Post-Game Talk: 11/20/19 | #19 capitals @ RANGERS

[Lion Hound]

Big props to Lemieux last night. Kids got balls!

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE OF THE STORM.

GOOD JOB.

THE ENEMY FROM D.C. IS FOUL AND WICKED YET YOU HAVE PREVAILED IN REGULATION AND THAT WARMS MY HEART.

 

[Kovalev27]

As much as everyone is *****ing about Milbury mentioning the posts, this game was quite similar to some loses we've had. Hank was beat too easily on fairly routine shots because he was way too deep/didn't recognize the release and was down on his knees instead of staying more upright and attacking the rising shots. They didn't go in last night which is great, but let's not make believe Hank played the shots perfectly and there was no room except for the post. Sure we won 4-1 but Hank didn't look all that sharp to my eyes in his reads.

That move by Buch was super sweet, though I'm pretty sure the Caps had checked out already in the D zone losing 3-1 late in the 3rd.

hank was very lucky and again it was shots he probably should have stopped from the outside more than anything

 

[romba]

I’m not a huge fan. I hate the brink-of-tears look all the time. But I’m just gonna shut up. He is showing much more god than bad over the past 80ish games.

That's his 'winded' look. Did you feel the same way about McD anytime he took a big hit?

 

[romba]

Didn't hear a moment of disdain and I think Doc is great.

Always get a kick out of fan paranoia. Everyone is against us is the phrase uttered by some fans of every franchise in every sport. Odd, isn't it?

I agree with you regarding the bias, but Doc is sooo slow nowadays. He doesn't bother with names for the most part anymore and if he does the name its about 4-5 seconds after the play as he's 'wrapping up' his dissertation of the Dmen passing the puck back and forth to each other. Every quick shot and save is 'would not go' because he's unsure if the goalie made a save, it was blocked, or went wide. He's become pretty awkward honestly.

 

[Kovalev27]

Resting Buch Face is perfect really should be on a T Shirt lol

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I think the change happened before the cancer stuff. He hasn't been like that in a few years.

Agreed. That was only very early on, IMO.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Resting Buch Face is perfect really should be on a T Shirt lol

If it ever is, I want my royalties, dammit.

 

[True Blue]

I'm not giving him too little credit. I think that he'll continue to carve out the role he is now. A really good 4th liner that can be decent/good on the 3rd line. A forward that is playing on PP2 now but when the team acquires more wingers, will probably be off.

First he is going to be a third line player. Now he is a good 4th lien player. At what point are you going to say that he is an excellent water boy?

If my belief is that he is more than a decent third line player that you are pigeonholing him to be, then you are exactly giving him too little credit in my eye. Feel free to feel like me saying that he is going to be a good middle 6 player is giving him too much credit. Time will tell which of us is right.

Looking at how Gorton has traded and who he has targeted, I highly doubt he targeted the player you describe.

He's on pace for 31 points, if he hits that, I'd be ecstatic.

Umm...if he hits 31 points, then he is certianly much more than a really good 4th liner, no?

He has been playing on the third line with Howden as his center. Yes, Kakko has been playing there for a stretch, he is not yet ready to make players around him better. By virtue of that alone, the fact that he is on pace for 31 points is more than solid. No idea of why you are choosing not to include those facts as a part of your calculus. He is a kid. His game will grow. Why the presumption that this is all he is?

I'm not sure how that's giving him too little credit.

Think that I have explained that in multiple posts.

Again I will say, if anyone expects him to be some 40+ point player that plays on the second line and consistently getting power play time, they'll be disappointed.

You have just described exactly the player that I see him to be. And see it as realistic. But just like it will take time for all of the prospects to eventually become the players they will become, so too for Lemieux. And oh yes, he is one of the Rangers prospects.

On a good team, he should be in the role he is now (which oddly enough is how Winnipeg was using him)

Winnipeg was not inserting a rookie into a pretty stacked top 9? Wow. How utterly odd.

Let's turn this now from the Rangers perspective. Gorton made him the centerpiece for a deal that involved his second line center. Oddly, he seems to regard him much higher than you do.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Love how our rebuild is coming along great and the Devils are faltering. Can't believe people though the Devils had the better offseason. We did. And we're about to get Zibby back. Get Kravstov,Shesty and K'Andre Miller here by next year. Add a top 10 pick to that as well. Love what Gorton has done.

And even know Trouba isn't producing points wise, he leads the team in hits and blocked shots, the former of which can result in ranger possession and the latter of which denies goals.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Ya I feel that they will maybe do something with pairs of players who compliment each other like this as it spreads out the scoring in 3 lines. It actually looks pretty potent if the psf line keeps playing like they are. I've never thought of Fast as a top 6 but his ability to retrieve pucks and play a north south game seems to be a good compliment so if it ain't broken dont fix it.

Panarin Strome Fast
Kreider Zibanajad Kakko
Lemieux Chytil Buch
Gettinger Howden Smith

I prefer

Panarin Zibby Kakko
Kreider Chytil Buch
Lemieux Strome Fast
Gettinger Howden Smith

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If my belief is that he is more than a decent third line player that you are pigeonholing him to be, then you are exactly giving him too little credit in my eye. Feel free to feel like me saying that he is going to be a good middle 6 player is giving him too much credit. Time will tell which of us is right.

Looking at how Gorton has traded and who he has targeted, I highly doubt he targeted the player you describe.

Umm...if he hits 31 points, then he is certianly much more than a really good 4th liner, no?

Let's turn this now from the Rangers perspective. Gorton made him the centerpiece for a deal that involved his second line center. Oddly, he seems to regard him much higher than you do.

I think he's a bottom 6 player, I'm not sure how else you'd like me to describe him. He's a really good 4th liner that can also be good on the 3rd line, which is the definition of a bottom 6 player. I've been saying this in multiple posts lol

Yes he's on pace for 31 points, but I didn't say I personally think he hits 31 points. I see him topping out somewhere around 20-22, which puts him as a bottom 6 player points wise. And his advanced metrics point to this being the case as well.

I also think it's incredibly disingenuous to say he was the centerpiece of the Hayes trade, when he really wasn't. The 1st round pick was obviously the centerpiece of that deal. And it was reported the Rangers were asking for Roslovic or Niku and got rebuffed. And then they landed on Lemiuex

Let's not make him out to be more than he was at the time. If the Rangers somehow did manage to convince Winnipeg to give up Roslovic or Niku for Hayes, the draft pick absolutely would not have been a 1st. Which means one of them would have been the centerpiece of that deal.

I don't have an issue with anyone believing Lemiuex can become more than he is, but I'm not one of them.

 

[Squarp]

I prefer

Panarin Zibby Kakko
Kreider Chytil Buch
Lemieux Strome Fast
Gettinger Howden Smith

The lines as they are right now are working, so why mess with them? Just stick Zib in where Howden is and have Howden center the 4th line.

 

[rangersfansince08]

The lines as they are right now are working, so why mess with them? Just stick Zib in where Howden is and have Howden center the 4th line.

I want Kakko on the first line and get some chemistry developing between them. This season isn't about winning games but building chemistry for the future.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

We have one of the best records in the league since Zibanajad went out so if that's paying for it I'll take it. Zib is our 1c, he can take the hard matchups. I don't know why a lot of people dont like Strome, he has done a fantastic job since he got here, 19pts in 19 games this year, I guess he will have to win the Hart to get any love around here. Our record is 6-3-1 in the last 10 games and had the flu mixed in there for a shellacking loss to Tampa.

i think it’s just the vocal minority who hate Strome - those who have to always have someone to pick on. Staal last seasons, Stepan before that, Redden before that, Malik before that etc...

I really don’t see someone to hate on with this team

 

[Squarp]

I want Kakko on the first line and get some chemistry developing between them. This season isn't about winning games but building chemistry for the future.

Kakko hasn't shown the ability to handle defensive responsibilities yet to warrant playing on the first line. Also keeping the lines as is spreads out the scoring evenly throughout the lineup.

 

[True Blue]

I think he's a bottom 6 player, I'm not sure how else you'd like me to describe him. He's a really good 4th liner that can also be good on the 3rd line, which is the definition of a bottom 6 player. I've been saying this in multiple posts lol

So then you understand why I believe you are giving him too little credit? Clearly we are not proving anything to each other on this.

Yes he's on pace for 31 points, but I didn't say I personally think he hits 31 points. I see him topping out somewhere around 20-22, which puts him as a bottom 6 player points wise. And his advanced metrics point to this being the case as well.

Subtract the time he played on the 4th line, give him someone better as a center in Howden, and you would have more points. Again, not sure we are proving anything to each other.

I also think it's incredibly disingenuous to say he was the centerpiece of the Hayes trade, when he really wasn't. The 1st round pick was obviously the centerpiece of that deal. And it was reported the Rangers were asking for Roslovic or Niku and got rebuffed. And then they landed on Lemiuex

Clearly he was, since he was the player that Gorton targeted and got. Most trade negotiations are settled in such ways. Start off unreasonably high, and eventually settle on who you want. So, yeah. He was targeted and obtained.

et's not make him out to be more than he was at the time.

Let's not make him out to be much less than he was at the time.

L If the Rangers somehow did manage to convince Winnipeg to give up Roslovic or Niku for Hayes, the draft pick absolutely would not have been a 1st. Which means one of them would have been the centerpiece of that deal.

Conjecture.

I don't have an issue with anyone believing Lemiuex can become more than he is, but I'm not one of them.

Nor am I asking you to be. Like I said, I think that we have safely arrived at the point that we no longer are convincing each other of anything.

 

[True Blue]

I want Kakko on the first line and get some chemistry developing between them. This season isn't about winning games but building chemistry for the future.

So then trust management to put Kakko into a position to succeed when they feel that he is ready for such a role.

 

[Ola]

My view of Pavel is quickly changing to the positive

My feeling when I am watching Buch right now is like, he is playing at a level were it would make all the sense in the world to gather some clips of him and show it to a young kid. Look have Pavel does in this or that situation, model that. I remember how they did that with Kreider, showing him footage of how Hagelin moved on the forecheck.

And to be honest, I don't think his play right now is unexpected. Buch has steadily been improving, no reason to expect it to stop all of a sudden. Still has some growth potential for sure.

 

[cheech70]

My feeling when I am watching Buch right now is like, he is playing at a level were it would make all the sense in the world to gather some clips of him and show it to a young kid. Look have Pavel does in this or that situation, model that. I remember how they did that with Kreider, showing him footage of how Hagelin moved on the forecheck.

And to be honest, I don't think his play right now is unexpected. Buch has steadily been improving, no reason to expect it to stop all of a sudden. Still has some growth potential for sure.

To me he looks engaged and a bit pissed off. There was a time earlier in the game on the forecheck he busted thru 2 guys with force and determination and I was like wow. Filip is going full force puck pursuit in all areas of the ice and his play is ascending. If Pavel continues with this type of tenacity only good things will follow. I am becoming a Pavel believer.

 

[rangersfansince08]

My feeling when I am watching Buch right now is like, he is playing at a level were it would make all the sense in the world to gather some clips of him and show it to a young kid. Look have Pavel does in this or that situation, model that. I remember how they did that with Kreider, showing him footage of how Hagelin moved on the forecheck.

And to be honest, I don't think his play right now is unexpected. Buch has steadily been improving, no reason to expect it to stop all of a sudden. Still has some growth potential for sure.

I think Chytil and Buch will be a lethal pair on the second line. Both will get better. But even if Buch doesn't get better he is on a 70+ pt pace which would be great.

 

[Leonardo87]

Ya I feel that they will maybe do something with pairs of players who compliment each other like this as it spreads out the scoring in 3 lines. It actually looks pretty potent if the psf line keeps playing like they are. I've never thought of Fast as a top 6 but his ability to retrieve pucks and play a north south game seems to be a good compliment so if it ain't broken dont fix it.

Panarin Strome Fast
Kreider Zibanajad Kakko
Lemieux Chytil Buch
Gettinger Howden Smith

I would swap Kakko and Buch. KZB has had proven success in the past, and Lemieux and Kakko have looked good together, and will be getting a center upgrade with Chytil. Think of line 2 and 3, as really two 2nd lines. So really isn’t a bad thing for Kakko.

Of course things will change but I’m looking at the first game Mika is back.

 

[Rongomania]

After what we saw last night, Kakko should undoubtedly be stapled to Bread. You have to try that.

 

[Kovalev27]

This is the guy the Rangers hoped Buch would be when he came over. It’s taken him some time to figure it out but when you go back even to last season. He played a lot of games like he’s playing now. Before he got hurt he was heating up and later in the year when he returned he really turned it on as well.

he’s a bit of a slow starter but his last 10 12 games have been really good. He’s got a very good shot at being a 65 plus point player this year if he stays healthy.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Subtract the time he played on the 4th line, give him someone better as a center in Howden, and you would have more points. Again, not sure we are proving anything to each other.

Clearly he was, since he was the player that Gorton targeted and got. Most trade negotiations are settled in such ways. Start off unreasonably high, and eventually settle on who you want. So, yeah. He was targeted and obtained.

Conjecture.

I mean you could say the bolded about literally any player, so that's not a good argument. I could have Haley playing with Zibanejad and Panarin and his points would go up.

I can admit he was a player Gorton targeted, but I'm not sure how anyone can look at this and say he was the centerpiece. This is like saying Lindgren was the centerpiece of the Nash trade because he's playing well now. When the 1st was clearly the most important thing.

And it's not conjecture at all, you have pointed out multiple times about what happens during "trade negotiations" but literally anyone could come to the conclusion I wrote in my post. Ask anyone that is close to the process of these trades like Edge or BBKers and they'll tell you the same thing I just said.

But you're right