Post-Game Talk: #10 - Flames @ Rangers

[Machinehead]

 

[TheTakedown]

Basically the game was a snoozefest the first half. Three games in four nights--apparently that hasn't fully sunk in for some people. Calgary has the habit of getting their D involved a lot more than most teams. 23 shots against (that's a big improvement over last night)--and the Rangers the much stronger team in the third period despite the 3 games in 4 nights. There's a lot of negativity on this forum--every time we win posters here are looking to find fault with somebody or another and when we lose it's almost always some kind of collective meltdown---and then there's the continuing drooling over players who play for average to bad teams and some of those players that's all they've ever played for but they're still drooled over anyway.

Stepan by the way seems to have hit a lull the last couple games and Brassard hasn't been consistently good either apart from face-offs. Nice that he's scored goals in the last couple games nonetheless. Both of those guys usually are better. Overall Zuccarello has been the best and most consistent player in our top 6 so far and Brassard and Stepan are not that close and Nash and Kreider are even further away. Hayes-Miller-Lindberg has been our best line. We're not firing on all cylinders for sure but the team is still racking up standing points and close to 3 goals scored per and about 2 goals against. It could be a lot ****ing worse.

I forgot to include zuccs but I figured he is a given regarding how good the start of the year has been for him...

As for the shots against, Calgary's forward corps are less talented than Philly's (especially the top 6)... That's probably most of the reason why we were able to limit shots. We also only took 1 penalty i believe. Very good as well.

I understand it could be worse and I completely agree ...

What's really killing this team is the fact that there is no 2RW locked up... Fast is OK in that role, but he is more of a depth player than a scorer. Miller works better on the 3rd line.... Etem hasbt proven enough to warrant a regular spot but I liked how he played a lot tonight. Nowhere near the liability some projected he would be...

It would be fantastic to see which of Etem or Miller this coaching staff sees the potential for a regular 2nd line player... My gut says Etem but my head says miller...

 

[ltsthinaz]

Columbus stinks. Pittsburgh IMHO is overrated. Toronto, Carolina, Buffalo and the Devils haven't a prayer of making the playoffs. Ottawa is meh.

Right now I worry about Montreal and the Crapitals, who are the best teams in hockey.

But it is a long season and we ARE making the playoffs. So let's not get crazy yet, this may not be the team we take into the playoffs, with a better Klein, a better Yandle and Lindberg being a real keeper, we'll be in the mix as Cup contendas. And, oh, by the way, I think we have the best goaltending tandem in the NHL.

Sure do worry about Staal and Boyle, however. I'd like to see them play McIlrath.

And the power play looks AWFUL.

 

[Calad]

Is it Allaire or have we just been good at getting backup goalies here recently. What a treat to watch Raanta is. Early but I was worried about losing Talbot, but so far it looks like we did a fine job replacing him.

It's definitely Allaire. He's like a goalie alchemist, can turn anything into gold

 

[darko]

It's definitely Allaire. He's like a goalie alchemist, can turn anything into gold

That guy is worth every penny.

 

[Revel]

I'm very happy we have Allaire, but he didn't create Raanta. The Finns have a knack for churning out quality goalies. Raanta also had great numbers with the Hawks last year. .936 SV% and 1.89 GAA.

Acquiring Raanta was a great move by Gorton. We knew what we were getting. Allaire can probably work out any kinks Raanta has in his game, but to imply that Allaire is responsible for Raanta's play thus far is pushing it.

 

[darko]

Columbus stinks. Pittsburgh IMHO is overrated. Toronto, Carolina, Buffalo and the Devils haven't a prayer of making the playoffs. Ottawa is meh.

Right now I worry about Montreal and the Crapitals, who are the best teams in hockey.

But it is a long season and we ARE making the playoffs. So let's not get crazy yet, this may not be the team we take into the playoffs, with a better Klein, a better Yandle and Lindberg being a real keeper, we'll be in the mix as Cup contendas. And, oh, by the way, I think we have the best goaltending tandem in the NHL.

Sure do worry about Staal and Boyle, however. I'd like to see them play McIlrath.

And the power play looks AWFUL.

It's early. Habs and Caps look good. Tampa is the best team in the East.

Tier 1 - Tampa/Rangers
Tier 2 - Caps/Habs
Tier 3 - Isles

Then it's a crapshoot from there with about 6 teams contending for the last 3 spots.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's early. Habs and Caps look good. Tampa is the best team in the East.

Tier 1 - Tampa/Rangers
Tier 2 - Caps/Habs
Tier 3 - Isles

Then it's a crapshoot from there with about 6 teams contending for the last 3 spots.

I think our D is trending down and pretty significantly. I want to believe that it's still early, but I'm starting to think that we're in the next tier after Tampa, Montreal, and Washington.

 

[GOAT AINEC]

I'm very happy we have Allaire, but he didn't create Raanta. The Finns have a knack for churning out quality goalies. Raanta also had great numbers with the Hawks last year. .936 SV% and 1.89 GAA.

Acquiring Raanta was a great move by Gorton. We knew what we were getting. Allaire can probably work out any kinks Raanta has in his game, but to imply that Allaire is responsible for Raanta's play thus far is pushing it.

It's also that our defense can be really good when they want to be.

Talbot played very well for us and has been average at best for the Oilers.

 

[ltsthinaz]

It's early. Habs and Caps look good. Tampa is the best team in the East.

Tier 1 - Tampa/Rangers
Tier 2 - Caps/Habs
Tier 3 - Isles

Then it's a crapshoot from there with about 6 teams contending for the last 3 spots.

Sort of my point - we are going to be in the playoffs and there is plenty of time to get the defense in shape and for Nash/Kreider to get moving.

We'll be buyers come March, and this team (with a 4th line and minus Tanner Glass) is MUCH deeper and potentially better than the last two years, especially if we don't wear out Lundqvist.

What I was saying is that even though it is still October, probably 5 of the 16 teams in the East have no shot at the playoffs.

 

[ltsthinaz]

It's early. Habs and Caps look good. Tampa is the best team in the East.

Tier 1 - Tampa/Rangers
Tier 2 - Caps/Habs
Tier 3 - Isles

Then it's a crapshoot from there with about 6 teams contending for the last 3 spots.

Caps are 1st tier if their goalie holds up.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Sort of my point - we are going to be in the playoffs and there is plenty of time to get the defense in shape and for Nash/Kreider to get moving.

We'll be buyers come March, and this team (with a 4th line and minus Tanner Glass) is MUCH deeper and potentially better than the last two years, especially if we don't wear out Lundqvist.

What I was saying is that even though it is still October, probably 5 of the 16 teams in the East have no shot at the playoffs.

We might have better depth up front, but we need Nash and Kreider to get going and there's no guarantee they will. Also, I think our D has steadily taken a step back the last three years.

 

[Revel]

It's also that our defense can be really good when they want to be.

Yeah, that's true, too. The Rangers tend to play better defensively when the backup is in net. Lundqvist is forced to play like God when it's his turn. It's like his teammates are jealous of his paycheck and want to make sure he earns it.

 

[nyrleetch]

It's also that our defense can be really good when they want to be.

Talbot played very well for us and has been average at best for the Oilers.

This can't be true. Talbot+Cap Space!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yeah, that's true, too. The Rangers tend to play better defensively when the backup is in net. Lundqvist is forced to play like God when it's his turn. It's like his teammates are jealous of his paycheck and want to make sure he earns it.

Or they play the backups in favorable matchups.

 

[nyrleetch]

Or they play the backups in favorable matchups.

Combo of both i'd say.

 

[Revel]

Or they play the backups in favorable matchups.

Possibly, but I think it's more of a back-to-back games thing. We can't even beat the Devils with Hank in net.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Possibly, but I think it's more of a back-to-back games thing. We can't even beat the Devils with Hank in net.

But I don't remember us giving him an especially difficult night against the Devils.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Is it just me or is Raanta stylistically very similar to Talbot. I realize they have the same goalie coach, but Lundqvist is quite different, though it's Lundqvist.

I think Raanta has to be a bit quicker with his movements and on his angles because he's a smaller goalie than Talbot (6'3 - 6'0). He's a bit more scrambley and athletic to me, but there are similarities. I saw a bit of Raanta during his time with Chicago, I always like to watch their games when I can, he seems a bit more in control in these two games, not as much wasted movements and his positioning is very good. He used to have a tendency to overplay a shooter and rely on his athleticism to make up when he needed to, now I see him being more patient, as we all know a hallmark of Allaire goalies.

I really like what I see from him.

 

[SA16]

That's the thing. His shots stink. I'd be more hopeful if he is a goal scorer that can locate and place the puck.

He can't one time. He can't elevate the puck. He doesn't get much power behind his shots.

He scored 40 last year because he came in insane shape and mental determination.

He looks out of shape and not confident. Meaning, he's a step behind what he needs to be to perform the move he wants to perform and he's also playing with meek acceptance.

I'm not encouraged.

It is funny how things change.

In the preseason all the coaches and writers would tell you is how great shape Nash is in and it's the best of his career.

Now he starts the season not scoring and he's in bad shape. Good consistent logic.

Additionally you severely undervalue the quality of his shots. League average defenseman shooting percentage last year was 5.1%. Those are mostly on long shots from the point that have little hope of going in. Nash's shooting percentage this year is 0 on 31 shots (excluding the ENG). The shots Nash takes on average are much much better than defenseman (he's ~12% the last 3 years). No matter how low quality Nash's shots are they will always be better than a defensemans average just due to the nature of the position.

Muffins, cream puffs and flubs.

Some say taking shots. I say, for a guy his size and with his abilty, wheres.the lethal wrister ?

Too many limp noodles for me.

Does anyone do less with more ?

I have no idea why you would expect the "lethal wrister" when that never has been his game before.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It is funny how things change.

In the preseason all the coaches and writers would tell you is how great shape Nash is in and it's the best of his career.

Now he starts the season not scoring and he's in bad shape. Good consistent logic.

Additionally you severely undervalue the quality of his shots. League average defenseman shooting percentage last year was 5.1%. Those are mostly on long shots from the point that have little hope of going in. Nash's shooting percentage this year is 0 on 31 shots (excluding the ENG). The shots Nash takes on average are much much better than defenseman (he's ~12% the last 3 years). No matter how low quality Nash's shots are they will always be better than a defensemans average just due to the nature of the position.


I have no idea why you would expect the "lethal wrister" when that never has been his game before.

I don't know. Give me a guy with a cannon that takes a shot from the point with traffic in front over trying to place weak wrist shots and failing by Nash.

 

[SA16]

One interesting thing about this game: The 4th line got 0% offensive zone starts and all had a positive CF%. Pretty good performance by them. Etem was pretty dangerous and looked much better than in other games.

 

[Revel]

But I don't remember us giving him an especially difficult night against the Devils.

Perhaps a bad example on my part. That game would have shown our offensive ineptness while Hank in is net, not Defensive.

I should have used the most recent example of throwing Hank to the wolves. Allowing the Flyers to put nearly 50 shots on Hank.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Perhaps a bad example on my part. That game would have shown our offensive ineptness while Hank in is net, not Defensive.

I should have used the most recent example of throwing Hank to the wolves. Allowing the Flyers to put nearly 50 shots on Hank.

Well, the Flyers have a good offense and I still am very very worried about our defense. I feel like we got carried away in playing a wide open style.

 

[Revel]

The Flyers haven't scored much this year. If you take away their 5 goal game vs. Boston, they've scored 11 goals this season. Not xactly an offensive juggernaut.

I'm worried about our defense, too. I'm only happy with 2 of the 6 so far. The highest paid guys are bringing the least game.