Post-Game Talk: 11/20/19 | #19 capitals @ RANGERS

[wafflepadsave]

We just beat the best team in the league.

Yeah but they were flat and didn’t care. They might have been playing at 50%.
On the plus side, liked a lot of the guys play. I believe they just keep getting better (growing together).

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

For me they’re becoming quite similar to me. Both players have “keeper” upside but both hibernate for stretches. Which is probably a deal-breaker for me. Though they’re both legit NHL top sixers.

In years past, maybe, but to be fair to Buch, not so far this season. And he’s only 24, so he may be blossoming. Kreider, on the other hand, yes.

 

[egelband]

In years past, maybe, but to be fair to Buch, not so far this season. And he’s only 24, so he may be blossoming. Kreider, on the other hand, yes.

I’m certainly not writing off Buchnevich. Just saying I’m not there yet for a long-term-big-money commitment. Gun to my head, I’m probably trading both of them. But I can see both sides.

 

[True Blue]

Point per game over the past 8 + what we saw those two do last night screams: "Staple Kakko to Bread and see what happens." On the PP or not, you have to see if they can find success 5v5 as well.

Finding him on the PP is not the same thing as finding him at full strength.

Stating that he is point per game over the last 8 is certainly accurate, but does not tell the whole tale. 5 of the 8 points have been on the power play. One of the goals came on a 3 on 3 in OT. That leaves 3 ES points in 8 games. Sure, all of the goals and assists count. But I would expect a bit more production at ES before pounding the chest and wanting to staple him to the top line. Like I said, largely this managment gives the kids bigger roles when the a) earn it & b) show that they are ready for it. Just my view, but that is not where Kakko is at.

Don't see it hurting the kids development.

Development is a long term thing. Playing him on the top line is not going to hurt or help his development, looking at it big picture wise. What it can do is hurt his confidence if he is not ready for it, just as his confidence is growing. I have no doubt that he will get there, but also do not see what he has done so far to demand that spot. Heck, Buchnevich has done more to deserve it than Kakko has.

Not the largest sample size but the kid has only been trending upward.

Trending upwards in some aspects, but not all. And until he has improvement in the others, I doubt management is going to do as you suggest. But what do I know? I am just a speculating fan.

 

[True Blue]

Yeah, but who'd really want to trade Buchnevich to keep Strome? Feels like Buchnevich might actually be the more valuable piece.

Who? Maybe the Rangers if the feel that this is who Strome really is. Again, he is not an 80 point player. But a 20 goal, 50 point guy? Looks like he is showing it. And really, is Buch's production going to be materially better than that? Hopefully, but I tend to doubt it. And there is the issue of what if Strome is really a 60 point guy? Like, like we have said. Need to see how it all plays out and what the situation looks like several months from now.

Ultimately, yeah, just have to see how it plays out. And if someone were to blow me away with an offer for Strome, I think I'd have to do it, because of the pending cap issues.

Not moving him for Rykov and a 2nd, but if someone gives me a Nash or McDonagh-like return, well, I'm listening.

Oh, of course. Without a doubt. If someone comes knocking now with that type of an offer, yeah, there is no need to wait. Make the move. But I feel like the contenders will let things evolve for another few months and assess what their needs are as they get closer to the deadline.

 

[Rongomania]

Finding him on the PP is not the same thing as finding him at full strength.

Stating that he is point per game over the last 8 is certainly accurate, but does not tell the whole tale. 5 of the 8 points have been on the power play. One of the goals came on a 3 on 3 in OT. That leaves 3 ES points in 8 games. Sure, all of the goals and assists count. But I would expect a bit more production at ES before pounding the chest and wanting to staple him to the top line. Like I said, largely this managment gives the kids bigger roles when the a) earn it & b) show that they are ready for it. Just my view, but that is not where Kakko is at.

Development is a long term thing. Playing him on the top line is not going to hurt or help his development, looking at it big picture wise. What it can do is hurt his confidence if he is not ready for it, just as his confidence is growing. I have no doubt that he will get there, but also do not see what he has done so far to demand that spot. Heck, Buchnevich has done more to deserve it than Kakko has.

Trending upwards in some aspects, but not all. And until he has improvement in the others, I doubt management is going to do as you suggest. But what do I know? I am just a speculating fan.

This isn't really all about the 'top line'. Bread and Ziba should be split up, therefore inserting Kakko with bread on the second line. I don't see any harm in trying that. While Kakkos points have come predominately on the PP, he is still 18 and that is still very impressive & promising. Again, just want to see what those two could potentially achieved together. While Kakko is still raw, he's shown he can do damage and is showing more confidence with each game he plays.

 

[True Blue]

This isn't really all about the 'top line'. Bread and Ziba should be split up, therefore inserting Kakko with bread on the second line.

Panarin is playing on the first line. We can debate all else, but there is absolutely no debating that. His line plays against the opposing top defensemen. His line is top line.

I don't see any harm in trying that. While Kakkos points have come predominately on the PP, he is still 18 and that is still very impressive & promising.

What has he done at ES to show that he can handle playing on the top line and going against the opposition's top defensive pairings?

Again, just want to see what those two could potentially achieved together. While Kakko is still raw, he's shown he can do damage and is showing more confidence with each game he plays.

What's the rush? It sets an awful precedence to simply hand a top line spot to him. Let his play demand that he gets it.

 

[Rongomania]

Panarin is playing on the first line. We can debate all else, but there is absolutely no debating that. His line plays against the opposing top defensemen. His line is top line.

What has he done at ES to show that he can handle playing on the top line and going against the opposition's top defensive pairings?

What's the rush? It sets an awful precedence to simply hand a top line spot to him. Let his play demand that he gets it.

When Ziba comes back he won't play 2nd C. So, I was implying that bread will be on line 2 with Kakko being tried (key word here) with him. I'm just curious, not saying Quinn is going to or has to do this. I really just don't see the harm. Kakko is also getting better 5v5 with each game, you have to have seen that.

Also Kakko playing 5v5 with Brett Howden constantly can also be indicative as to why he isn't setting the world on fire on that line. Another reason why him playing with bread it's not rushing him, just putting him in a better position to succeed more 5v5.

I think the Kreider situation may also usher in a move up for him 5v5 *in the future.

 

[True Blue]

When Ziba comes back he won't play 2nd C. So, I was implying that bread will be on line 2 with Kakko being tried with him (key word here). I'm just curious, not saying Quinn is or has to do this.

I would have thought so as well but according to Quinn, that is exactly where ZBad is going. If he is honest about not moving Strome, then ZBad becomes the 2C, between Kreider and Buch. The former is your top line. The latter is not. Odd, but that is the level of play right now. Sure, Fast is miscast on it. But the Panarin line is the top line that will draw the top D pairings.

I really just don't see the harm. Kakko is also getting better 5v5 with each game, you have to have seen that.

The harm is that his confidence takes a hit after starting to grow when playing on the 3rd line with Lemieux and being kept away from the top defensive pairings. Is he getting better? Sure. But enough to warrant such a promotion. Again, can you really present an argument that his play dictates it over Buchnevich?

Also Kakko playing 5v5 with Brett Howden constantly can also be indicative why he isn't setting the world on fire on that line. Another reason why him playing with bread it's not rushing him, just putting him in a better position to succeed more 5v5.

Pretty soon, he will have a chance to do it with Chytil. So if he sets the world on fire then, we can discuss it. Believe me, I want nothing more than for someone to replace Fast on the top line.

I think the Kreider situation may also usher in a move up for him 5v5 *in the future.

Kreider is playing LW. And that situation is probably not getting resolved for another 2-3 months.

 

[Rongomania]

I would have thought so as well but according to Quinn, that is exactly where ZBad is going. If he is honest about not moving Strome, then ZBad becomes the 2C, between Kreider and Buch. The former is your top line. The latter is not. Odd, but that is the level of play right now. Sure, Fast is miscast on it. But the Panarin line is the top line that will draw the top D pairings.

The harm is that his confidence takes a hit after starting to grow when playing on the 3rd line with Lemieux and being kept away from the top defensive pairings. Is he getting better? Sure. But enough to warrant such a promotion. Again, can you really present an argument that his play dictates it over Buchnevich?

Pretty soon, he will have a chance to do it with Chytil. So if he sets the world on fire then, we can discuss it. Believe me, I want nothing more than for someone to replace Fast on the top line.

Kreider is playing LW. And that situation is probably not getting resolved for another 2-3 months.

Yeah, a lot of variables up and down the roster here. It's entertaining; The now and the thought of what will be. Though I think Buch, staying where he is now is not hurting him and I would imagine he'll be back with Zbad when he comes back as well which hopefully even increases the production we've seen from him so far.

 

[True Blue]

Though I think Buch, staying where he is now is not hurting him and I would imagine he'll be back with Zbad when he comes back as well which hopefully even increases the production we've seen from him so far.

And that is not unwarranted as the line of Kreider-ZBad-Buch was pretty darn good last year.

 

[Rongomania]

And that is not unwarranted as the line of Kreider-ZBad-Buch was pretty darn good last year.

Absolutely was our best line. Though, since Kreids is more than likely a goner, it would be nice to see who else would fit on that line (someone that's not bread).

Also works because clearly Chytil and Kreids work well together and that'd be a damn good third line.

 

[True Blue]

Absolutely was our best line. Though, since Kreids is more than likely a goner, it would be nice to see who else would fit on that line (someone that's not bread).

Also works because clearly Chytil and Kreids work well together and that'd be a damn good third line.

Kreider is probably a goner, but that script has yet to be written. Who steps up to play 2nd line LW after he is gone? Let's first get there. Could be Strome shifting there. Could be Lemieux (if he takes steps forward) going up. Too many variables and dominoes that need to fall.

I will say that I do not see Kreider on the 3rd line. If nothing else, NO ONE is pushing him on LW and if he is going to be traded, they will try to maximize value.

If I had to guess on what the lineup will look like when ZBad is back and factor in what Quinn said, it would be this:

Panarin-Strome-Fast
Kreider-ZBad-Buchnevich
Lemieux-Chytil-Kakko
McKegg-Howden-Smith

As long as Panrin and Strome are producing, Quinn has not much impetus to move Fast off the line. Until Kakko pushes the issue, those make sense to me.

 

[Rongomania]

Kreider is probably a goner, but that script has yet to be written. Who steps up to play 2nd line LW after he is gone? Let's first get there. Could be Strome shifting there. Could be Lemieux (if he takes steps forward) going up. Too many variables and dominoes that need to fall.

I will say that I do not see Kreider on the 3rd line. If nothing else, NO ONE is pushing him on LW and if he is going to be traded, they will try to maximize value.

If I had to guess on what the lineup will look like when ZBad is back and factor in what Quinn said, it would be this:

Panarin-Strome-Fast
Kreider-ZBad-Buchnevich
Lemieux-Chytil-Kakko
McKegg-Howden-Smith

As long as Panrin and Strome are producing, Quinn has not much impetus to move Fast off the line. Until Kakko pushes the issue, those make sense to me.

Yeah that's likely what we're looking at until some more progression is made. Though I feel the kids are moving fast, which is great to see and I think we see more than one player dealt, one more time at/around the deadline.

Also hoping the Chytil/Kakko thing becomes a real thing.

 

[NYRangers16]

Once Zbad is back I’d love to see

Panarin-Zbad-Strome
Buch-Chytil-Kakko
Kreider-Howden(or Anderson)-Fast
Lemy-McKegg-Smith

With Lemy moving up once Kreider is traded.

 

[ohbaby]

Yeah but they were flat and didn’t care. They might have been playing at 50%.
On the plus side, liked a lot of the guys play. I believe they just keep getting better (growing together).

I looked closely at this game again, to see if the Caps played poorly. You maybe right that they were flat, but they didn't play a poor game. I think because we played exceptionally well, managing the puck, there wasn't much they could generate. Lets hope we don't let up vs Ott tonight. I feel the flu bug running through our team, ruined our Florida trip, and that we were full of energy vs the Caps. We only need to sustain it going forward.

 

[chosen]

I agree with you regarding the bias, but Doc is sooo slow nowadays. He doesn't bother with names for the most part anymore and if he does the name its about 4-5 seconds after the play as he's 'wrapping up' his dissertation of the Dmen passing the puck back and forth to each other. Every quick shot and save is 'would not go' because he's unsure if the goalie made a save, it was blocked, or went wide. He's become pretty awkward honestly.

He's light years better than Rosen, and I'm fine with Rosen remaining.