Prospect Info: 17-18 Blues Top Prospect #2

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I don't know man, it's really hard to take you seriously. IMO you are really biased with your Kostin love, that you are saying some things about Barbashev that are questionable to say the least.

He's absolutely a good skater. He's not Paajarvi-fast but he's got fine speed. He's nowhere near slow like Berglund.

He was on pace for about 30 points in a full 82-game season as a 21-year old. I am not sure how his offensive game "isn't there." It's coming along just fine. You're just writing him off as saying he doesn't have this, he doesn't have that. This is a little ridiculous. How many 21-year olds are elite defensively? The answer is none. Give him some time to learn.

And I do think you are lashing out at him because other people aren't as high on Kostin as you are. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. You're pumping his tires like crazy when he hasn't proven anything.

Small sample size explains the on-pace point total, and Barb isn't a bad skater. He doesn't have to be elite defensively now - but I think thats his only way of being a good 2C in the future since the rest of his skills are just average, imo. I also don't know how bias plays an effect with Kostin. Do I have something to gain by saying I think he's going to be good even though sub-consciously I don't think that? Or is it that I just talk down Barbashev because it makes me happy to disagree for the sake or looking "in-biased". Am I stating my opinion because I just want people on the internet to agree with me about Kostin but also just want those same people to disagree with me about Barbashev? This seems silly to me.

I don't think Barbashev has a good enough shot, speed, or vision to make him be a good 2C in the future NHL. Klim has those tools. I don't see how that's not consistent. He's just not a dynamic enough player, imo. His play this season had a few flashes of skill, but im not sold on him being able to be that consistently. The rest of his play was a lot of garbage goals and right-place-right-time. At the very least it wasn't like he was a driving force for more than a couple of plays. I just don't see the dynamic skill-set

 

[Majorityof1]

Did a quick perusal of Scouting reports from Barbashev. Most are from before his time with the Blues, because people very rarely post scouting reports for NHL players. But, his speed should not have diminished. He is often praised for his speed, or acceleration. Here are a few:

From hockey writers: "he has explosive quickness and acceleration"
http://thehockeywriters.com/ivan-barbashev-prospect-profile/

From Dobber prospects: "In 2016-2017, Barbashev played 30 games for the St. Louis Blues with five goals and seven assists. In 46 superb games for the Chicago Wolves, he scored 19 goals and 18 assists. Barbashev showed at the NHL level a rare combination of speed, skill, hockey sense, a scorer’s hands, and a mean streak"
http://www.dobberprospects.com/ivan-barbashev-2/

Dallas Scout per The Score: "If you didn't look at the name on the back of his sweater you would swear he was a North American player. He's physical, has a good level of skill, has some pop in his stride. He's a 200-foot player."
https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/512797

Bleacher report: "Barbashev is a great passer and playmaker who would thrive in a fast-paced offense."
Barbashev is a great passer and playmaker who would thrive in a fast-paced offense.

Still sticking with he is slow?

 

[Evocable Manager]

So because he scored some garbage goals he doesn't have enough skill?

Well **** then I guess we had a bottom six player as our captain for 5 years.

Barbashev is quite talented. He has nice hands, a rather decent shot and a nose for getting in the dirty areas. He did show the ability to read plays well and support them. He showed an ability to also drive the play. And he's pretty darn fast.

It's not about how you score, it's about how much. And about how much you prevent. If Barbashev can score 45-50 points (maybe even 55) as well as be solid defensively, play on the PP, play on the PK, which he has shown the ability to do, then I don't see how he classify as a 2C.

He was given a chance to play with Tarasenko for a reason. If he can play with Vladdy, he will our defacto #1C. And he did pretty well with Tarasenko.

 

[KirkOut]

I think Barbashev can be a solid middle 6 center in the NHL. He's got the tools for sure.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I think I and I alone am this "hype train". It's just my opinion, man. It's fun to make these prediction after reading/watching so much. He's not the forward version of Parayko, but I remember being on the hype train for him very early on. I think as Blues fans in general we are slightly too cautious with tempering our enthusiasm over a player. I try to be objective, and objectively I see that Kostin could be in the NHL as early as this year - and I would be shocked if he wasn't next year.

What do you base that on? Did you get to watch any of his 8 KHL games? Or his 9 Russian minor league games or 1 Russian Jr game he played? Or are you basing it off of some YouTube clips and/or some drills he did out at the Mills last week? Our scouting director, who's super high on the guy, says he's not close to the NHL and will need a good amount of AHL time. So I'm curious what has led you to be so much more optimistic about Kostin's arrival to the NHL than the Blues scouting director.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Clips of highlights, shifts, and reading about him from Russian posters and other Russian media. I actually didn't watch him in St. Louis. I mentioned somewhere around here that I don't expect my opinion to merit popularity, and I think it's a combination of many factors that have nothing to do with Kostin himself that make me think he could be an option later in the year.

Also to clarify: I am more confident that he will be a liter in the season addition, not necessarily the beginning

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Did a quick perusal of Scouting reports from Barbashev. Most are from before his time with the Blues, because people very rarely post scouting reports for NHL players. But, his speed should not have diminished. He is often praised for his speed, or acceleration. Here are a few:

From hockey writers: "he has explosive quickness and acceleration"
http://thehockeywriters.com/ivan-barbashev-prospect-profile/

From Dobber prospects: "In 2016-2017, Barbashev played 30 games for the St. Louis Blues with five goals and seven assists. In 46 superb games for the Chicago Wolves, he scored 19 goals and 18 assists. Barbashev showed at the NHL level a rare combination of speed, skill, hockey sense, a scorer’s hands, and a mean streak"
http://www.dobberprospects.com/ivan-barbashev-2/

Dallas Scout per The Score: "If you didn't look at the name on the back of his sweater you would swear he was a North American player. He's physical, has a good level of skill, has some pop in his stride. He's a 200-foot player."
https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/512797

Bleacher report: "Barbashev is a great passer and playmaker who would thrive in a fast-paced offense."
Barbashev is a great passer and playmaker who would thrive in a fast-paced offense.

Still sticking with he is slow?

I've read some of those reports. I watched him in the NHL this year, and watched a little in the AHL - I didn't come away thinking he was slow - but I didn't come away thinking he was quick either. I see his shot as average, and I don't see evidence of strong vision. He's not a bad player, and he's definitely not a bottom sixer. I view him as being capable of a good 3C- but a middle-6 tweener I see as his perhaps conservative ceiling.

Scouting reports hype lots of players, and for a second round pick he was under-drafted. I was excited in acquiring him and am glad that he can be our future 3C full-time if needed right now. I just don't see him reaching good 2C level as the game continues to get faster. Yes the game has sped up a lot in the past 4 years - and it's only going to get faster as we saw with the emergence of lots of young, fast stars around the league last year. Not to mention that on the Blues post-Hitch the scheme seems to value speed more than two-way 200-ft play. Barb is more suited to the latter style of game. I don't think he has the dynamic skill to make him a consistent offensive threat. Just imo.

Garbage goals aren't a knock on him - just that I haven't seen evidence of a skill-level that says to me that he can be more than a tweener unless he not only improves as he matures, but also develops a better shot, vision, etc. I don't think he will develop enough in those areas to make him a good 2C. 12 points in 30 games playing with Tarasenko isn't exactly impressive. He did well, but I don't think last season points to him being better than predicted - he still looks like a tweener to me that has all-around-average to above average tools.

 

[rumrokh]

Barbashev is a lot like Bergeron or O'Reilly in that you aren't wowed by their dynamicism, but they're smart players who arrive at the right spot on the ice at the right time. And even though they don't have elite stickhandling or shots, their hand-eye and puck placement is terrific.

I clearly remember Barbashev's assist on a Lehtera goal: a pristine pass that hit Lehtera's wheelhouse perfectly, avoided the defender, and he also held it a beat and then released it crisply with great timing to keep the goalie honest. That's just one example that paid off, but I don't think that was some rare exception with regard to ability.
I saw a lot more than middling hockey sense, hand-eye, and puck placement from Barbashev. In the AHL, he feasted around the net. Many deflections and rebounds because of his positioning and hand-eye.

Thirty games is not a great sample size, but he often lined up with guys like Yakupov and still scored at a similar pace to a bunch of high skill young forwards: Dvorak, Strome, Schmaltz, Konecny, Jenner, Larkin, Zacha.

I'm not saying he's a lock as a top-6 fixture or anything like that, but if Barbashev turns out to be a career 3rd liner, that will mean he's basically hit his offensive peak already, give or take. Sure, that happens, but I see a player who has more potential and whose developmental curve so far is more encouraging than that.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Barbashev is a lot like Bergeron or O'Reilly in that you aren't wowed by their dynamicism, but they're smart players who arrive at the right spot on the ice at the right time. And even though they don't have elite stickhandling or shots, their hand-eye and puck placement is terrific.

I clearly remember Barbashev's assist on a Lehtera goal: a pristine pass that hit Lehtera's wheelhouse perfectly, avoided the defender, and he also held it a beat and then released it crisply with great timing to keep the goalie honest. That's just one example that paid off, but I don't think that was some rare exception with regard to ability.
I saw a lot more than middling hockey sense, hand-eye, and puck placement from Barbashev. In the AHL, he feasted around the net. Many deflections and rebounds because of his positioning and hand-eye.

Thirty games is not a great sample size, but he often lined up with guys like Yakupov and still scored at a similar pace to a bunch of high skill young forwards: Dvorak, Strome, Schmaltz, Konecny, Jenner, Larkin, Zacha.

I'm not saying he's a lock as a top-6 fixture or anything like that, but if Barbashev turns out to be a career 3rd liner, that will mean he's basically hit his offensive peak already, give or take. Sure, that happens, but I see a player who has more potential and whose developmental curve so far is more encouraging than that.

I hope you're right. I like the comparisson to O'Reilly and Bergeron (obviously in playstyle, not ceiling). We'll have to see if his defensive game can get to that level, and I'll be watching for puck placement a lot more in the coming season. O'Reilly to me gets very physical as well as having a very good defensive game with an an underrated great shot. Bergeron is Bergeron. If Barbashev ends up playing close to a full 80 games this year at either 3 or 2C, I think we'll get a much better picture moving forward.

 

[Plagers4Ever]

Did we all forget about Husso? I know some people are philosophically opposed to voting for goalies, but he is getting ZERO mentions even. He tied for top prospect last year, and had a pretty good season in the AHL, albeit a bit rocky. Did his occasional poor games scare people off? Did other players pass him? I'd be willing to bet Jake's emergence this year has cooled some of the fervor over Husso, since we now have what seems to be a young goaltender capable of consistently good play and are not needing Husso to emerge as badly. Regardless, I think Husso has the potential to be a game-changing goalie and gets my vote here.

Barbashev is a very close 2nd, but again, I only see him as a 2C max, so his ceiling holds him back a bit. Walman is a little bit back from there at 3rd, and admittedly because I have not seen much of him outside of a few clips of college games and some AHL highlights.

I concur with your comments on Husso and voted for him as well.

 

[phxblue]

So because he scored some garbage goals he doesn't have enough skill?

Well **** then I guess we had a bottom six player as our captain for 5 years.

Barbashev is quite talented. He has nice hands, a rather decent shot and a nose for getting in the dirty areas. He did show the ability to read plays well and support them. He showed an ability to also drive the play. And he's pretty darn fast.

It's not about how you score, it's about how much. And about how much you prevent. If Barbashev can score 45-50 points (maybe even 55) as well as be solid defensively, play on the PP, play on the PK, which he has shown the ability to do, then I don't see how he classify as a 2C.

He was given a chance to play with Tarasenko for a reason. If he can play with Vladdy, he will our defacto #1C. And he did pretty well with Tarasenko.

He was the sparkplug for our late season resurgence last season IIRC.

I thought Yeo made a mistake with him in the playoffs by not playing him at all (after promoting him to the first line).

 

[Oberyn]

He was the sparkplug for our late season resurgence last season IIRC.

I thought Yeo made a mistake with him in the playoffs by not playing him at all (after promoting him to the first line).

Not really, Barbashev wasn't very effective at all in the playoffs. That's not a slight on him as he was a rookie with only 30 NHL games under his belt, but going with a more experienced lineup was the right call by Yeo.

 

[Edgar Carrow]

It's basically a 3-way tie for the top prospect for me between Dunn, Barbashev, and Walman.

After that it's Schmaltz, Kyrou > Kostin, Husso, Thompson > Thomas.

I'm not the biggest fan of Schmaltz and Barbashev, but they did play in the NHL last year so they've got that going for them.

 

[542365]

I'm going to call this one for Ivan Barbashev. New thread will be up momentarily. Should be a quick one if the results of this poll are any indication.