Post-Game Talk: #10 - Flames @ Rangers

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I agree with this, and you'll usually see me argue for those players that make glaring mistakes but do lots of great small plays (Del Zotto syndrome), but Miller's "bad plays" have been distressingly common since he's come into the league.

To be fair, I think they have decreased since last year. Which is why I think he is seeing more ice time.

He still makes them... But so do other players. For example, I saw Lindberg make a blind behind the back 3 line pass last time to try and spur a break out. It was obviously intercepted and a rush almost ensued on the way back. Lindberg of all players. But no one noticed. Another example, Yandle doing a spin o Rama back hand pass from our own face off dot... Another nearly intercepted pass on the center line.

I think his reputation makes us look for these careless plays. Sure. I'd love to see him clean it up. But I think he is now at a manageable rate to remain in the lineup.

 

[nyr2k2]

The Rangers' puck management, as average as it's been, has been much better than their last few horrendous starts to the season.

Hopefully a good sign for the coming months.

That's what I'm seeing, too. I think it's reflected in the results. This has been a much better start than most in recent memory. Not great, but certainly better.

 

[nyr2k2]

To be fair, I think they have decreased since last year. Which is why I think he is seeing more ice time.

He still makes them... But so do other players. For example, I saw Lindberg make a blind behind the back 3 line pass last time to try and spur a break out. It was obviously intercepted and a rush almost ensued on the way back. Lindberg of all players. But no one noticed. Another example, Yandle doing a spin o Rama back hand pass from our own face off dot... Another nearly intercepted pass on the center line.

I think his reputation makes us look for these careless plays. Sure. I'd love to see him clean it up. But I think he is now at a manageable rate to remain in the lineup.

You're right in that his mistakes are somewhat more noticeable because we're all looking for them. He does need to clean it up. However there's no one in the organization close to supplanting him. His blend of physical attributes and talent is too great to bench for more than a game or two. I'd hoped he'd be more settled in, but I'm still more than willing to deal with the growing pains.

 

[Raspewtin]

You're right in that his mistakes are somewhat more noticeable because we're all looking for them. He does need to clean it up. However there's no one in the organization close to supplanting him. His blend of physical attributes and talent is too great to bench for more than a game or two. I'd hoped he'd be more settled in, but I'm still more than willing to deal with the growing pains.

If we were healthy I'd be in favor of HS'ing him. He's been that bad.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If we were healthy I'd be in favor of HS'ing him. He's been that bad.

I really disagree. If I'm not mistaken, he has spent 2 games being punished and on the 4th line. 0 points in those games. 6 in the remaining 8, with good line mates.

I think you absolutely cannot HS him. Not unless he really makes some atrocious decisions in consecutive games or something.

 

[nyr2k2]

I would be okay with another scratch as a wakeup call, but his production is good and I wouldn't want anything beyond that.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I would be okay with another scratch as a wakeup call, but his production is good and I wouldn't want anything beyond that.

He got better with more playing time last year. I wouldn't start scratching. The stick isn't the most effective with him. The carrot much more.

 

[Trxjw]

He makes some really savvy and unsung plays. There was a shift last night where I saw him lift up a Flame stick and steal the puck in their zone 3x!

The glaringly bad plays are noticeable while these subtle positive ones are not.

He needs to gain consistency, I agree, but I don't think his time is running out. His ice time is increasing.

He does make some good plays, but they're not exactly commonplace, which is the crux of what I'm saying. He still makes too many careless plays with the puck.

As for his ice-time increasing, that's part of the issue with him. He rarely takes advantage of the increase in ice time. Even just this year he started off hot, was rewarded with more ice time, and turned in a couple of really poor performances. He has to start making the most of his opportunities and that starts with consistency. He needs to find a way to bring it every night. That doesn't mean points on the board every night, but just playing hard, keeping the mistakes to a minimum, and playing to his strengths.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

He does make some good plays, but they're not exactly commonplace, which is the crux of what I'm saying. He still makes too many careless plays with the puck.

As for his ice-time increasing, that's part of the issue with him. He rarely takes advantage of the increase in ice time. Even just this year he started off hot, was rewarded with more ice time, and turned in a couple of really poor performances. He has to start making the most of his opportunities and that starts with consistency. He needs to find a way to bring it every night. That doesn't mean points on the board every night, but just playing hard, keeping the mistakes to a minimum, and playing to his strengths.

Bringing it every night seems to be a common problem for a lot of our guys. Nash, Kreider, brass, Miller, Hayes, McDonagh, Yandle, Girardi.

I think we want the same thing and agree about pretty much everything besides what the writing on the wall is for him. You think his days could be numbered. I think he's only just starting his Rangers tenure.

 

[Inferno]

im going to wholeheartedly disagree with peoples assessment of Miller.

I think hes a high risk player...yes...but his good FAR outweighs his bad.

if you had nothing but low risk vanilla players youd have a team full of Fasths.


guys who almost never make the wrong play, but rarely do anything to create dynamic offense.

I like Fasth. I like Miller.

But i'll take the riskier player to compliment the vanilla player every day of the week.

 

[aufheben]

Shoot better shots?

I'll find his shot charts to verify this.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Nash is just incredibly disappointing.

Yes, I know he plays hard, but we can pay a 3rd liner to bring what Nash is when he's not scoring.

And, from my perspective, it's simple to see why he's not scoring. He plays with zero aggression when he has the puck. He'll have separation from a defender, and instead of using his size and speed to drive to the net, he opts to throw a low percentage shot on goal from the top of the circle with nobody in position to get a rebound. There's a reason his shooting percentage sucks, and it's because his shot selection is terrible.

Nash scores goals in close with his reach, either by changing the angle on his shot, or stickhandling around the goalie in close quarters. He just doesn't have the wrist shot or snapper to score from where he's trying to do so. He can't keep throwing these muffins on net and expect anything to come of it. His coaches should be telling him this. It's frustrating to see a guy with his unique blend of size, speed, strength, and talent opt to use none of them on the rush.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I still don't understand all this Nash hate when he's at least playing and trying to create offense out there. Kreider is playing like some disinterested joe shmo who's collecting a paycheck every week

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I still don't understand all this Nash hate when he's at least playing and trying to create offense out there. Kreider is playing like some disinterested joe shmo who's collecting a paycheck every week

How is this hard to understand. He is the highest paid position player. That's all the justification anyone needs. They're not paying him 4x kreiders salary to just try harder.

Kreider, as I've said, has been disappointing, but he's still young, cost controllable, and has proven in 3 consecutive postseasons that he is an X factor to the team's success.

Nash doesn't deserve the pay and doesn't show up in post season. That's where the criticism arises from. It is not hate. But justified critiques.

 

[Trxjw]

Bringing it every night seems to be a common problem for a lot of our guys. Nash, Kreider, brass, Miller, Hayes, McDonagh, Yandle, Girardi.

I think we want the same thing and agree about pretty much everything besides what the writing on the wall is for him. You think his days could be numbered. I think he's only just starting his Rangers tenure.

That's really an apples and oranges comparison. None of those guys are vying to establish a spot in the lineup. They're all proven NHLers and in Hayes' case he was able to step in and steal a spot last year that was all but guaranteed to be Miller's if he had just shown up and played well enough to take it.

Regardless, I don't think his days are numbered. I think that this is his last chance to prevent his days from being numbered. He had a solid playoff performance and coming into camp there was a top-six wing spot wide open for him to take and he was once again unable to take hold of it. If he can't find some consistency, I think the team will cut their losses and play the trade card.

 

[aufheben]

Bringing it every night seems to be a common problem for a lot of our guys. Nash, Kreider, brass, Miller, Hayes, McDonagh, Yandle, Girardi.

I think we want the same thing and agree about pretty much everything besides what the writing on the wall is for him. You think his days could be numbered. I think he's only just starting his Rangers tenure.

hmmm?

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

hmmm?

I have a pro Yandle agenda. I like him in this system and locker room. He provides a skill set unique to this team. But there are games he takes off.

Most players do this. Just highlighting that a lot of players are inconsistent with bringing it every game. Not just Miller.

 

[aufheben]

I can't find a shot chart this early in the season but I remember reading the same stuff about Nash in the playoffs, and he was actually shooting from better areas then than in the regular season. A little luck/bad luck changes how people perceive what a player is doing.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

I think ever since the CBJ game where Nash was wrecking guys he's looked noticeable on offense.

Hard to get on him when the team is keeping pace with the top of the division. When he does start scoring the Rangers are gonna win a lot of games.

Hopefully his puckluck kicks in just in time for the playoffs and he goes off like he did early last yearm

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I can't find a shot chart this early in the season but I remember reading the same stuff about Nash in the playoffs, and he was actually shooting from better areas then than in the regular season. A little luck/bad luck changes how people perceive what a player is doing.

I can agree with this to a certain extent. Nash has always been a streaky scorer, and maybe this is the kind of thing we all just need to wait out. I certainly can't fault him on effort, but at some point, your highest paid skater needs to produce. I'm almost at the point of blaming the coaching staff, because he should be getting honest critiques about what he can do to be a better player. He shows no issues going to the front of the net to battle for loose pucks. That's why I'm confused why he doesn't show the same willingness off the rush. Nash would rather fire a shot from the top of the circle before a defender gets near him than dip the shoulder and create some havoc at the net mouth. I just don't understand it.

 

[OverTheCap]

Kreider and Miller have both been disappointing so far.

The same inconsistency issues that have plagued Kreider throughout his young career still persist. There are way too many games where he is barely noticeable. He isn't using his talent and physical gifts to his utmost potential. I had really hoped he would take the next step this year in terms of consistency but if anything it looks he like he may have taken a step back.

With Miller, it's the same mistakes and poor decision-making with the puck every year. I have my doubts that he will ever develop into a competent two-way player. The good thing is he's been productive despite being a defensive liability at times, but it's going to tough to trust him with big minutes if he doesn't cut down on his mistakes.

 

[Levitate]

im going to wholeheartedly disagree with peoples assessment of Miller.

I think hes a high risk player...yes...but his good FAR outweighs his bad.

if you had nothing but low risk vanilla players youd have a team full of Fasths.


guys who almost never make the wrong play, but rarely do anything to create dynamic offense.

I like Fasth. I like Miller.

But i'll take the riskier player to compliment the vanilla player every day of the week.

I feel like for all the times I see Miller make a bad play like try a tricky pass that turns the puck over in a bad spot, or tries to dangle through too many players, he makes another play like aggressively going after a loose puck that opposing players have a step on and makes a good play to keep possession by being aggressive and physical. It's a fine line because Miller isn't talented enough offensively to get away with making tons of turnovers, but I'm hesitant to call him a detriment at the moment.

I think this team needs to straighten out their defensive coverage and puck management but it's still worlds better than it was this time last year and I hope the Rangers top line guys will get going soon.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I can't find a shot chart this early in the season but I remember reading the same stuff about Nash in the playoffs, and he was actually shooting from better areas then than in the regular season. A little luck/bad luck changes how people perceive what a player is doing.

A shot chart just represents a distance that a shot came from.

In the regular season Nash finds clear lanes to the net with the puck on his stick, something that disappears PO time.

If what you're saying is true, Nash truly is a 'playoff choker' then, considering how frequently he capitalizes on these chances in the RS versus the PO including a SC run which he had q mere 3 goals. He's had 3 long PO runs now to capitalize on, including 2 ECF and 1 SCF run.

Nash apologists seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. I like the guy but it's really hard to defend what he's done come PO time.

 

[aufheben]

A shot chart just represents a distance that a shot came from.

In the regular season Nash finds clear lanes to the net with the puck on his stick, something that disappears PO time.

If what you're saying is true, Nash truly is a 'playoff choker' then, considering how frequently he capitalizes on these chances in the RS versus the PO including a SC run which he had q mere 3 goals. He's had 3 long PO runs now to capitalize on, including 2 ECF and 1 SCF run.

Nash apologists seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. I like the guy but it's really hard to defend what he's done come PO time.

Yes?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Yes?

We're really gonna ignore the pivotal point to my post? According to you, his chances don't change from RS to PO time, which would indeed make him a choker then. He's had 3 long playoff runs with these glorious chances and yet failed to capitalize.

People defending Nash are having their cake while eating it too.