So back to ice hockey. The 1860s Starr Skate patents were found to be very advantageous when it came to playing ice hockey.
I don't think anyone is questioning that. I am sure these skates were used in the first Montreal games 1875, but they were still not specific "hockey skates" or advertised as such at the time.
In other words your objections or search for pre 1881 specific hockey skates brings no benefit to the discussion. Conversely if you could show what was unique or beneficial to hockey about the 1881 Standard Hockey Skates patent then there may be some interest.
It may not bring benefit to the discussion in your opinion, but it's still a fact that these
specific hockey skates from at least 1881 (maybe earlier) are the earliest known skates
made specifically for the game of hockey. The Starr skates were not as far as we know.
I have already posted info on the "Standard Hockey Skates" in another thread.
As things stand you have the irony of the 1881 Standard Hockey Skates being approved by the National Skating Association(not a Hockey specific association but a skating association) October 14, 1881 or more than 10 years after the Starr patents were issued and used for multiple skating activities in Canada including ice hockey.
I would say that the irony here is that you have absolutely no clue what the National Skating Association was all about.
When it was formed in Cambridge 1879 the object was specifically, and I quote:
" to promote and reward speed-skating by the establishment and management of amateur and open skating championships of England ; to promote and encourage figure-skating by the establishment of standards at which figure-skaters may aim, and by bestowing badges of merit on those who attain these standards ; to provide
rules for the game of hockey on the ice ; to promote the establishment of international skating contests in various countries under the direction of an international council "
When their first hockey rules came in 1883 they were the first known rules drawn up by a national association, predating the Montreal AHAC rules by more than three years.
Basically an early licensing agreement disguised as a patent is what you have in 1881. The skates were authorized but not mandated as exclusive for the playing of ice hockey. Major difference. Patrt of a long line of possible skate options for those wishing to play ice hockey in the jurisdiction.
Completely irrelevant. As early as 1881 we know for sure that specific skates were manufactured in Sheffield for the game of hockey in mind, nothing else, nothing less. It is simple as that.
The Starr skates were obviously very good for the game of hockey, but they were not specifically manufactured for it. That is the difference here. Unless you show me a contemporary ad from a newspaper or catalogue before 1881 that specifically say they were used for hockey, then the fact still remains, the Sheffield skates were the first ones produced with hockey specifically in mind.
It is not that hard to comprehend, is it ?
Laverance wrote that the ''Starr Acme Club Skate'' was invented in 1863 and Renamed the ''Starr Hockey Skate'' in 1866.
Theokritos corrected him on that.
I think you agree with me that we should try to deal with facts and not assumptions and fuzzy interpretations.
Do you have any sort of contemporary source dated before 1881 that says anything about the Starr skates being "Starr Hockey Skates" ? If you do, then I would love to see it and it would be awesome.
As I said, I don't think anyone doubt they were used before 1881 for hockey, but were they really called "hockey skates", or advertised as such at the time?
Are you saying that the "Standard Hockey Skates" from (at least) 1881 were not skates manufactured specifically for hockey?
To be perfectly honest with you, I have no idea what you are arguing against. I am providing you with facts and you are giving me some weird arguments in return.