1837 Ice Hockey in Montreal
- Thread starter Canadiens1958
- Start date
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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^^^ Wow. Nice find C58. Uptown vs Dorchesters' in February of 1837 in a game sponsored in part by Molsons. While not really shocking or surprising as I & many many others have long suspected the games origins run far deeper than the first recorded game (Montreal Rules) in Montreal and Nova Scotia, this is the first time Ive read so detailed an account of its origins in Montreal.
* first stick
* first puck
* first real Sponsorship
* first Championship Game
That first report in particular linked above is so well written, you can almost hear Knox as he riffles through his own & his fathers papers, all written in longhand & held together with clothes pins. These are not the ramblings of someone suffering senility or whatever. Totally believable, real, and though 8 aside, referred to as Hurley on Ice, the design of that stick with its flat bottom & the improvised puck including its dimensions, no mistake, thats Hockey.
I also like his mention of how some 43,000 Canadians served under the North during the Civil War, a forgotten chapter of our shared history in North America, and how sometimes these things are not known as theyve simply not received much if any contemporary or post event/activity press. Only years, decades later are old diaries uncovered, intriguing hints like this one surfacing & so on.
All kinds of examples, some of it deliberate, nefarious, such as Operation Paperclip in the late 40's & 50's or what have you. Protected indefinitely sealed under FOIA's beyond anyones lifetimes, some history books more fiction than fact. And yet when things are unearthed, academia refuting the evidence as it doesnt fit the long since established precepts and theories, dogma; the views or perspectives of whatever theories any given science be it pure, geo or political upon which theyve been reliant. Not easy to accept. That ones views & theories could be incorrect. That everything you thought you knew was wrong.
* first stick
* first puck
* first real Sponsorship
* first Championship Game
That first report in particular linked above is so well written, you can almost hear Knox as he riffles through his own & his fathers papers, all written in longhand & held together with clothes pins. These are not the ramblings of someone suffering senility or whatever. Totally believable, real, and though 8 aside, referred to as Hurley on Ice, the design of that stick with its flat bottom & the improvised puck including its dimensions, no mistake, thats Hockey.
I also like his mention of how some 43,000 Canadians served under the North during the Civil War, a forgotten chapter of our shared history in North America, and how sometimes these things are not known as theyve simply not received much if any contemporary or post event/activity press. Only years, decades later are old diaries uncovered, intriguing hints like this one surfacing & so on.
All kinds of examples, some of it deliberate, nefarious, such as Operation Paperclip in the late 40's & 50's or what have you. Protected indefinitely sealed under FOIA's beyond anyones lifetimes, some history books more fiction than fact. And yet when things are unearthed, academia refuting the evidence as it doesnt fit the long since established precepts and theories, dogma; the views or perspectives of whatever theories any given science be it pure, geo or political upon which theyve been reliant. Not easy to accept. That ones views & theories could be incorrect. That everything you thought you knew was wrong.
Last edited:
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Thank You
The positions listed are similar to lacrosse positions. The opposing teams feature three family names - Dion, Joyal and Perreault that may be French.
The Molson family connection is interesting.
The positions listed are similar to lacrosse positions. The opposing teams feature three family names - Dion, Joyal and Perreault that may be French.
The Molson family connection is interesting.
Theokritos
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- Apr 6, 2010
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Riiight.
Then of course there are some rather ostentatious claims made by Knox (and McNamara) that we know are unfounded. The first game ever played took place in Montreal anno 1837? No, hockey/hurley/etc. on ice was in fact played in other places (Windsor, Pictou, Halifax etc, not to mention England) earlier than that, 1810s and 1820s at least. "First stick" and "original rules"? Both obsolete accordingly.
That said, Knox does provide a very valuable and highly interesting testimony for early (earliest?) ice hockey in Montreal. Thanks for linking the articles!
Killion
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Riiight.
...
ya, reminded me a bit of Aurele Joliats comment about Gretzky:
"No way would we have let him humiliate us like he
does out there today. We'd have got him but good"
(or words to that affect)
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Context
Both the Orlick and Knox contributions were critiqued while they were incomplete.Articles in each series were missing.
The details of the thir Knox article will be posted by the middle / end of next week. Also both series had a very narrow scope. The rebuttal of Kingston's clim of a right to the HHOF because it was the birthplace of hockey in Canada. This was the view promoted by Kingston's Capt. Sutherland.
Within the context of the location of the Hockey Hall of Fame in Canada the choice was between Nova Scotia, with various municipalities making claims, Montreal and Kingston.
Europe or England or the USA did not have a claim for the HHOF so their claims were not part of the debate.
Riiight.
Then of course there are some rather ostentatious claims made by Knox (and McNamara) that we know are unfounded. The first game ever played took place in Montreal anno 1837? No, hockey/hurley/etc. on ice was in fact played in other places (Windsor, Pictou, Halifax etc, not to mention England) earlier than that, 1810s and 1820s at least. "First stick" and "original rules"? Both obsolete accordingly.
That said, Knox does provide a very valuable and highly interesting testimony for early (earliest?) ice hockey in Montreal. Thanks for linking the articles!
Both the Orlick and Knox contributions were critiqued while they were incomplete.Articles in each series were missing.
The details of the thir Knox article will be posted by the middle / end of next week. Also both series had a very narrow scope. The rebuttal of Kingston's clim of a right to the HHOF because it was the birthplace of hockey in Canada. This was the view promoted by Kingston's Capt. Sutherland.
Within the context of the location of the Hockey Hall of Fame in Canada the choice was between Nova Scotia, with various municipalities making claims, Montreal and Kingston.
Europe or England or the USA did not have a claim for the HHOF so their claims were not part of the debate.
Crosbyfan
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2003
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8 Positions
Goal, Point, Cover Pt., Centre, Rover, Home, Left Side, Right Side.
When you pass the puck "back to the point" just inside the offensive blueline, is this originally a reference to the old positions or to the area of the ice?
Also note that the goals were 8-10 feet wide and staked 4 feet high…
It would be interesting to find the third article of the 3.
Goal, Point, Cover Pt., Centre, Rover, Home, Left Side, Right Side.
When you pass the puck "back to the point" just inside the offensive blueline, is this originally a reference to the old positions or to the area of the ice?
Also note that the goals were 8-10 feet wide and staked 4 feet high…
It would be interesting to find the third article of the 3.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
1837 Championship Game
Third article of the series appeared February 5, 1941 on page 16 of the Montreal Gazette. Not possible to link.
The article details the 1837 champgionship game between the Canadians and the Dorchesters. The game was held at the Dorschester and St. George St. venue, Today Dorchester is Rene Levesque BLVD, widened as part of the 1956 Dozois urban renewal plan while St. George St disappeared during the same urban renewal plan, eventually replaced by the Guy Favreau Complex which covers the field and the rest of the neighbourhood.
The game was held March 11, 1837 starting at 2:00 PM with a 4:00PM limit regardless of the score.First team to score three goals would be the winner. Ends would be changed after every goal.
Lineups
Canadians Position Dorchesters
Jev Charlebois Goal Jim McClure
Dollard Roy Point Jim Stapleton
Alfred Peloquin Cover Pt. J. Perreault
Emile Guilbeault Center Pete Glennon
Josh Devlin Rover Mort Gleason
Dick Duchesneau Home Paul Joyal
Alex L'Esperence Left Side Jos. Dion
Pat Hogan Right Side Michael Knox
The game's features are described in detail, especially the stickhandling by Josh Devlin, Time of each goal is chronicled. Stapleton opened the scoring after 20 minutes, then the Canadians replied with three goals. Guilbeault 10 minutes later followed by Duchesneau 16 minutes hence and the winner by Devlin 18 minutes later.
The winning Canadians featured 6 of 8 players whose surnames suggest French Canadian origin while the Dorchesters featured 3 players of French Canadian origin.
9 of 16 total.
Spectators were locals including school children plus British soldiers from the garrison at St. Helen's Island. This opens the possibility of the game migrating from Montreal to Kingston via the soldiers and influencing various hockey type activities in England when British soldiers were rotated back home.
Third article of the series appeared February 5, 1941 on page 16 of the Montreal Gazette. Not possible to link.
The article details the 1837 champgionship game between the Canadians and the Dorchesters. The game was held at the Dorschester and St. George St. venue, Today Dorchester is Rene Levesque BLVD, widened as part of the 1956 Dozois urban renewal plan while St. George St disappeared during the same urban renewal plan, eventually replaced by the Guy Favreau Complex which covers the field and the rest of the neighbourhood.
The game was held March 11, 1837 starting at 2:00 PM with a 4:00PM limit regardless of the score.First team to score three goals would be the winner. Ends would be changed after every goal.
Lineups
Canadians Position Dorchesters
Jev Charlebois Goal Jim McClure
Dollard Roy Point Jim Stapleton
Alfred Peloquin Cover Pt. J. Perreault
Emile Guilbeault Center Pete Glennon
Josh Devlin Rover Mort Gleason
Dick Duchesneau Home Paul Joyal
Alex L'Esperence Left Side Jos. Dion
Pat Hogan Right Side Michael Knox
The game's features are described in detail, especially the stickhandling by Josh Devlin, Time of each goal is chronicled. Stapleton opened the scoring after 20 minutes, then the Canadians replied with three goals. Guilbeault 10 minutes later followed by Duchesneau 16 minutes hence and the winner by Devlin 18 minutes later.
The winning Canadians featured 6 of 8 players whose surnames suggest French Canadian origin while the Dorchesters featured 3 players of French Canadian origin.
9 of 16 total.
Spectators were locals including school children plus British soldiers from the garrison at St. Helen's Island. This opens the possibility of the game migrating from Montreal to Kingston via the soldiers and influencing various hockey type activities in England when British soldiers were rotated back home.
Robert Gordon Orr
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When SIHR released their report of the Sub-Committee Looking into Claim that Windsor, Nova Scotia, is the Birthplace of Hockey in May 2002, they wrote:
"The Montreal Gazette (February 4, 1941) reports a claim that the first-ever game of hockey was played in Montreal in February 1837. According to city resident Michael Knox, then 84 years of age, the game was known as “ice hurley.†The story blends personal recollections from Knox’s own youth, in the late 1860s and early 1870s, with those passed on by his father from thirty years earlier. It includes anachronisms, including the identification of positions of the players, which were actually those of lacrosse, a game not played by white men until 1844 and not codified until 1856. We do not know the whereabouts of the Knox notes, nor are we aware of any assessment of them."
I have personally researched the available Montreal newspapers from this period but didn't find anything, which I didn't expect anyway.
Back then of course it would probably have to be a significant event to even get mentioned.
To be fair to Knox, I did find that several of the players he mentioned really existed, so at least he didn't make it all up, but as far as I know, not many hockey historians put much weight to the Knox story.
Theokritos
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Killion
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I guess because its all seemingly anecdotal, no contemporary media reports, the notes in Knox's possession at the time those articles were written have seemingly vanished. And I guess ultimately what they were playing wasnt technically "hockey" as per the later Montreal Rules Game.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Well......
To be fair to the SIHR they relied on one article when in fact as evidenced here three were published. The contributor to the articles was John T. Knox, pictured in the first article, dated November 1, 1941 and clearly identified in the series of three.Michael Knox was the father of John T. Knox.
Publications after 2002 about the 19th century history of lacrosse in Montréal show that the sport was played before 1844 by non natives.
The story was written by Harold McNamara and as writers from all eras are wont to do he contemporized descriptions for the 1941 audience.
The key elements have not been studied at all by the critics. The district - St. George and Dorchester Streets was in the RED Light/shanty area of Montréal. Home to new immigrants and new Montrealers from rural Québec before they moved onto better parts of town. The teams and available fields referred to fit very well with the known athletic fields in Montréal and were within a fifteen minute walk of each other.The transient nature of the entry level working class and the 1837-38 Rebellion;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion
would have interrupted continuity but the growth of militia training in schools and militia type sports also dates back to 1837. Canadian Militia interest in ice hockey or simply hitting a projectile with a stick while skating on a frozen body of water dates back to the 1837-38 time period.
The working class had a very limited window to participate in winter sports. Ice hockey would have been possible from mid November to mid March depending on when the freeze and thaws occured but the working class worked until 5PM or later, M-F and noon Saturday. During this period the sun would set soon after 4PM. Church on Sundays, lunch, lack of viable post dusk lighting and lack of public transit, there was perhaps a total of seven hours of viable time for the working class to enjoy sporting recreation during the mid November to mid March periods.
If several of the players that John T. Knox mentions existed then a game or games must have been played.
To be fair to the SIHR they relied on one article when in fact as evidenced here three were published. The contributor to the articles was John T. Knox, pictured in the first article, dated November 1, 1941 and clearly identified in the series of three.Michael Knox was the father of John T. Knox.
Publications after 2002 about the 19th century history of lacrosse in Montréal show that the sport was played before 1844 by non natives.
The story was written by Harold McNamara and as writers from all eras are wont to do he contemporized descriptions for the 1941 audience.
The key elements have not been studied at all by the critics. The district - St. George and Dorchester Streets was in the RED Light/shanty area of Montréal. Home to new immigrants and new Montrealers from rural Québec before they moved onto better parts of town. The teams and available fields referred to fit very well with the known athletic fields in Montréal and were within a fifteen minute walk of each other.The transient nature of the entry level working class and the 1837-38 Rebellion;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Canada_Rebellion
would have interrupted continuity but the growth of militia training in schools and militia type sports also dates back to 1837. Canadian Militia interest in ice hockey or simply hitting a projectile with a stick while skating on a frozen body of water dates back to the 1837-38 time period.
The working class had a very limited window to participate in winter sports. Ice hockey would have been possible from mid November to mid March depending on when the freeze and thaws occured but the working class worked until 5PM or later, M-F and noon Saturday. During this period the sun would set soon after 4PM. Church on Sundays, lunch, lack of viable post dusk lighting and lack of public transit, there was perhaps a total of seven hours of viable time for the working class to enjoy sporting recreation during the mid November to mid March periods.
If several of the players that John T. Knox mentions existed then a game or games must have been played.
Robert Gordon Orr
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I did this research several years ago. Earlier today, when I looked at what I had found, it was actually only Michael Knox who I could ID for sure. In 1837 there was a Jim McLure and Jim Stapleton who were in their early 30s, and a Pat Hogan who was in his 40s. Other than that I was unable to find anyone on those two teams that appeared in any census from Montreal/Quebec in the 1800s that could have been the players mentioned.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Church
What about checking Church baptismal records for the various names, especially the Catholic churches/parishes,diocese, then the death records, as well as the ship passenger lists and immigration records?
What about checking Church baptismal records for the various names, especially the Catholic churches/parishes,diocese, then the death records, as well as the ship passenger lists and immigration records?
Killion
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I suppose you could just to prove these people actually existed but I dont think the burden proof should be that severe by any stretch in taking Knox the Elder or Juniors word for it. You had a transient population in Montreal at that time, Census Records wouldve been rudimentary at best, far from being completely accurate.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Agree
Agree completely. Just shedding light on data sources should one wish to do an intensive study.
Agree completely. Just shedding light on data sources should one wish to do an intensive study.
Killion
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Sure enough, just strikes me as being over the top, to think that the Knox's would engage in the ergodic, creation of fictitious events & characters.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
The Events
Especially in 1941 Montreal with the complicity of the Montreal Gazette. The Montreal Gazette was quite vocal in their treatment of the anti-conscription movement and were instrumental in the 1940 incarceration of Mayor Camillien Houde for his anti-conscription stand. Add the question of benefit for all concerned.
Not exactly front page news. Audience was more interested in knowing if loved ones were safe in Europe.
Back to the details.
The November 1, 1941 article provides some background. Key is the link to Hurling and the Irish immigrants. Reference to Ice Hurling.
Hurling brief historic outline:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hurling
Hurling rules:
http://www.leinstergaa.ie/_fileupload/Playing_Rules_of_Hurling_.pdf
Frequent use of the word puck and derivatives is very telling.
Second article has an interesting detail that is overlooked. The goal posts. Similar to lacrosse goalposts in size and shape, with the flags on top. Also similar to the 1875 March 3, game goalposts.
September 24, 1834 the game of lacrosse was introduced on the island of Montreal, exhibition featuring two native teams, Europeans , mainly French Canadiens took to the game immediately and by 1844 were so proficient that the game was part of the Montreal Olympics held in late summer. This is documented in Tewaarathon and Le jeu de lacrosse à Montreal au XIX siecle, published in 2008.
As stated previously the narrative fits very well with known multi-purpose athletic fileds in Montreal districts and neighbourhoods, yet reflects the proximity of fields used by opposing participants.
The narrative third article allows for the movement of the activity to Kingston via the militia while respecting the history of the 1837-38 Rebellion. British troops on their way to Kingston from Britain would have to pass through Montreal.
Especially in 1941 Montreal with the complicity of the Montreal Gazette. The Montreal Gazette was quite vocal in their treatment of the anti-conscription movement and were instrumental in the 1940 incarceration of Mayor Camillien Houde for his anti-conscription stand. Add the question of benefit for all concerned.
Not exactly front page news. Audience was more interested in knowing if loved ones were safe in Europe.
Back to the details.
The November 1, 1941 article provides some background. Key is the link to Hurling and the Irish immigrants. Reference to Ice Hurling.
Hurling brief historic outline:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hurling
Hurling rules:
http://www.leinstergaa.ie/_fileupload/Playing_Rules_of_Hurling_.pdf
Frequent use of the word puck and derivatives is very telling.
Second article has an interesting detail that is overlooked. The goal posts. Similar to lacrosse goalposts in size and shape, with the flags on top. Also similar to the 1875 March 3, game goalposts.
September 24, 1834 the game of lacrosse was introduced on the island of Montreal, exhibition featuring two native teams, Europeans , mainly French Canadiens took to the game immediately and by 1844 were so proficient that the game was part of the Montreal Olympics held in late summer. This is documented in Tewaarathon and Le jeu de lacrosse à Montreal au XIX siecle, published in 2008.
As stated previously the narrative fits very well with known multi-purpose athletic fileds in Montreal districts and neighbourhoods, yet reflects the proximity of fields used by opposing participants.
The narrative third article allows for the movement of the activity to Kingston via the militia while respecting the history of the 1837-38 Rebellion. British troops on their way to Kingston from Britain would have to pass through Montreal.
Killion
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Yes, the Patriots as they were called; led by Louis Joseph Papineau in Lower Canada, William Lyon MacKenzie in Upper Canada. Eventually 13 Executed / 86 Transported to Australia. British Troops would have passed through Montreal however amongst their enlisted, many who had previously served in Ireland, some of pure others of mixed Irish~English descent and who wouldve been familiar with Hurley. At the same time entire Regiments of Volunteers culled from Pentenguishine, Lanark County, Montreal (who provided Cavalry Regiments, Infantry etc) itself, you name it, from all over hill & dale. Many who served of mixed Scots-Irish/French, mixed North American Native, some pure, all over the map.
Iain Fyffe
Hockey fact-checker
This is simply untrue, and suggests a very lax standard for evidence. Historical fiction is written all the time that refers to real people and real places; it doesn't mean the particular stories are true. We know George Washington existed, but he didn't cut down any cherry tree. That story, believed by many, is a myth. Just because he was real does not mean all stories told about him must be at least partly true.
A claim should not be accepted as being likely true unless there is sufficient evidence to do so. If you do not use such a standard of evidence, you will allow yourself to believe mutually-exclusive claims to be true. For instance, Chick Murray and Henry Joseph make mutually-exclusive claims about the development of 1870s hockey in Montreal. If the fact that they both refer to people who we know to be involved means that we must accept their stories are true, we end up accepting two mutually-exclusive versions of the same events. This is not tenable, and is why we seek corroboration. If you care about whether a particular claim is true or not, you will seek corroboration.
There are ample reasons to be skeptical of Knox's story, to the degree that it can be safely rejected unless further evidence is uncovered. While some of the people mentioned can be found in censuses etc, many cannot. This is not damning in itself, since censuses around this time were not nearly as complete as later ones, but the lack of names is noteworthy.
The use of the term "rover" is anachronistic. Its first use in Montreal hockey was in the 1890s, before then there were just four forwards.
Most of the positions are named after lacrosse, but this game had only been demonstrated in Montreal three years earlier, and was certainly not codified with such positions at the time. It wasn't until the 1850s that lacrosse was organized in that manner in Montreal. So all of the position names are likely anachronistic.
The claim about inventing a rubber puck at the spur of the moment is too "just so" to be believable without corroboration. Also vulcanization was not invented until 1839, and natural rubber becomes brittle at cold temperatures and as such wouldn't be a great choice for the object of play in an ice game.
The claim that the hockey stick was born in November 1836 is also dubious. The sticks used in 1870s hockey in Montreal were imported from Halifax. Why would they do this if hockey sticks were already known in the city?
While a source document is claimed, almost none of it is actually reproduced, and apparently the entire thing was written by the younger Knox in his own hand anyway. There is no documented provenance. Nothing of it survives today. Do you really want to accept at face value the claims of a man who said that he and "lots" of his chums would have skated rings around an in-his-prime Syl Apps? Clearly Knox was an exaggerator to say the least.
And, of course, the old problem of not defining terms arises here. If Knox and his chums invented "hockey", as is claimed, what do they mean by hockey? The game described appears to have been ice hurling, in fact, and if any similar game played on ice can qualify as "hockey", we know that such games were played in England at least before 1837.
So even if everything that Knox relates in the story is accurate, the claim that it was the "first hockey" is undemonstrated. What made it hockey, and other similar games played on ice in England not hockey?
So, in summary: there are strong reasons to reject the story at face value, and even if every word of it is accurate, the claim of it being "first" seems false anyway.
ThirtyFive
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- Jan 4, 2007
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- 0
The story may or may not be true, but to me "hockey" (or technically "ice hockey") is simply two teams on the ice playing a game on skates with sticks, a sort of puck, and goals. Isn't that all there is to it? There still needs to be more research into the evolution of ice hockey, I think. We still don't know very much about how exactly it evolved. Those people in 1875 in Montreal didn't just decide to play a brand new sport.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Evidence
Again you fall into the trap of misrepresenting an early 1940s Canadian discussion that was centered around the origins of Ice Hockey in Canada that was integral to the debate about the final location of the planned Hockey Hall of Fame. Nova Scotia, Montréal or Kingston were the three venues under consideration. Unless you have evidence that a venue in England was also under consideration for the honour of hosting the Hockey Hall of Fame then whatever happened before 1837 outside of Canada does not matter.
The debate was very narrow. Canadian origins of the game that became known as Ice Hockey. Orlick and others simply focused on the precise nature of the discussion as it was before them. England or other countries were not up for consideration.
So an 84 year old who is sufficiently alert to appreciate the greats of the early 1940s and playful enough to joke with the interviewer while maintaining a historic perspective is an exaggerator? Perhaps he is only commenting about the fact that he and his contemporaries did not have access to the same quality equipment that Syl Apps and stars of the 1940s did.
A number of aspects about the Knox article are impressive once the the history of the area or district is examined carefully.
The movement of British militia inland from Halifax/Nova Scotia to Montréal and Kingston is accurate. The British militia at the time was stationned at the old fort on Ile St.Helene and would cross the river arriving on the island of Montréal a short walk from the neighbourhood in question.The Montréal playing fields of the day are portrayed accurately and the interaction of the French and English, young adults, youth, schoolchildren is accurately portrayed. The neighbourhood in question was the home of a unique educationatal institution that was nonconfessional and nonlinguistic. So the linguistic and religious barriers that surfaced later were absent.
Again you fall into the trap of misrepresenting an early 1940s Canadian discussion that was centered around the origins of Ice Hockey in Canada that was integral to the debate about the final location of the planned Hockey Hall of Fame. Nova Scotia, Montréal or Kingston were the three venues under consideration. Unless you have evidence that a venue in England was also under consideration for the honour of hosting the Hockey Hall of Fame then whatever happened before 1837 outside of Canada does not matter.
The debate was very narrow. Canadian origins of the game that became known as Ice Hockey. Orlick and others simply focused on the precise nature of the discussion as it was before them. England or other countries were not up for consideration.
So an 84 year old who is sufficiently alert to appreciate the greats of the early 1940s and playful enough to joke with the interviewer while maintaining a historic perspective is an exaggerator? Perhaps he is only commenting about the fact that he and his contemporaries did not have access to the same quality equipment that Syl Apps and stars of the 1940s did.
A number of aspects about the Knox article are impressive once the the history of the area or district is examined carefully.
The movement of British militia inland from Halifax/Nova Scotia to Montréal and Kingston is accurate. The British militia at the time was stationned at the old fort on Ile St.Helene and would cross the river arriving on the island of Montréal a short walk from the neighbourhood in question.The Montréal playing fields of the day are portrayed accurately and the interaction of the French and English, young adults, youth, schoolchildren is accurately portrayed. The neighbourhood in question was the home of a unique educationatal institution that was nonconfessional and nonlinguistic. So the linguistic and religious barriers that surfaced later were absent.
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Lacrosse and Ice Hurling
First reported Lacrosse game in Montréal dates back to the first half of the 1830s. Played by the Europeans, shortly thereafter, matter of days. First all European lacrosse club was formed in 1842 - Montréal Olympic Club. By 1850 Lacrosse was included in the 1850 Montréal Olympic Games( a local event, not international)
No claim of a first hockey stick was ever made. The games as described and the equipment seems to be modified for ice hurling, first reported in Québec City in the early 1820s, later banned by the municipality around 1850. The traditional hurling stick was flattened at the bottom in Montréal for the 1837 game.
First reported Lacrosse game in Montréal dates back to the first half of the 1830s. Played by the Europeans, shortly thereafter, matter of days. First all European lacrosse club was formed in 1842 - Montréal Olympic Club. By 1850 Lacrosse was included in the 1850 Montréal Olympic Games( a local event, not international)
No claim of a first hockey stick was ever made. The games as described and the equipment seems to be modified for ice hurling, first reported in Québec City in the early 1820s, later banned by the municipality around 1850. The traditional hurling stick was flattened at the bottom in Montréal for the 1837 game.
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
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... fascinating article here from last February, early history of the game in Toronto: www.torontosun.com/2015/02/14/first-hockey-game-in-toronto-history
Canadiens1958
Registered User
Rubber
Rubber would not be impacted by the mid afternoon cold in Montréal:
https://www.tut.fi/ms/muo/tyreschool/moduulit/moduuli_6/hypertext/5/5_2.html
Fact of the matter is that natural rubber or other forms of rubber has been used for the delivery bicycle tires in Montréal and throughout Québec during the coldest winter for over 100 years without a problem:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=mont...X&ved=0CB8QsARqFQoTCKCcwvTly8YCFY4akgod5yMBZQ
Rubber would not be impacted by the mid afternoon cold in Montréal:
https://www.tut.fi/ms/muo/tyreschool/moduulit/moduuli_6/hypertext/5/5_2.html
Fact of the matter is that natural rubber or other forms of rubber has been used for the delivery bicycle tires in Montréal and throughout Québec during the coldest winter for over 100 years without a problem:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=mont...X&ved=0CB8QsARqFQoTCKCcwvTly8YCFY4akgod5yMBZQ
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Eisbaren Berlin @ Pinguins Bremerhaven - Eisbaren Berlin leads series 3-1Wagers: 5Staked: $6,549.00Event closes- Updated:
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BET ON ONLY ONE HORSE Bewitch Stakes (Gr. 3) - KEENELAND RACE 8Wagers: 6Staked: $2,300.00Event closes- Updated:
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