front of the net, cashing in on a quick pass or rebound. In some cases, several panthers are watching. Skille did this on two of the goals himself, waaay to late to cover and letting his guy free. One goal was on a third rebound, how may of these types of shots do we expect Theo to stop. While Clemmer has not been great, other than a couple of goals all season, Theo has been excellent thus far, and every goalie gives up a soft one once in a while. Our defense is terrible. Garrison to Kuba is about a big a downgrade as you can have. Not sure what Tallon was thinking. Campbell is a shell of himself defensively, can't even catch up to other players and soft on the puck, looks lazy. Only a small handful of players look alive out there. If the phone call reference is Luongo, he IS NOT the answer. He would bring more problems than solutions and forget about spending on quality players with his contract tying things up. If anything, get rid of Clemm and bring up Markstrom.

 

[RainingRats]

This is not a goaltending problem, goals against averages and save percentages are very misleading. Just take yesterday's game. Three goals were WIDE OPEN tampa players in front of the net, cashing in on a quick pass or rebound. In some cases, several panthers are watching. Skille did this on two of the goals himself, waaay to late to cover and letting his guy free. One goal was on a third rebound, how may of these types of shots do we expect Theo to stop. While Clemmer has not been great, other than a couple of goals all season, Theo has been excellent thus far, and every goalie gives up a soft one once in a while. Our defense is terrible. Garrison to Kuba is about a big a downgrade as you can have. Not sure what Tallon was thinking. Campbell is a shell of himself defensively, can't even catch up to other players and soft on the puck, looks lazy. Only a small handful of players look alive out there. If the phone call reference is Luongo, he IS NOT the answer. He would bring more problems than solutions and forget about spending on quality players with his contract tying things up. If anything, get rid of Clemm and bring up Markstrom.

Agree that this is a team problem. From the top down. A lot of this is on Dineen for not getting his players to commit to basic defensive structure. They leave people open all the time. Theo and Clemmer have no chance on a lot of goals. Until the coaching staff and the players figure out a way to play team defense we're going to be losing a lot of games.

 

[Panteras]

I agree, our defense is just crap, and we're simply not "hard" to play against. Either we get shutout, or score a spree of goals, but we equally get a spree of goals against...it's lose lose with this team.

Our rookie line's been the best line, that's unacceptable even though it's exciting and great to see..

 

[nhlfan9191]

Agreed, Harv, its just the problem that one phone call improves.

Are you referring to Markstrom or Luongo with that last sentence?

 

[RainingRats]

I couldn't watch the game yesterday so I could only see the highlights. Skille is awful defensively. He looks like he wants to turn up ice as soon as possible instead of play D. Why is he on the ice at the end of regulation? He's not good defensively.

The first Tampa goal nobody covers the goal scorer in front of our net. I don't understand how this happens.

The OT goal was atrocious. Both Campbell and Strachan are behind the net.

These are coaching mistakes and poor decision making that are easily corrected. What is going on?

 

[Erick*]

It's a combination of bad defense and inconsistent goaltending. If I had to pick, I do agree that the defense is more of a problem, but we also don't have the worst defense in the league. I've watched other teams play worse and not allow 6 goals every other game.

The 2nd goal the Lightning scored yesterday has to be stopped. A couple of the goals were a product of bad defense that you probably shouldn't blame a goalie for, but a goalie can still make a big stop.

The Panthers weren't a very good defensive team last year. The goalies just played better. Granted, I'd say we're worse defensively this year, but the goalies were left out to dry plenty of times last year. They just played better.

 

[adam graves]

It's a combination of bad defense and inconsistent goaltending. If I had to pick, I do agree that the defense is more of a problem, but we also don't have the worst defense in the league. I've watched other teams play worse and not allow 6 goals every other game.

The 2nd goal the Lightning scored yesterday has to be stopped. A couple of the goals were a product of bad defense that you probably shouldn't blame a goalie for, but a goalie can still make a big stop.

The Panthers weren't a very good defensive team last year. The goalies just played better. Granted, I'd say we're worse defensively this year, but the goalies were left out to dry plenty of times last year. They just played better.

We agree; and am simply saying i don't have a quick fix for the poor talent level of the D i do have a quick way to raise the talent level between the pipes.

 

[zeroG]

you bring up deboer in every friggen thread. enough already. he's gone.

uh... you do not make the rules, pal. someone else brought him up, i commented. don't like it? lump it.

for the record, i never compared dineen or our team to those coaches. just that the systems they run are comparable/identical and have had success in the NHL.

what's our system, our identity?

le's the same coach he was last year who took a very average roster to the playoffs and within one game (goal) of the second round.

to sit here and question his coaching ability after a bad 15 game stretch and try to put the blame solely on his shoulders is silly.

he didn't do much of anything last year either. last year's team was far from a well-oiled machine. once the top line cooled off, we struggled to be an average team, barely scraping into the playoffs. many of the games were downright ugly. we lacked structure and compete in many games last year and i said as much then.

and please stop putting words into my mouth. i've never said anything remotely close to "this is all dineen's fault".

trust me - i'm not absolving tallon of his mistakes. he's made plenty.

but this roster is not filled with "good two way forwards" anymore and thats my point.

again, quit putting words in mouth. did i ever say this team is filled with good 2 way forwards?

huberdeau was hilariously terrible defensively. he's gotten better lately. that's a product of coaching. but he's still not good by any means.

mueller is not a two way forward

fleishmann is not a two-way forward

versteeg is not a two way forward

they are all strictly offensive. that's fine, if you have your bottom-2 lines filled with responsible players or players who you can pair the liabilities with. but we don't

kovalev is TERRIBLE defensively. Parros is just as bad. that's obvious

Skille is not very good either (and after watching the replay, is who was responsible for the game tying goal today).

Kopecky, Goc, Weiss and Shore (a rookie) are the only guys i see as legitimate two-way players. and Weiss isn't playing like it for whatever reason.

that leaves 3 out of our 12 forwards who dineen can rely on. that's not enough. not close to being enough.

John Madden is gone. Sturm is gone. Samuelsson's gone. Bergenheim's gone. all very good defensive forwards.

this isn't the same personnel and it's showing.

the players we do have need to start paying attention to detail or we need to get rid of them. especially kovalev and parros. i can live with the others blowing some coverages if at least they're trying and/or producing offensively.

if you want to talk coaching mistakes; i'll give you this. what the **** is Alex Kovalev doing playing the point with 10 minutes left and a 2-goal lead?

what the hell are Huberdeau and Skille doing on the ice with 10 seconds left of a one-goal game?

so you're questioning dineen, eh?

and this isn't kovalev or parros' fault. please.

 

[Laus723]

You've implied it multiple times and want to point to an improved roster as a reason. Never mind that New York and Minnesota have struggled with new players an other teams have done the same throughout league history. That's copping out. Dineen can definitely improve, but give credit where it's due.

 

[Benched]

It's a combination of bad defense and inconsistent goaltending. If I had to pick, I do agree that the defense is more of a problem, but we also don't have the worst defense in the league. I've watched other teams play worse and not allow 6 goals every other game.

The 2nd goal the Lightning scored yesterday has to be stopped. A couple of the goals were a product of bad defense that you probably shouldn't blame a goalie for, but a goalie can still make a big stop.

The Panthers weren't a very good defensive team last year. The goalies just played better. Granted, I'd say we're worse defensively this year, but the goalies were left out to dry plenty of times last year. They just played better.

We also don't have an NHL ready top prospect defender in the minors that instantly makes our team better. So of course defense is more of a problem, especially in the long run.

 

[Benched]

This is not a goaltending problem, goals against averages and save percentages are very misleading. Just take yesterday's game. Three goals were WIDE OPEN tampa players in front of the net, cashing in on a quick pass or rebound. In some cases, several panthers are watching. Skille did this on two of the goals himself, waaay to late to cover and letting his guy free. One goal was on a third rebound, how may of these types of shots do we expect Theo to stop. While Clemmer has not been great, other than a couple of goals all season, Theo has been excellent thus far, and every goalie gives up a soft one once in a while. Our defense is terrible. Garrison to Kuba is about a big a downgrade as you can have. Not sure what Tallon was thinking. Campbell is a shell of himself defensively, can't even catch up to other players and soft on the puck, looks lazy. Only a small handful of players look alive out there. If the phone call reference is Luongo, he IS NOT the answer. He would bring more problems than solutions and forget about spending on quality players with his contract tying things up. If anything, get rid of Clemm and bring up Markstrom.

I think the phone call reference was Markstrom. And while I agree that defense is a problem (and probably the biggest long term problem on the team considering we have no NHL ready defenders in the minors, like I said previously), goaltending is definitely a problem, too, especially on the subject of a second goalie. I agree that Theo hasn't been terrible but Clemmensen is an absolute disaster. There is absolutely no excuse in the world to not call up a top prospect with NHL experience (and pretty good experience) to this team, especially considering where it sits right now.

 

[harv33173]

imo, BOY WHAT A MISTAKE with ellerby. he really seems to be settling in with the kings!!!!!

 

[Ghoste]

imo, BOY WHAT A MISTAKE with ellerby. he really seems to be settling in with the kings!!!!!

I would've liked to have held on to him but I'm certainly not losing any sleep now that he's gone. So far, he's a serviceable defenseman and until he just explodes into another level, I don't see it as a super huge mistake that Tallon shipped him out.

-ghoste