GDT: #10: FLYERS at Bruins, Thursday, Oct. 25, 2018, 7:00 p.m. ET

[Beef Invictus]

Tippett would be another scary choice. A very stubborn defense-first, boring ass coach who hates young players. Again, a sign Hextall just doesn't get it. Repeating evaluative mistakes.

I'm in agreement with Torts. But it was such a radical turnabout. That assumed expectation can't be placed on another re-tread. He's a trend bucker, an anomaly. Whoever they choose as the next coach will be another years long endeavor. There's no punting this hire. But the same GM who hired Jujube Hogwash as the previous hire might indeed find these coaches attractive. I'm somewhat skeptical it's another inexperienced risky higher (despite the reward factor).

Torts is weird because he has reinvented himself a couple times now. I wanted no part of his past phase.

 

[flyersfan187]

I wanted nothing to do with Torts at the time and I was wrong.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Torts got humbled in Vancouver after he tried doing the same stuff there that he did in New York. If he didn’t adapt it was going to be another short tenure in Columbus & very likely his last gig in the NHL. He was pretty fortunate to even get another chance after Vancouver as most guys would have been done.

Vigneault didn’t leave New York on those terms. It was more of a team was starting over & things ran their course type of firing. So I seriously doubt the guy did any self reflecting.

Guys like Sutter & Tippett are very likely too old at this point to change their ways too. The two of them have been removed for a while now that they might not even have interest in coming back anyway.

 

[deadhead]

Wait, let me get this straight:

1)We can't judge this coach because the players are not good enough
2)If we dump this coach, we have to dump a bunch of players too, again, because the players are not good enough

If it never mattered how good the coach is, why the hell did we keep these terrible players for so many years and not trade them all? And if coaches have virtually no impact on the roster (you seem to think a new coach won't be able to change anything?), why are you so adamant we keep this awful coach? If they can't change anything, who cares, bring in the next scrub coach, not like they can have any impact on the roster.

Never said those players were terrible, said a year ago this is the team of misfit toys.
If you put TK on the first line, Voracek and Simmonds just don't fit.
If Weal is at center, he only works with Lindblom and TK.
Vorobyev isn't ready to center JVR and Simmonds (look ma, no defense, no puck handling).

Simmonds is addition by subtraction, his best role would be 4th line checking wing and PP specialist, but in that case he has more value to other teams.
Voracek could get us a nice package, say a young RW, a veteran to balance salaries and a 1st rd pick and maybe more.
Weal could get us . . . maybe a bottom six RW for a team that wants to try him at center.

Guys like Lehtera, Weise, MacDonald you waive and bury when you have enough depth. As Leier showed, they have no value.

 

[Magua]

Serious question: What's the list of realistic potential replacements look like at this point?

The obvious names are Gordon, Knoblauch, Keefe, Lappy, Sutter, Bylsma, Todd Nelson, Vigneault, Kirk Muller, Tippett, Oates?

Going back to college isn't a move I think he can make and if he was going to hire a CHL coach, you would imagine it would just be Knoblauch instead.

As we've said before: coaching development in an organization, especially one priding itself on methodical and deep prospect building/development, is not something to be forgotten. You have to have people in the organization who you can envision as future head coaches.

The Flyers have a very very green Knoblauch, who is the sole exception. But he hasn't been a successful AHL coach for several years or the like. He's been (at least in hazily visible results) a mediocre NHL assistant coach for 1+ year. That's a lot on his plate. Murphy is the definition of a mediocre journeyman coach plying his trade for mediocre teams -- zero upside, actual downside even as an assistant. Lappy is a total failure on the verge of being fired. Gordon is an Xs and Os disaster at the AHL level and a failure at the NHL level. That's it. That's what they've got, and they're to blame.

It's hard to get into the mind of a prospective coach on paper and determine who is and isn't a good choice. Would we have clamored for dumpster diving Bruce Cassidy? No, but hell if it didn't work. So, we have to have faith in the GM and higher ups knowing what they want in a coach. That should not be comforting. It's an awful list you posted, and not at all unrealistic if they take the safe, skittish route and go for past experience and credentials after a college hire. Knoblauch as interim HC is the only worthy option they've left themselves in-house. Sheldon Keefe is the only really interesting option, but that would require another bold risk. And that doesn't feel like a mid-season hire.

 

[deadhead]

They were traded because the GM had put himself in cap and prospect hell, not because the team sucked in 2009. You're proposing we blow up the team right now if Hakstol is fired.

No, just some of the veterans.
To me the team IS the young players, Patrick, TK, Lindblom, Sanheim, Vorobyev, Hagg plus Couts and Ghost and Laughton.
I'm not interested in trading any of them unless we get a top young player who's cost controlled (i.e. RFA extension, not UFA).

As far as I'm concerned, the Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds era is over, time to move on. They had their shot, came up short repeatedly. Three times in six years out in the 1st round. We're not the Penguins or Caps, a few tweaks away from a Cup.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, just some of the veterans.
To me the team IS the young players, Patrick, TK, Lindblom, Sanheim, Vorobyev, Hagg plus Couts and Ghost and Laughton.
I'm not interested in trading any of them unless we get a top young player who's cost controlled (i.e. RFA extension, not UFA).

As far as I'm concerned, the Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds era is over, time to move on. They had their shot, came up short repeatedly. Three times in six years out in the 1st round. We're not the Penguins or Caps, a few tweaks away from a Cup.

The Simmonds era is over. Giroux and Voracek aren't, yet.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

As we've said before: coaching development in an organization, especially one priding itself on methodical and deep prospect building/development, is not something to be forgotten. You have to have people in the organization who you can envision as future head coaches.

The Flyers have a very very green Knoblauch, who is the sole exception. But he hasn't been a successful AHL coach for several years or the like. He's been (at least in hazily visible results) a mediocre NHL assistant coach for 1+ year. That's a lot on his plate. Murphy is the definition of a mediocre journeyman coach plying his trade for mediocre teams -- zero upside, actual downside even as an assistant. Lappy is a total failure on the verge of being fired. Gordon is an Xs and Os disaster at the AHL level and a failure at the NHL level. That's it. That's what they've got, and they're to blame.

It's hard to get into the mind of a prospective coach on paper and determine who is and isn't a good choice. Would we have clamored for dumpster diving Bruce Cassidy? No, but hell if it didn't work. So, we have to have faith in the GM and higher ups knowing what they want in a coach. That should not be comforting. It's an awful list you posted, and not at all unrealistic if they take the safe, skittish route and go for past experience and credentials after a college hire. Knoblauch as interim HC is the only worthy option they've left themselves in-house. Sheldon Keefe is the only really interesting option, but that would require another bold risk. And that doesn't feel like a mid-season hire.

Right, I was going for what they would consider, not my list. You do bring up a very good point though. Step 1 is whether they want to go Interim or not. That could even put Murphy back on the table as a groomer for Knoblauch to potentially take it in the offseason.

They're not going to make it to a theoretical Quenneville availability if Hakstol goes soon. There's no obvious Kings' org AHL option -- Stothers was hired after Hextall left and I can't imagine Mark Morris being a sellable option.

....do we have to consider they see Don Nachbaur as a legit candidate?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think we have to consider that they might be picking between Lappy and Knob.

 

[freakydallas13]

Never said those players were terrible, said a year ago this is the team of misfit toys.
If you put TK on the first line, Voracek and Simmonds just don't fit.
If Weal is at center, he only works with Lindblom and TK.
Vorobyev isn't ready to center JVR and Simmonds (look ma, no defense, no puck handling).

Simmonds is addition by subtraction, his best role would be 4th line checking wing and PP specialist, but in that case he has more value to other teams.
Voracek could get us a nice package, say a young RW, a veteran to balance salaries and a 1st rd pick and maybe more.
Weal could get us . . . maybe a bottom six RW for a team that wants to try him at center.

Guys like Lehtera, Weise, MacDonald you waive and bury when you have enough depth. As Leier showed, they have no value.

You conveniently dodged all the questions related to coaching in my post, just an fyi.

 

[Jtown]

I think we have to consider that they might be picking between Lappy and Knob.

if Lappy became head coach id have to rethink my stance on an antifreeze bleach martini

 

[Beef Invictus]

if Lappy became head coach id have to rethink my stance on an antifreeze bleach martini

You need to get the ratio right though. The bleach is a strong flavor.

 

[deadhead]

You conveniently dodged all the questions related to coaching in my post, just an fyi.

If you go back to the thread when Hakstol was hired, I said the only thing that mattered is whether the young players progressed, since in that case he'd leave a more talented team behind then when he was hired. And that's exactly what's occurred, it's the veterans who have regressed this year.

So I have never really cared about Hakstol otherwise, because I always figured it would take care of itself.
As long as we keep developing talent, some coach will win with it in the next decade. The way Pittsburgh went from Bylsma to Johnston to Sullivan.
I was never interested in some "miracle" coach getting us to the second round (and with our goalies, that's about the practical limit).

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

I'll take Vigneault. Having Hak as coach is mentally exhausting.

Even Vigneault as an interim coach to finish the season and them go after a coach you see fitting the team in the off season

 

[bennysflyers16]

Knoblauch is the guy, get him in their now for the kids. Then Hire all vet assistants for next year.

Hak and Lappy are easy fires.

 

[Tripod]

What horse shit am I reading now???? Voracek is not a fit???

Did we forget that he led the 2nd line from X-Mas to April last year posting .5 PPG at ES....behind only our top line of Couts-G and TK. All while playing with 2 rookies.

What a deadly f***ing hot take. Just awful.

 

[Rebels57]

What horse **** am I reading now???? Voracek is not a fit???

Did we forget that he led the 2nd line from X-Mas to April last year posting .5 PPG at ES....behind only our top line of Couts-G and TK.

What a deadly ****ing hot take. Just awful.

There are some really stupid people around here.

 

[Lindberg]

What horse **** am I reading now???? Voracek is not a fit???

Did we forget that he led the 2nd line from X-Mas to April last year posting .5 PPG at ES....behind only our top line of Couts-G and TK.

What a deadly ****ing hot take. Just awful.

He's also a liability out there defensively but lets ignore that.

 

[Tripod]

He's also a liability out there defensively but lets ignore that.

Every shift? Every game? Every season?

Who replaces his 85 points? Or his 20 goals? And he was +10 last year therefore it means he is good defensively....according to certain people who use that stat to say Hagg was good last year.

 

[Lindberg]

Every shift? Every game? Every season?

Who replaces his 85 points? Or his 20 goals? And he was +10 last year therefore it means he is good defensively....according to certain people who use that stat to say Hagg was good last year.

Guy has controller disconnected syndrome. You don't sell him for table scraps but if there is a trade out there that makes a lot of sense like possibly a 1 for 1 of Panarin Hextall should pull the trigger and move on from him.

Its a problem more often than not.

 

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

Can you believe we have the worst PK in the NHL again this year and the PK coach has a job lol. What is this year 4? Lolol team won’t even make the playoffs, complete joke.

 

[Tripod]

Guy has controller disconnected syndrome. You don't sell him for table scraps but if there is a trade out there that makes a lot of sense like possibly a 1 for 1 of Panarin Hextall should pull the trigger and move on from him.

Its a problem more often than not.

Panarin is a -2 this year....he is bad defensively.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If you’re mad about Voracek defensively, Panarin isn’t going to exactly satisfy your thirst there.

 

[hatcher]

Old core finally will be gone and hopefully some good returns.

 

[freakydallas13]

If you go back to the thread when Hakstol was hired, I said the only thing that mattered is whether the young players progressed, since in that case he'd leave a more talented team behind then when he was hired. And that's exactly what's occurred, it's the veterans who have regressed this year.

So I have never really cared about Hakstol otherwise, because I always figured it would take care of itself.
As long as we keep developing talent, some coach will win with it in the next decade. The way Pittsburgh went from Bylsma to Johnston to Sullivan.
I was never interested in some "miracle" coach getting us to the second round (and with our goalies, that's about the practical limit).

On this much at least, we can agree. The rest, well, lets just say I think a coach has a bigger impact than you are admitting.