1984 Oilers Reunion

[Dorian2]

Pocklington wasn't/isn't hated just because of the Gretzky trade. It was his other business deals around Edmonton that cost people jobs and his wanting to sell the team to Houston IIRC. Good on the fans for the standing O.

Yeah. Wasn't it Gainers that he owned.

That meat plant had a few issues for sure.

 

[Replacement*]

Replacement, did you ever think that they didn't want to tell some stories because their kids might be in attendance and didnt want to tell some stories that their kids would hear or the words that might have been repeated were not appropriate for their kids to hear or others kids in the audience?

Probably not. But we get to read your posts of whine after whine after whine.

Well, given that it was describes as a night of old stories, actually what it stated in the lead ups to that event, one would maybe expect to hear some stories..But then again I'm strange that way expecting what was actually stated the thing was going to be about.

Instead its 15mins of Pocklingtons crocodile tears drama. See if you get the reference. Or irony.

tbh I severely doubt I would've been caught up in any emotion seeing that guy crying.

ps nobody told you to read my posts..

 

[Replacement*]

.

As I became a Kings fan after the Trade, I hold no ill-will towards Peter Puck (nor towards Bruce McNall who nearly killed off my Kings with his criminal enterprise). My thinking is this: if Wayne Gretzky, who sat there and heard all the awful things Peter Puck said about him and his family to Bruce McNall and in the media, can forgive him then Oilers fans should be able to as well. I am not just talking about Friday night where Wayne can put on a smile and pretend to be happy and chummy with Peter, but Wayne also wrote the forward to Peter's book entitled I'd Trade Him Again.



In my opinion, Peter Pocklington is not Frankenstein, who deserves the villagers chasing him with torches and pitchforks anymore. The things that happened 26 or 36 years ago are history. I understand how Oilers fans may have felt about him on August 9, 1988. But how does that translate to today? Even if Wayne had played his entire career in Edmonton, he would have been retired for 15 years now. There would be nothing linking his playing days to the current Oilers team. The struggles and poor results of the last few years have nothing to do with what happened in 1988. You want to hate someone? Hate Darryl Katz and the management of the Oilers over the last decade, they are the ones responsible. But remember this, as a fan of a team who has won two Cups in three years after several awful years of play, I can tell you that all it can take is a couple smart moves and your team can turn around.

What a convoluted Analysis by someone that wasn't even around for any of it. Where did you get these details from Wikipedia?

First of all Wayne could probably manage to forgive Pocklington because its the same guy who paid him millions to play pro hockey and then traded him to someone that would pay him even more. Yeah, so not really the same thing as anybody else having misgivings with puck either.

As for tar and pitchforks perhaps you don't know how Pocklington did end up leaving town. Yeah things got very unpleasant and heated.

Lets make a distinction between high priced help that were among the few not to get shafted by Puck and actually got their cheques and the hundreds of people Puck scammed here and that he still owes money to. The players were OK with Puck as long as the cheques didn't bounce. They're the ONLY employees anywhere that were OK with Puck. Not to mention all the businesses in Edmonton Puck still owes $ to. With this default paper trail continuing state side as well. Puck is not a very honorable person. Not worthy of respect imo.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

What a convoluted Analysis by someone that wasn't even around for any of it. Where did you get these details from Wikipedia?

First of all Wayne could probably manage to forgive Pocklington because its the same guy who paid him millions to play pro hockey and then traded him to someone that would pay him even more. Yeah, so not really the same thing as anybody else having misgivings with puck either.

As for tar and pitchforks perhaps you don't know how Pocklington did end up leaving town. Yeah things got very unpleasant and heated.

Lets make a distinction between high priced help that were among the few not to get shafted by Puck and actually got their cheques and the hundreds of people Puck scammed here and that he still owes money to. The players were OK with Puck as long as the cheques didn't bounce. They're the ONLY employees anywhere that were OK with Puck. Not to mention all the businesses in Edmonton Puck still owes $ to. With this default paper trail continuing state side as well. Puck is not a very honorable person. Not worthy of respect imo.

I wasn't around for any of it?!? I sure was. Just because I lived in Saskatoon, doesn't mean I was oblivious to the world around. From Age 5 on, I was obsessed with reading newspapers, watching news and watching Sportsdesk. Some of the details come from books relating to the Trade, between Stephen Brunt's book, Wayne Gretzky's three biographies, Peter Puck's biography and Bruce McNall's biography I have a fairly good idea of the events surrounding how he treated people. Maybe you are unwilling to forgive him and that's fine. But pick any former owner of a NHL team and you will find the same issues. The whole reason they were selling the team is that the money was running low, whether from the hockey team or another front.

You obviously have never heard what Wayne had felt about Peter Puck. I believe in his autobiography he mentions his dislike of Pocklington and in the Stephen Brunt book he mentions how he felt when Pocklington ran him down to Bruce McNall via teleconference before the trade happened. Also, the attacks Pocklington made on Janet following the trade. He even verbally ran down Walter Gretzky to Bruce McNall. Quite honestly, you run down my wife and father publicly I will never give you the time of day again.

I guess the point here is you hate the man Pocklington, whereas most people hate(d) the Oilers owner Pocklington. Did he ruin the Oilers franchise? Hardly, yes the dynasty was broken up but really, I doubt there would have been more than perhaps one more Cup after the 1990 Cup. Minus Mark Messier, the Kings had the nucleus of the Oilers dynasty with a couple other great pieces like Luc Robitaille, Dave Taylor and Larry Robinson and they didn't win a Cup. The other pieces went to New York with Mark Messier and they won the 1994 Cup. So regardless of what happened, he didn't ruin the franchise.

Now look at the vitrol you are spewing towards Pocklington. Do you hate Bruce McNall? I would say Pocklington's misdeeds are far less than that of McNall's. Bruce spent 70 months in solitary confinement in a maximum security US Federal Prison in Michigan for his fraudulent activities. He is not hated by the Kings faithful nor anyone else but he essentially stole well over $200,000,000. What about Craig MacTavish? He spent time in jail for killing someone in a car accident. Do you hate him? I could go on. Your beef with Peter Puck is either personal or you still hate him for trading Gretzky. Either way, there were 16,000 people at Rexall who were willing to respect the man.

By the way don't question my knowledge of hockey history. I know more trivial things about hockey dating back to the days of the WCHL and the Edmonton Eskimos (yes the hockey team) than most people would ever care to know. I have many times considered joining the SIHR.

But in the end, we get it you don't like Peter Puck and it is your crusade to ensure everyone else agrees with you. Well I am here to tell you I don't agree with you and frankly couldn't care less what you think about me. The man is a part of your franchise's history and whether you like it or not he had a hand in the success of your team. At least you still have a team to cheer for, there are many fans in Quebec and Hartford who would love to have a polarizing owner in their past that is being honoured by their current team. I am a Montreal Expos fan, so I know too well what it is like to see your team taken and moved. Whether you would like to admit it or not had Wild Bill (and you are forgetting the brief Nelson Skalbania ownership in 1976/77) hung on to the team there would be no Oilers. I doubt there would have even been NHL hockey in Edmonton at all.

But anyway, I had a great time at the reunion and glad it happened. I will leave this board and return to the Kings board, where there doesn't appear to be a bridge built.

 

[I am the Liquor]

So you were five and lived in Saskatoon.

But you read books and know what's what.

If you knew anything at all about what happened you would know that most, if not all the books and tv specials are complete and utter fabrications.

Kings Ransom is a joke. That isnt what happened at all. It takes about five seconds to deduce Pocklington's cya story about not being able to sign Wayne to a new deal as to the reason for the "trade" er "sale is complete and utter nonsense.

If that were truly the case then we would have received a fair return in assets, not a bunch of crap and 15 million dollars.

*hint- it was about the money.

Had nothing to do with a hockey deal, a new contract or anything else.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

So you were five and lived in Saskatoon.

But you read books and know what's what.

If you knew anything at all about what happened you would know that most, if not all the books and tv specials are complete and utter fabrications.

Kings Ransom is a joke. That isnt what happened at all. It takes about five seconds to deduce Pocklington's cya story about not being able to sign Wayne to a new deal as to the reason for the "trade" er "sale is complete and utter nonsense.

If that were truly the case then we would have received a fair return in assets, not a bunch of crap and 15 million dollars.

*hint- it was about the money.

Had nothing to do with a hockey deal, a new contract or anything else.

No kidding, I wasn't talking about Kings Ransom. I watched it and didn't learn a thing from it. What I did find interesting was the four books I did read about the trade. Peter Puck's book gives his take, Bruce McNall's gives his take, Gretzky's newest book gives his take and Stephen Brunt's book gives an independent take. I would say that getting four perspectives on it gives you a clear idea of what happened.

I have a history degree from University, so I know all about the biases inherent in historical writings. That multiple independent sources are necessary to build the whole picture. I am quite aware that the $15,000,000 was the driver behind the deal. In fact, I believe the early form of the deal was Gretzky for the $15,000,000 straight up. Glen Sather was the one who told Pocklington that he needed some players in return. The players the Oilers sent along was a collaboration between Gretzky and McNall. Also, what the Oilers received in return from a hockey standpoint was not terrible either at the time. Jimmy Carson was touted to be a superstar and had put up quite good numbers on a substandard Kings team. The first round picks, should have led to decent players, it was the Oilers management that blew those ones.

What in your mind would have been fair compensation from the Kings? Beyond Carson and Robitaille, the Kings really didn't have much in the way of scoring talent. Robitaille was deemed untouchable by McNall, so that was out. There wasn't much in the way of defencemen the Kings had to offer, so they couldn't have found a replacement for Coffey out of this. They didn't need a goalie and the best the Kings had at that time was Glen Healey and in November or so of 1988, he was traded to LA for Kelly Hrudey. So he was definitely not even a valuable asset for the Kings.

From a non-financial, on-ice standpoint, I don't think any team had the talent pool to come up with anything that would leave both sides satisfied for Gretzky. I think even Lemieux for Gretzky wouldn't have been fair then. The draft picks were really what the Oilers needed at that time. Since the core stars were aging, the Oilers needed young players to build upon before the core stars couldn't contribute any longer. So multiple first round picks are what was needed, now of course you can't guarantee that they will all be high picks when you send Gretzky at near the apex of his career (he was starting the downside by then but was still the top player in the league until about 1991 when his back started to be a problem) that team will instantly shoot up the standings. So the Oilers knew they were likely to get mid-teens at best from the 1st round picks. So that doesn't necessarily mean a blue chip prospect at that stage, but generally there is a quality player available at that stage.

If you look at the deal as Gretzky for $15,000,000 and McSorley and Krushlyniski (sp?) for Carson et al. The Kings were hosed in this perspective. The Gretzky for $15,000,000 seems fair. The rest of the deal benefits the Oilers. McSorley and Krusher were decent players at the time, but by no means worth the draft choices, Jimmy Carson and Martin Gelinas. McSorley developed into more than simply Dave Semenko's replacement, once he went to LA, but at the time he was more or less the muscle.

So play GM based on '87-'88 not what things turned out to be. Pocklington comes to you and says I have a deal with LA Gretzky for $15,000,000 but McNall is insisting of Krusher and McSorley too. What do you do? Robitaille is off limits according to McNall, so based on the Oilers needs at the time what do you do? You essentially need a second line centre (since Messier can be moved up to take Gretzky's spot on the first line) and possibly a offensive defenceman to replace Coffey.

However, you can vilify Peter Puck all you want over that deal. However, in Bruce McNall'a autobiography he mentions how before he owned the Kings he was friends with Dr. Jerry Buss, then Kings owner. He said Dr. Buss in 1985, had approached Pocklington about acquiring Gretzky and Peter Puck turned him down. So he wasn't willing to move players willy nilly, so there is a bit of truth about the impending free agency Gretzky would have had following the '88-'89 season had he stayed with the Oilers, that played into Pocklington's decision.

At any rate, my point is this. The crowd who was in attendance Friday night, including me, gave Peter Pocklington a standing ovation. If some want to continue to brandish torches and pitchforks towards the guy go ahead. But in reference to his time with the Oilers, I think his legacy has been largely forgiven by the Oiler fanbase. He might have some legal trouble, but it is nowhere near as bad as what others have done. Bruce McNall seems to be well liked by the Kings fanbase as a whole and he stole over $200,000,000 and nearly caused the demise of the franchise as a result.

 

[McTedi]

I wasn't around for any of it?!? I sure was. Just because I lived in Saskatoon, doesn't mean I was oblivious to the world around. From Age 5 on, I was obsessed with reading newspapers, watching news and watching Sportsdesk. Some of the details come from books relating to the Trade, between Stephen Brunt's book, Wayne Gretzky's three biographies, Peter Puck's biography and Bruce McNall's biography I have a fairly good idea of the events surrounding how he treated people. Maybe you are unwilling to forgive him and that's fine. But pick any former owner of a NHL team and you will find the same issues. The whole reason they were selling the team is that the money was running low, whether from the hockey team or another front.

You obviously have never heard what Wayne had felt about Peter Puck. I believe in his autobiography he mentions his dislike of Pocklington and in the Stephen Brunt book he mentions how he felt when Pocklington ran him down to Bruce McNall via teleconference before the trade happened. Also, the attacks Pocklington made on Janet following the trade. He even verbally ran down Walter Gretzky to Bruce McNall. Quite honestly, you run down my wife and father publicly I will never give you the time of day again.

I guess the point here is you hate the man Pocklington, whereas most people hate(d) the Oilers owner Pocklington. Did he ruin the Oilers franchise? Hardly, yes the dynasty was broken up but really, I doubt there would have been more than perhaps one more Cup after the 1990 Cup. Minus Mark Messier, the Kings had the nucleus of the Oilers dynasty with a couple other great pieces like Luc Robitaille, Dave Taylor and Larry Robinson and they didn't win a Cup. The other pieces went to New York with Mark Messier and they won the 1994 Cup. So regardless of what happened, he didn't ruin the franchise.

Now look at the vitrol you are spewing towards Pocklington. Do you hate Bruce McNall? I would say Pocklington's misdeeds are far less than that of McNall's. Bruce spent 70 months in solitary confinement in a maximum security US Federal Prison in Michigan for his fraudulent activities. He is not hated by the Kings faithful nor anyone else but he essentially stole well over $200,000,000. What about Craig MacTavish? He spent time in jail for killing someone in a car accident. Do you hate him? I could go on. Your beef with Peter Puck is either personal or you still hate him for trading Gretzky. Either way, there were 16,000 people at Rexall who were willing to respect the man.

By the way don't question my knowledge of hockey history. I know more trivial things about hockey dating back to the days of the WCHL and the Edmonton Eskimos (yes the hockey team) than most people would ever care to know. I have many times considered joining the SIHR.

But in the end, we get it you don't like Peter Puck and it is your crusade to ensure everyone else agrees with you. Well I am here to tell you I don't agree with you and frankly couldn't care less what you think about me. The man is a part of your franchise's history and whether you like it or not he had a hand in the success of your team. At least you still have a team to cheer for, there are many fans in Quebec and Hartford who would love to have a polarizing owner in their past that is being honoured by their current team. I am a Montreal Expos fan, so I know too well what it is like to see your team taken and moved. Whether you would like to admit it or not had Wild Bill (and you are forgetting the brief Nelson Skalbania ownership in 1976/77) hung on to the team there would be no Oilers. I doubt there would have even been NHL hockey in Edmonton at all.

But anyway, I had a great time at the reunion and glad it happened. I will leave this board and return to the Kings board, where there doesn't appear to be a bridge built.

I'm not sure you are going to appeal to many Edmontonians with this. Many of us know who he is and what he did. But the reunion wasn't about Puck and I am glad that he wasn't called out in an embarassing fashion. I am glad the Oilers org. had a good night for a change, even if it happened in the past.

 

[McTedi]

No kidding, I wasn't talking about Kings Ransom. I watched it and didn't learn a thing from it. What I did find interesting was the four books I did read about the trade. Peter Puck's book gives his take, Bruce McNall's gives his take, Gretzky's newest book gives his take and Stephen Brunt's book gives an independent take. I would say that getting four perspectives on it gives you a clear idea of what happened.

I have a history degree from University, so I know all about the biases inherent in historical writings. That multiple independent sources are necessary to build the whole picture. I am quite aware that the $15,000,000 was the driver behind the deal. In fact, I believe the early form of the deal was Gretzky for the $15,000,000 straight up. Glen Sather was the one who told Pocklington that he needed some players in return. The players the Oilers sent along was a collaboration between Gretzky and McNall. Also, what the Oilers received in return from a hockey standpoint was not terrible either at the time. Jimmy Carson was touted to be a superstar and had put up quite good numbers on a substandard Kings team. The first round picks, should have led to decent players, it was the Oilers management that blew those ones.

What in your mind would have been fair compensation from the Kings? Beyond Carson and Robitaille, the Kings really didn't have much in the way of scoring talent. Robitaille was deemed untouchable by McNall, so that was out. There wasn't much in the way of defencemen the Kings had to offer, so they couldn't have found a replacement for Coffey out of this. They didn't need a goalie and the best the Kings had at that time was Glen Healey and in November or so of 1988, he was traded to LA for Kelly Hrudey. So he was definitely not even a valuable asset for the Kings.

From a non-financial, on-ice standpoint, I don't think any team had the talent pool to come up with anything that would leave both sides satisfied for Gretzky. I think even Lemieux for Gretzky wouldn't have been fair then. The draft picks were really what the Oilers needed at that time. Since the core stars were aging, the Oilers needed young players to build upon before the core stars couldn't contribute any longer. So multiple first round picks are what was needed, now of course you can't guarantee that they will all be high picks when you send Gretzky at near the apex of his career (he was starting the downside by then but was still the top player in the league until about 1991 when his back started to be a problem) that team will instantly shoot up the standings. So the Oilers knew they were likely to get mid-teens at best from the 1st round picks. So that doesn't necessarily mean a blue chip prospect at that stage, but generally there is a quality player available at that stage.

If you look at the deal as Gretzky for $15,000,000 and McSorley and Krushlyniski (sp?) for Carson et al. The Kings were hosed in this perspective. The Gretzky for $15,000,000 seems fair. The rest of the deal benefits the Oilers. McSorley and Krusher were decent players at the time, but by no means worth the draft choices, Jimmy Carson and Martin Gelinas. McSorley developed into more than simply Dave Semenko's replacement, once he went to LA, but at the time he was more or less the muscle.

So play GM based on '87-'88 not what things turned out to be. Pocklington comes to you and says I have a deal with LA Gretzky for $15,000,000 but McNall is insisting of Krusher and McSorley too. What do you do? Robitaille is off limits according to McNall, so based on the Oilers needs at the time what do you do? You essentially need a second line centre (since Messier can be moved up to take Gretzky's spot on the first line) and possibly a offensive defenceman to replace Coffey.

However, you can vilify Peter Puck all you want over that deal. However, in Bruce McNall'a autobiography he mentions how before he owned the Kings he was friends with Dr. Jerry Buss, then Kings owner. He said Dr. Buss in 1985, had approached Pocklington about acquiring Gretzky and Peter Puck turned him down. So he wasn't willing to move players willy nilly, so there is a bit of truth about the impending free agency Gretzky would have had following the '88-'89 season had he stayed with the Oilers, that played into Pocklington's decision.

At any rate, my point is this. The crowd who was in attendance Friday night, including me, gave Peter Pocklington a standing ovation. If some want to continue to brandish torches and pitchforks towards the guy go ahead. But in reference to his time with the Oilers, I think his legacy has been largely forgiven by the Oiler fanbase. He might have some legal trouble, but it is nowhere near as bad as what others have done. Bruce McNall seems to be well liked by the Kings fanbase as a whole and he stole over $200,000,000 and nearly caused the demise of the franchise as a result.

15 mil. for the best player ever to play the game (my opinion) is fair? It is hard to say what would have happened had Gretzky stayed but one thing is for sure, the hockey team would have been better. Puck leveraged every dollar he could out of the Oilers, this city and franchise doesn't owe him anything and is better off without him.

 

[Soundwave]

I kinda wonder if Gretzky had been dealt to Detroit instead would we have gotten Yzerman?

Then again Pocklington would've just sold off Yzerman again a few years later too, but a Messier-Yzerman-Kurri-Anderson-Ranford/Fuhr probably could've won a couple more Cups too.

 

[I am the Liquor]

No kidding, I wasn't talking about Kings Ransom. I watched it and didn't learn a thing from it. What I did find interesting was the four books I did read about the trade. Peter Puck's book gives his take, Bruce McNall's gives his take, Gretzky's newest book gives his take and Stephen Brunt's book gives an independent take. I would say that getting four perspectives on it gives you a clear idea of what happened.

I have a history degree from University, so I know all about the biases inherent in historical writings. That multiple independent sources are necessary to build the whole picture. I am quite aware that the $15,000,000 was the driver behind the deal. In fact, I believe the early form of the deal was Gretzky for the $15,000,000 straight up. Glen Sather was the one who told Pocklington that he needed some players in return. The players the Oilers sent along was a collaboration between Gretzky and McNall. Also, what the Oilers received in return from a hockey standpoint was not terrible either at the time. Jimmy Carson was touted to be a superstar and had put up quite good numbers on a substandard Kings team. The first round picks, should have led to decent players, it was the Oilers management that blew those ones.

What in your mind would have been fair compensation from the Kings? Beyond Carson and Robitaille, the Kings really didn't have much in the way of scoring talent. Robitaille was deemed untouchable by McNall, so that was out. There wasn't much in the way of defencemen the Kings had to offer, so they couldn't have found a replacement for Coffey out of this. They didn't need a goalie and the best the Kings had at that time was Glen Healey and in November or so of 1988, he was traded to LA for Kelly Hrudey. So he was definitely not even a valuable asset for the Kings.

From a non-financial, on-ice standpoint, I don't think any team had the talent pool to come up with anything that would leave both sides satisfied for Gretzky. I think even Lemieux for Gretzky wouldn't have been fair then. The draft picks were really what the Oilers needed at that time. Since the core stars were aging, the Oilers needed young players to build upon before the core stars couldn't contribute any longer. So multiple first round picks are what was needed, now of course you can't guarantee that they will all be high picks when you send Gretzky at near the apex of his career (he was starting the downside by then but was still the top player in the league until about 1991 when his back started to be a problem) that team will instantly shoot up the standings. So the Oilers knew they were likely to get mid-teens at best from the 1st round picks. So that doesn't necessarily mean a blue chip prospect at that stage, but generally there is a quality player available at that stage.

If you look at the deal as Gretzky for $15,000,000 and McSorley and Krushlyniski (sp?) for Carson et al. The Kings were hosed in this perspective. The Gretzky for $15,000,000 seems fair. The rest of the deal benefits the Oilers. McSorley and Krusher were decent players at the time, but by no means worth the draft choices, Jimmy Carson and Martin Gelinas. McSorley developed into more than simply Dave Semenko's replacement, once he went to LA, but at the time he was more or less the muscle.

So play GM based on '87-'88 not what things turned out to be. Pocklington comes to you and says I have a deal with LA Gretzky for $15,000,000 but McNall is insisting of Krusher and McSorley too. What do you do? Robitaille is off limits according to McNall, so based on the Oilers needs at the time what do you do? You essentially need a second line centre (since Messier can be moved up to take Gretzky's spot on the first line) and possibly a offensive defenceman to replace Coffey.

However, you can vilify Peter Puck all you want over that deal. However, in Bruce McNall'a autobiography he mentions how before he owned the Kings he was friends with Dr. Jerry Buss, then Kings owner. He said Dr. Buss in 1985, had approached Pocklington about acquiring Gretzky and Peter Puck turned him down. So he wasn't willing to move players willy nilly, so there is a bit of truth about the impending free agency Gretzky would have had following the '88-'89 season had he stayed with the Oilers, that played into Pocklington's decision.

At any rate, my point is this. The crowd who was in attendance Friday night, including me, gave Peter Pocklington a standing ovation. If some want to continue to brandish torches and pitchforks towards the guy go ahead. But in reference to his time with the Oilers, I think his legacy has been largely forgiven by the Oiler fanbase. He might have some legal trouble, but it is nowhere near as bad as what others have done. Bruce McNall seems to be well liked by the Kings fanbase as a whole and he stole over $200,000,000 and nearly caused the demise of the franchise as a result.

He sold Gretzky to finance his other business ventures.

Had nothing to do with free agency, contract coming due or any semblance of a hockey deal.

Period.

Any attempt to try and rewrite history will be called out as bs by those who were actually there and lived through it.

That, of course was just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Pocklington screwing over the hockey team, the fans, the city, and the tax payers of Alberta.

University will teach exactly what they feel like wanting to teach you. Nothing more and nothing less.

It may or may not be actual truth.

In fact, if Pocklington parlayed his hall of fame players into hockey assets instead of bleeding the team dry like some kind of cannibalistic corporate raider, the hockey team would likely be far better off today, instead of pushing to break the futility record of most seasons without a playoff appearance.

 

[rboomercat90]

He sold Gretzky to finance his other business ventures.

Had nothing to do with free agency, contract coming due or any semblance of a hockey deal.

Period.

Any attempt to try and rewrite history will be called out as bs by those who were actually there and lived through it.

That, of course was just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Pocklington screwing over the hockey team, the fans, the city, and the tax payers of Alberta.

University will teach exactly what they feel like wanting to teach you. Nothing more and nothing less.

It may or may not be actual truth.

In fact, if Pocklington parlayed his hall of fame players into hockey assets instead of bleeding the team dry like some kind of cannibalistic corporate raider, the hockey team would likely be far better off today, instead of pushing to break the futility record of most seasons without a playoff appearance.

Finally...

It's nice to see some reality and truth in this thread.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

No kidding, I wasn't talking about Kings Ransom. I watched it and didn't learn a thing from it. What I did find interesting was the four books I did read about the trade. Peter Puck's book gives his take, Bruce McNall's gives his take, Gretzky's newest book gives his take and Stephen Brunt's book gives an independent take. I would say that getting four perspectives on it gives you a clear idea of what happened.

I have a history degree from University, so I know all about the biases inherent in historical writings. That multiple independent sources are necessary to build the whole picture. I am quite aware that the $15,000,000 was the driver behind the deal. In fact, I believe the early form of the deal was Gretzky for the $15,000,000 straight up. Glen Sather was the one who told Pocklington that he needed some players in return. The players the Oilers sent along was a collaboration between Gretzky and McNall. Also, what the Oilers received in return from a hockey standpoint was not terrible either at the time. Jimmy Carson was touted to be a superstar and had put up quite good numbers on a substandard Kings team. The first round picks, should have led to decent players, it was the Oilers management that blew those ones.

What in your mind would have been fair compensation from the Kings? Beyond Carson and Robitaille, the Kings really didn't have much in the way of scoring talent. Robitaille was deemed untouchable by McNall, so that was out. There wasn't much in the way of defencemen the Kings had to offer, so they couldn't have found a replacement for Coffey out of this. They didn't need a goalie and the best the Kings had at that time was Glen Healey and in November or so of 1988, he was traded to LA for Kelly Hrudey. So he was definitely not even a valuable asset for the Kings.

From a non-financial, on-ice standpoint, I don't think any team had the talent pool to come up with anything that would leave both sides satisfied for Gretzky. I think even Lemieux for Gretzky wouldn't have been fair then. The draft picks were really what the Oilers needed at that time. Since the core stars were aging, the Oilers needed young players to build upon before the core stars couldn't contribute any longer. So multiple first round picks are what was needed, now of course you can't guarantee that they will all be high picks when you send Gretzky at near the apex of his career (he was starting the downside by then but was still the top player in the league until about 1991 when his back started to be a problem) that team will instantly shoot up the standings. So the Oilers knew they were likely to get mid-teens at best from the 1st round picks. So that doesn't necessarily mean a blue chip prospect at that stage, but generally there is a quality player available at that stage.

If you look at the deal as Gretzky for $15,000,000 and McSorley and Krushlyniski (sp?) for Carson et al. The Kings were hosed in this perspective. The Gretzky for $15,000,000 seems fair. The rest of the deal benefits the Oilers. McSorley and Krusher were decent players at the time, but by no means worth the draft choices, Jimmy Carson and Martin Gelinas. McSorley developed into more than simply Dave Semenko's replacement, once he went to LA, but at the time he was more or less the muscle.

So play GM based on '87-'88 not what things turned out to be. Pocklington comes to you and says I have a deal with LA Gretzky for $15,000,000 but McNall is insisting of Krusher and McSorley too. What do you do? Robitaille is off limits according to McNall, so based on the Oilers needs at the time what do you do? You essentially need a second line centre (since Messier can be moved up to take Gretzky's spot on the first line) and possibly a offensive defenceman to replace Coffey.

However, you can vilify Peter Puck all you want over that deal. However, in Bruce McNall'a autobiography he mentions how before he owned the Kings he was friends with Dr. Jerry Buss, then Kings owner. He said Dr. Buss in 1985, had approached Pocklington about acquiring Gretzky and Peter Puck turned him down. So he wasn't willing to move players willy nilly, so there is a bit of truth about the impending free agency Gretzky would have had following the '88-'89 season had he stayed with the Oilers, that played into Pocklington's decision.

At any rate, my point is this. The crowd who was in attendance Friday night, including me, gave Peter Pocklington a standing ovation. If some want to continue to brandish torches and pitchforks towards the guy go ahead. But in reference to his time with the Oilers, I think his legacy has been largely forgiven by the Oiler fanbase. He might have some legal trouble, but it is nowhere near as bad as what others have done. Bruce McNall seems to be well liked by the Kings fanbase as a whole and he stole over $200,000,000 and nearly caused the demise of the franchise as a result.

This is actually a great post. Don't listen to the guys who have their head in the sand and yelling I WAS THERE SO IT IS THE ONLY PERSPECTIVE because they don't want to listen to anything else.