Post-Game Talk: #10 | FLYERS 4 at Senators 5 | Thu. Oct. 26, 7:30 pm ET

[hatcher]

I am perfectly ok with them sitting NP. Even if they sit him again against the Leafs. His health will go a long way in the Flyers being contenders at some point.

Have a bad feeling we got Lindros 2 with Patrick with injuries. Hope not.

 

[Curufinwe]

TK and Laughton tied for ice time. It's embarrassing at this point

Your post is embarrassing because Laughton's been very good this season

 

[hatcher]

Your post is embarrassing because Laughton's been very good this season

Laughton has been better than TK at how the system should be played and he doesnt give pucks away either. TK threw a bad pass again last night that led to a goal but made up for it somewhat.

 

[CSKA1974]

Hate to say it, sure we got screwed, but it was the 3-0 first period that lost us the game. They need to come out playing hard and crisp, like even when they lost the LA game. Playing hard for 60 and still losing is admirable, but also likely your gonna be on the winning end more than not playing a full game not two periods or just one.

Not arguing your point about bad start. However, they were robbed from the opportunity to come back.

Sport history is made by seemingly insurmountable comebacks.

 

[Tripod]

Laughton has been better than TK at how the system should be played and he doesnt give pucks away either. TK threw a bad pass again last night that led to a goal but made up for it somewhat.

He did...but that pass was at center ice and it was still a 2 on 2. TK played Karlsson very well to angle him to the outside. I thought Provy played it much worse backing all the way in with his guy and his guy scoring. And of course, couldn't get a save when we needed it.

 

[alfstheman]

Sens fan coming in peace.

Honestly when that goalie interference no goal call happened I was confused as f**k. Sorry for the terrible reffing shouldve at least gone to overtime.

 

[David St Hubbins]

The "meant to blow the whistle" rule is an atrocity and I can't remember when it last went in our favor. When the whistle actually blows, that's when play needs to be over. Not the arbitrary point decided by an official some mysterious time before it blows.

I was always taught that "you play until the whistle." Apparently in the NHL its "play until the ref decides retro-actively that he intended to blow the whistle." So I guess 'hockey sense' is defined to include ESP.

 

[Striiker]

He did...but that pass was at center ice and it was still a 2 on 2. TK played Karlsson very well to angle him to the outside. I thought Provy played it much worse backing all the way in with his guy and his guy scoring. And of course, couldn't get a save when we needed it.

Yep, that goal is far more on the D and Neuvirth than it is on Konecny.

Far too much happened between the failed pass and the goal to pin it on him.

 

[Freddy The Fog]

1. Sloppy play - again - somewhat expected given the rookies/youth on the team. But disappointing.
2. Don't deserve a point given the hole they dug. Good teams don't do that.
3. All that said... I hope the offical swallows his whistle and has to shit it painfully out his a**.
4. Absolutely no doubt if that had been Crosby, McDavid, etc.....it would have counted. Bias league.
5. Why bother to review the play if you're going to call, 'intent to blow'?
6. Really really really really really..................................................................pissed.
7. I sincerely would not mind calling up ANY goalie in the organization - sacrificing the next 7 games...cause we aint winning a Cup this year like this - and seeing if they are stupid hot and play them if they are. Neuvirth has potential as a serious potential backup - but not what I want in a tandem you can count on. Elliott is God awful (but no worse than Mason was last year).
8. This team is still MUCH better than last years team.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

On the bright side: in another dimension with better refereeing in two games (and/or maybe not the world's worst goaltending in those games), this team would be 7-3.

They've shown excellent resilience when down and facing adversity. Gotta at least give Hakstol some credit for that.

They've had more scoring chances than their opponent in 9/10 games. Not going to do much better than that.

The first line has been absolutely fantastic.

On the downside: Scoring depth again appears to be an issue. The middle six has been pretty weak overall.

The team's passing and # of forced plays that aren't there are inexcusable.

God-awful goaltending has cost them two games.

 

[deadhead]

Actually, the Flyers aren't playing bad, they're leading or close to the lead in fewest shots allowed.
They have too many breakdowns leading to good scoring chances, but a lot of that is playing young players (Konency, Sanheim, Hagg, etc) who make mistakes.

The goalies are the #1 issue, when they play like above average goalies the team is competitive with anyone, when they don't make big saves the team is still in most games. When they give up "Mr. Softee" goals the team is in trouble.

The second issue is they miss MacDonald, sometimes it's not how good a player is, but how well he allows teammates to fit together, Provorov doesn't look as good without MacDonald on the defensive end. But if you put Ghost with Provorov, Sanheim is the only other puck mover, put him with Gudas then you have Manning/Morin with Hagg. Not as balanced, and that third pair becoms an adventure (and no, Morin is not going to be a huge upgrade over Manning THIS year, he'll make more than his share of mistakes, especially if you don't have a veteran to pair with him).

The third issue is growing pains, the kids aren't alright, they're making mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Ideally, you want a team full of 3-4th year players who have experience and are entering their prime, we're 2-3 years away from that point. So live with it.

The team is more talented than last year, it's playing better than last year, but it's a transition year (and the same will be true next season when they have 4-5 more novice starters).

2017-18: 2.50 ES goals per game - sv % .897
2016-17: 1.88 ES goals per game - sv % .905 [88 points]
2015-16: 1.89 ES goals per game - sv % .920 [96]
2014-15: 1.82 ES goals per game - sv % .914 [84]
2013-14: 2.04 ES goals per game - sv % .912 [94]
2012-13: 2.17 ES goals per game - sv % .905 [49]
2011-12: 2.29 ES goals per game - sv % .906 [103]
2010-11: 2.37 ES goals per game - sv % .915 [106]
2009-10: 1.94 ES goals per game - sv % .907 [88]
2008-09: 2.11 ES goals per game - sv % .914 [99]
2007-08: 1.80 ES goals per game - sv % .915 [95]
2006-07: 1.77 ES goals per game - sv % .892 [56]
2005-06: 2.00 ES goals per game - sv % .896 [101]
2003-04: 1.91 ES goals per game - sv % .912 [101]
2002-03: 1.90 ES goals per game - sv % .920 [107]
2001-02: 2.28 ES goals per game - sv % .913 [97]
2000-01: 2.12 ES goals per game - sv % .907 [100]

"Conservative" Hakstol has the team scorng at ES at the highest rate of the century.
Now if Hextall could just find him a decent goalie!

 

[deadhead]

On the downside: Scoring depth again appears to be an issue. The middle six has been pretty weak overall.

The good news is help is on the way.
Patrick will improve as the season goes along.
There's a bunch of potential upgrades in the AHL.
More potential upgrades will be in LHV next year.
There's a lot of ammunition if the right (i.e. top young forward) becomes available.

I don't see Hextall going for veteran fixes because until the goalie issue is resolved, this team isn't going deep into the playoffs.
But you can't blame him for not trying: Stolarz, Lyon, Hart, Sandstrom, Tomek, the Russians (Madsen).
Sometimes you just need a little luck.

 

[NYCFlyer]

This team is going to need a lot of patience. Right now it is all about developing young players, not necessary winning games. I am actually surprised how well they played so far. Team is .500 and scoring 3.4 gpg. Yes that game against Caps helped but whatever.. I just hope that head coach improves game plan and makes sure that forwards back check and play good D.

We have played a lot of good teams and only had one real clunker. They don't give up and play hard. We are 5-5 and could easily be 7-3. I've said it before the season and still strongly believe our biggest challenge in making the playoffs is Goaltending followed by weak D play primarily from lack of experience. I'm not surprised at the "i hate the coach", "i hate the GM" reaction as all fanbases emotionally react to poor performances but i am a little surprised at the lack of perspective. We have a bottom 5 in league goaltending tandem and a bottom 10 in the league D core, We played 9 pretty good teams and competed hard and were totally jobbed in two of those games. The coaching staff and the team has exceeded my expectations given where we are in the rebuild and the D and G.

 

[hatcher]

Team D is terrible and worse then last year. All coaching should be in the Dzone.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Yes, and that shows that executives around the league are stunningly moronic, which anyone with an iota of gray matter will have noticed long ago.

Or maybe there aren't that many really good coaches. As a wise man once said, when everyone around you is a complete idiot you need to make sure the real idiot isn't in the mirror.

 

[NYCFlyer]

And the Konecny hate too.

Anything to defend Hak.

More of the same garbage. I don't always agree with him but at least deadhead tries to defend his position and talk hockey instead of just insulting other posters.

 

[Rebels57]

We have played a lot of good teams and only had one real clunker. They don't give up and play hard. We are 5-5 and could easily be 7-3. I've said it before the season and still strongly believe our biggest challenge in making the playoffs is Goaltending followed by weak D play primarily from lack of experience. I'm not surprised at the "i hate the coach", "i hate the GM" reaction as all fanbases emotionally react to poor performances but i am a little surprised at the lack of perspective. We have a bottom 5 in league goaltending tandem and a bottom 10 in the league D core, We played 9 pretty good teams and competed hard and were totally jobbed in two of those games. The coaching staff and the team has exceeded my expectations given where we are in the rebuild and the D and G.

A lot of this is true..

But..the reason the coach gets heat is because he continually makes decision that make it more difficult for the team to win.

Last night was another example when he gave Manning the opening shift only for Shit For Brains to take a penalty within 36 seconds that put us behind instantly. Ive said it before every game that Manning has played this season and ill say it again, dressing him is spotting the other team a goal before the game starts. Its little shit like that..or playing Weise over Leier and mixing up the D pairs against Anaheim..that bring the heat on him.

If he just got out of the way of himself we would all have an easier time accepting game results.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The good news is help is on the way.
Patrick will improve as the season goes along.
There's a bunch of potential upgrades in the AHL.
More potential upgrades will be in LHV next year.
There's a lot of ammunition if the right (i.e. top young forward) becomes available.

I don't see Hextall going for veteran fixes because until the goalie issue is resolved, this team isn't going deep into the playoffs.
But you can't blame him for not trying: Stolarz, Lyon, Hart, Sandstrom, Tomek, the Russians (Madsen).
Sometimes you just need a little luck.

I think Patrick will improve, but I'm still not expecting more than 30 points from him, and that might be stretching it.

I agree there are upgrades in the AHL. But will Hextall call them up? Right now, Martel should be in the NHL over Lehtera. Vecchione should be in the NHL over Read. Lindblom, eventually, should be in the NHL over Weise.

Actually, just add Martel, Vecchione, Lindblom to the Flyers and send down Lehtera, Read, and Weise, and they are a much better team. But Hextall is overly deferential to his lousy vets, so I don't think it's going to happen. It'll be like Weal getting buried most of last season.

Goaltending, I can't even really blame Hextall. There was nothing out there that was a sure thing, and the position is rife with risk. I didn't want Mason back, and he's been terrible in the 'peg, anyway. Neuvirth has only had one bad game. Elliott still has time to get better. That said, it's a team weakness.

 

[deadhead]

I'm not sure they're a better team, Martel would add speed, but make an undersized team even smaller. As Anaheim showed, that can be exploited.
Lindblom will be ready at some point, but his slow start was better in the AHL where he could work on his game without pressure.
MV may or may not be NHL caliber, can't presume he's an upgrade.
Vorobyev will be an upgrade at some point, but he's inexperienced and adjusting to NA ice.

Hextall isn't deferential to his vets, Lehtera started as the 13th forward and Read in the AHL.
He just won't bring kids up until they're ready to start every game, he doesn't want them in the pressbox.
It's frustrating, but got to keep the long view, we're building something special here.

It's just hard to sign or trade for an above average goalie, because teams that have 'em, hold onto 'em.

 

[The Rage Kage]

I haven't forgotten that he played Couturier with RJ Umberger and a hobbled Matt Read, gave him 39% OZ starts, then called him out out for not producing like Patrice Bergeron.

I still suspect Rinaldo is his bastard love child.

 

[Striiker]

More of the same garbage. I don't always agree with him but at least deadhead tries to defend his position and talk hockey instead of just insulting other posters.

Quote the insult.

 

[kelmitchell]

I will give Haks props for his post game interview though. The highlight:

First time in his life he ever showed emotion, i bet his wife didnt get that much emotion out of him on their wedding day, i bet he gave her the infamous haktard stare, but good for him for growing a pair

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Or maybe there aren't that many really good coaches. As a wise man once said, when everyone around you is a complete idiot you need to make sure the real idiot isn't in the mirror.

There aren't that many good retread coaches who have coached in the NHL that executives can blend back into the mix - there are plenty of sharp young hockey minds coaching at lower levels who could be brought in and help the game progress and modernize. I don't want to sound like I know this for a fact - I don't know anything, really. But for one thing, it stands to reason that this is the case. For another, there was a thread on the main board a while ago that had an unfortunately brief life where posters more knowledgeable than myself were discussing the names and attributes of these coaches and it made for very interesting reading. I'm just excited by the thought of modernization. Some coaches are being brought in, of course, but it frequently takes an awfully long time for them to get their shot.

I had to watch the TSN feed last night because NHL.tv was trying to kill itself, and Ray Ferraro was talking about how well-respected Knoblauch is as a young hockey mind. I'm honestly almost as excited by him as I am by our prospects, and I pray that we don't do anything to mess up the succession planning (if that is what Hexy has in mind, and I think it is) where he would eventually replace Hakstok. Of course there are no guarantees whatsoever that it would work out any better for him than it has for Hakstok, and of course we will complain about him non-stop early and often, but I'm excited by the prospect anyway, and I don't really like coaches at all - they just seem like angry principals and angry principals always gave me no end of grief, because I have always been full of mischief.

I don't remember what post started this discussion and I am too lazy to go look - these are just some thoughts I had.

 

[ybnvs]

Is the Gudas hit posted anywhere? I've searched online, but I'm bad with the internet.
Apologies if it was posted previously in this thread.

For some reason the site is extremely laggy right now and I'm having difficulty getting through single page threads, let alone multi-page PGTs.

Thanks.

 

[Hurricane28]

Surprised there isn't a thread for the Gudas hit