Post-Game Talk: #18 | Flyers at Canadiens | November 19, 2022 | 7:00 PM |

[Beef Invictus]

I also remember, back when it was convenient as defense for the worst management in the NHL, that a player not passing through waivers was proof they're good.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He obviously has little to no trade value and not much on-ice value either. Otherwise he wouldn't get waived all the time. Caps fans are already fed up with him.

Caps fans are fed up with nearly their whole roster and have been for years, despite it being far better then ours.

 

[VladDrag]

Caufield has a great shot, and is an agile skater, but he's pretty much DeBrincat II, that is, he'll score for a while, but he's awful on defense, and with that small body and lacking elite speed, once the dings and wear and tear erode his scoring skills, he'll be a disaster on a big second contract. Kind of guy you draft if you're already a good team and can shelter him and take advantage of his skill package.

The difference with Patrick Kane is his elite speed, he's still a black hole on defense, but his speed has allowed him to outscore his deficiencies for a decade.

You understand the total on-ice impact, yeah?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes he does, but it must be selectively deleted to defend Fletcher

 

[deadhead]

DeBrincat has a cap hit of $6.4M, won't sign an extension and has a QO of $9M next year.
I wouldn't touch him at $9M. But some team will give him 7x9+.
Players like that often peak early in their career, but what upside does he have? What adjustments can he make as he ages?

Like I said, a great pick for a playoff team that can shelter him, use him on PP1 and get the most out of his scoring skills until his contract becomes onerous.
But not the kind of player I'd make the centerpiece for a rebuilding team.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No I don’t think that’s what you argued. Nor was it meant as an argumentative statement.

Do you think that MacEwen is a better offensive player than Frost? It’s a simple yes or no question.

I don't have a yes or no answer.

I think Frost is *supposed* to be the better offensive player.

That doesn't mean he has been.

Overall this season to date, I think MacEwen has been the more effective player in addition to outscoring him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

DeBrincat has a cap hit of $6.4M, won't sign an extension and has a QO of $9M next year.
I wouldn't touch him at $9M. But some team will give him 7x9+.
Players like that often peak early in their career, but what upside does he have? What adjustments can he make as he ages?

Like I said, a great pick for a playoff team that can shelter him, use him on PP1 and get the most out of his scoring skills until his contract becomes onerous.
But not the kind of player I'd make the centerpiece for a rebuilding team.

You're shifting the goalposts.

You scoffed at Caulfield as being "Debrincat II" as if he's a bad player. Which was ridiculous.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't have a yes or no answer.

I think Frost is *supposed* to be the better offensive player.

That doesn't mean he has been.

Overall this season to date, I think MacEwen has been the more effective player in addition to outscoring him.

Did you learn anything from watching Hayes getting Frost's usual usage?

I see you're doing the thing where you're too afraid to outright say you think a player is better so you'll just heavily insinuate it, like you did with Hagg.

 

[mr4tno]

Yes actually... them and I think Cates, Provy and TDA

I believe Brown was -2 in &+ minutes of playing time

MacEwen had another good game. Anyone beating on him is doing so on reputation, not play.

Sucks they lost, but it was a fun game to watch.

I'm not a MacEwen fan. However, he is "engaging" on the ice, can skate (which is lacking up and down the flyers line-up) and noticeable (+ and -). Any team that has him anywhere except the 4th is a team that needs to rebuild, and he sould not be part of a re-build. That is my issue with him (actually with management).

 

[Rebels57]

Love to see the blown lead and OTL

 

[VladDrag]

I don't have a yes or no answer.

I think Frost is *supposed* to be the better offensive player.

That doesn't mean he has been.

Overall this season to date, I think MacEwen has been the more effective player in addition to outscoring him.

That’s a big cop out, but then again I really didn’t expect you to answer it plainly.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

After watching Foerster, I think he needs a year in the AHL and a summer working on his skating. He's 20, and he's not some uber-talent being buried, he's a skilled player with mediocre skating skills who needs work. And I wouldn't rush Desnoyers or Wisdom, they're also 20 and have missed some PT the last two seasons, again, don't rush them to appease bored fans.

Laczynski and Lycksell are probably the closest to NHL ready, and you might look at Marody, Brooks is still injured, I think.

Foerster's skating has greatly improved. He's never going to be a burner, so that needs to stop. He's incredibly solid and gets to where he needs to be with no struggle. There are players on the roster that are worse skaters than him, so that doesn't hold water. The guy's a shooter and in 46 AHL games, Foerster has 15 goals. That should be more than enough for a call up.

 

[mr4tno]

Did you learn anything from watching Hayes getting Frost's usual usage?

I see you're doing the thing where you're too afraid to outright say you think a player is better so you'll just heavily insinuate it, like you did with Hagg.

Spot on. Any hockey player not named Crosby, Mathews, McDavid, etc, that gets saddled with 2 anchors is doomed to go down with them

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That’s a big cop out, but then again I really didn’t expect you to answer it plainly.

Who do you think has been the better offensive player so far this season: Frost or MacEwen?

 

[VladDrag]

Who do you think has been the better offensive player so far this season: Frost or MacEwen?

Well that’s not the question I asked you, but in terms of pure production, MacEwen has been better. Even in terms of being involved in chances MacEwen has been better.

But, I believe Frost is a better offensive player, and given the right linemates, such as last night, it’s not really a close comparison, regardless of the 2A’s MacEwen had last night.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I believe Brown was -2 in &+ minutes of playing time

I'm not a MacEwen fan. However, he is "engaging" on the ice, can skate (which is lacking up and down the flyers line-up) and noticeable (+ and -). Any team that has him anywhere except the 4th is a team that needs to rebuild, and he sould not be part of a re-build. That is my issue with him (actually with management).

The dude was waived after camp & you’re acting like management planned all along for him to have a middle-six role.

Do you think having Konecny, Atkinson, Allison, JVR, & Brink all out with injuries might have something to do with MacEwen getting more minutes?

And the fact that he’s played well & has 7 points on n 16 games?

Hell, he’s scoring at an over 35-point pass, which was damn-near considered an outrageous ask from Morgan Frost.

Zack is proving himself to be a good depth find right now & I’m glad they have him.

 

[deadhead]

You're shifting the goalposts.

You scoffed at Caulfield as being "Debrincat II" as if he's a bad player. Which was ridiculous.

No, not a "bad" player, a "limited" player.
One trick pony, a really good trick (Caufield has a great wrist shot) but . . .

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well that’s not the question I asked you, but in terms of pure production, MacEwen has been better. Even in terms of being involved in chances MacEwen has been better.

But, I believe Frost is a better offensive player, and given the right linemates, such as last night, it’s not really a close comparison, regardless of the 2A’s MacEwen had last night.

Then we pretty much agree, except I want Frost to *be* the better offensive player before I declare he *is* the better offensive player.

Shouldn’t be too much to ask.

 

[VladDrag]

Then we pretty much agree, except I want Frost to *be* the better offensive player before I declare he *is* the better offensive player.

Shouldn’t be too much to ask.

I mean, Frost is, has always been, and will always be a better offensive player than MacEwen. And just because Mac had outscored him in a few games, doesn’t automatically change that fact.

And, I think it’s okay to say that and admit that. In fact if one doesn’t admit Frost is a better offensive player than MacEwen, I would say there is something wrong with one’s eye or they have an agenda.

 

[deadhead]

Well that’s not the question I asked you, but in terms of pure production, MacEwen has been better. Even in terms of being involved in chances MacEwen has been better.

But, I believe Frost is a better offensive player, and given the right linemates, such as last night, it’s not really a close comparison, regardless of the 2A’s MacEwen had last night.

Of course Frost is the better offensive player, and MacEwen is playing too high in the lineup, of course, so is Frost. Everyone is.

But MacEwen is showing more than anyone expected, his puck handling has improved, even his shooting is getting closer to average.
IF he keeps this up he may have a role on a 3rd line that's an "energy line," because he does bring energy and a physical presence.

However, check back in April, NAK looked like this for 30 games, then was subpar in 2020-21 and started 2021-22 the same way he start this season in Toronto - putrid. So I want to see MacEwen maintain this pace for the next 60 games. Guys like him have to have consistently high motors, they can't afford to run hot and cold.

Frost's problem is he's a good offensive player, but looks like he's never going to be more than "good," that is, he simply can't translate workouts (elite speed in training tests) to the ice with the puck, nor does he have "it," the elusive quality that great offensive players possess (Giroux), nor the gonzo attack of TK (that Tippett is developing). So they were right to emphasize defensive play b/c he's not good enough offensively to tolerate him being a defensive liability.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Caufield scoring makes me happy.

"kid needs to learn to play the right way..

filling the net doesnt win championships.."

lol....

 

[VladDrag]

Of course Frost is the better offensive player

This is the correct answer. Thank you for proving my point.

IF he keeps this up he may have a role on a 3rd line that's an "energy line," because he does bring energy and a physical presence.

Do don’t think this keeps up long term, but maybe. But right now, I don’t mind him as a 4W with a center like Sedlak or Cates.

Frost's problem is he's a good offensive player, but looks like he's never going to be more than "good," that is, he simply can't translate workouts (elite speed in training tests) to the ice with the puck, nor does he have "it," the elusive quality that great offensive players possess (Giroux), nor the gonzo attack of TK (that Tippett is developing)

Can we just give him like 30 games with consistent offensive linemates before saying this? You might not be wrong, but he was one of the better offensive junior players and has been derailed a bit by injuries since turning pro, not to mention just a terrible development plan for offensive production.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Watched game on PVR , Frost and Tippy were really good. Please don’t break them up.

Hayes is gone , he’s a mess out there.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I mean, Frost is, has always been, and will always be a better offensive player than MacEwen. And just because Mac had outscored him in a few games, doesn’t automatically change that fact.

And, I think it’s okay to say that and admit that. In fact if one doesn’t admit Frost is a better offensive player than MacEwen, I would say there is something wrong with one’s eye or they have an agenda.

I just want to see it.

Mac is on pace for 35+ points.

I mean, I was told by many on here that wanting 40 points from Frost was unreasonable.

I’ve also in my many years watching hockey seen “skill” players who tear up lower levels but can’t outproduce more grinding players in the NHL.

So the better offensive player to me is the one who produces more in the NHL. It should be Frost. I’m just waiting for the translation.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, not a "bad" player, a "limited" player.
One trick pony, a really good trick (Caufield has a great wrist shot) but . . .

First line production is an important trick