Pre-Game Talk: 10/25 vs Washington

[AVE MAN]

Hey if the Oilers were in rebuild mode then I would agree. Play Puljarvi and wait for him to get some confidence. If the Oilers were division champs or have a playoff spot locked up, I would say the same thing. Unfortunately, the Oilers don't have the luxury to wait for Puljarvi or any other player.
If you're going good, you play, if not, you sit. It cant be any other way.

 

[Soundwave]

So Talbot starts again or what?

 

[K1984]

Let's stop blaming this on the coach. Puljujarvi flat out sucks.

He's got a long way to go.

Reminds me of the Yakupov narrative all over again.

“He just needs confidence! He needs to be in the top 6! It’s because he doesn’t speak English well! It’s because he’s European!”

Fact of the matter is when you’re only good one out of every 6-7 games and you contribute zero to other parts of the game other than scoring (and are a detriment defensively) you aren’t going to get any minutes. Simple as that. He got his look in the top 6 for three games and didn’t do anything with it.

I’m cheering for him (and I think he’s much more talented than Yakupov), but he has to demonstrate some ability to be a positive factor in more than one off situations to earn minutes.

 

[joestevens29]

I asked Todd McLellan how a coach balances trying to develop a young player and winning. He didn’t answer directly and talked about different scenarios, but did say Puljujarvi is no different than most other players. Or course there are some exceptions, but for those who haven’t established themselves as regular, everyday NHL players, regardless of draft status, the ones who play well will stay in lineup, and those who struggle might take a seat.

GDB 8.0: Parade of Champions (7pm MT, SN1)



Has Talbot listed as starter as well

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Hey if the Oilers were in rebuild mode then I would agree. Play Puljarvi and wait for him to get some confidence. If the Oilers were division champs or have a playoff spot locked up, I would say the same thing. Unfortunately, the Oilers don't have the luxury to wait for Puljarvi or any other player.
If you're going good, you play, if not, you sit. It cant be any other way.

I'm not saying gift Puljujarvi or any other player a tonne of ice-time, but you can utilize a player more to their strengths. And doing that now will pay dividends later in the year, hell maybe 5 games from now. Besides McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge which forwards are producing? He's good on the defensive side of the puck so what is there to lose?

I don't see signs that Lucic, Strome or Rieder are going to take off offensively, and Rattie's hurt. Yamo's playing good and I could see goals starting to go in for him, so I'm fine with his deployment. It's when Todd puts the 4th line out for the last 20 seconds of a powerplay or puts Strome out there 4 on 4 when other skill guys are rested that makes me shake my head.

 

[blue_n_copper]

Viveiros was supposed to be the PP coach, yet its evident he's not. WTF was the point of hiring him then? Good ol McLellan's boy Woodcroft having to take the blame for McLellan's garbage PP for another year in a row.

Is this a good time to mention that our "garbage" power play is currently 5th in the league at 30.4% efficiency?

 

[TheNumber4]

Everyone's got their theories on Pulju:
- "He needs to be brought up, he's wasting away in the AHL" - Well, we tried that.
- "He needs to play Top 6 minutes, were wasting him in the bottom 6" - Well, we tried that.
- "He needs to drive his own line in the bottom 6" - Well, we tried that.
- "He just needs confidence" - Well, he should have had confidence after that preseason game where he looked phenomonal, then he still disappeared the 2 games after
- "He needs to play with McDavid" - Well, we tried that also.

I dunno what else should be tried. But I'm tired of making theories as to why he isn't working out like we hoped. The only theory that remains after all these different scenarios is the one I'm worried about. Just a lack of hockey IQ.

 

[Duke74]

Now do it for Yama and/or Lucic with an without Draisaitl and be amazed.
Fact: Drai only looks good with McDavid and drags everyone else down.

That's completely wrong. He looked good with a variety of different wingers last year, including Cagguila, Aberg, and Cammelleri, who aren't exactly top-six material. Last game he looked good with Rieder and Chaisson. Way to derail a thread with your Draisaitl hate.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He scored his only NHL goal on the 3rd line, he played 2 games there before being bumped up to the 1st line (deservedly so) because of strong 2 way play although with Mclellan's constant line shuffling, no line has had appreciable time together.

I don't agree at all with any of what you're saying about his game, although yes he did have a few rough shifts against Nashville as everybody did. His game hasn't been perfect but he's making a lot of great subtle plays that you usually praise players for, you usually have a good eye for the little plays made in all zones. Kid is playing with confidence IMO, getting better and better with each game. He made a boatload of nice defensive reads in the Pens game including the obvious one where he drew the penalty after poking the puck out of the D zone.

I wish there was a shift by shift video of his the last few games so you can see what I'm seeing because I bet that you'd change your mind if you watched it.

As far as Pulju is concerned, he needs to be a lot better. I'm really disappointed that he wasn't able to build on that performance in the Winnipeg game, it's always one step forward five steps back with this player. He's still really young but I'd like to see more consistency with this being his 3rd NHL season and if anything, he's more inconsistent now than he was even in his rookie season. Part of that is on the coaches of course but he needs to start earning his keep. He's getting outplayed by lesser talented players this season, players he shouldn't be getting outplayed by.

I tend to key on players that are significant, consequential, influential, that actually matter. Yama was a desperation pick to try to fill some talent quotient on the roster due to multiple trades that eviscerated talent on the roster.

I continue to think the only reason the Oilers even wasted a top round pick on Yama was the Flames finding gold in a 4th round pick on Gaudreau. I can't see any other reason why we went for this low probabity chance of player. its important to note in this that Gaudreau is immensely better asset and prospect in every way and yet went 4th round.

So because a Chia formulated roster is completely desperate to find anything out of Yamamoto, and to keep forcing that I have to see a player on topsix that I would prefer was not here at all. To key on the player in question increases the frustration quotient about how much this plug is limiting our top lines.

Meanwhile, Pulju, who is an actual prospect with upside is scratched.

I'm so disgusted in McLellan I might not even watch the game.

 

[Arpeggio]

I don't mind if Puljujarvi plays on the third or fourth line consistently for a little bit. I think he could stand to be a bit more confident with the puck, and actually be the primary puck carrier. I think he should be put on the fourth line with Cagguila, which is probably where he'll be next time he gets in the lineup.

Loved Chiasson's game against the Pens, would definitely like to see him get an extended look in the top 6 with either Draisaitl or McDavid. Yamamoto has looked pretty good, but until he starts producing it's the same story as the first nine games from last season.

 

[Arpeggio]

I continue to think the only reason the Oilers even wasted a top round pick on Yama was the Flames finding gold in a 4th round pick on Gaudreau. I can't see any other reason why we went for this low probabity chance of player. its important to note in this that Gaudreau is immensely better asset and prospect in every way and yet went 4th round.

He scored 100 points in his draft year...

I mean feel free to dislike the player all you want, but to pretend he doesn't have pedigree is being intentionally obtuse.

 

[joestevens29]

I'm not saying gift Puljujarvi or any other player a tonne of ice-time, but you can utilize a player more to their strengths. And doing that now will pay dividends later in the year, hell maybe 5 games from now. Besides McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge which forwards are producing? He's good on the defensive side of the puck so what is there to lose?

I don't see signs that Lucic, Strome or Rieder are going to take off offensively, and Rattie's hurt. Yamo's playing good and I could see goals starting to go in for him, so I'm fine with his deployment. It's when Todd puts the 4th line out for the last 20 seconds of a powerplay or puts Strome out there 4 on 4 when other skill guys are rested that makes me shake my head.

Really? They've had some real solid games. Only a matter of time

 

[Paperbagofglory]

Is this a good time to mention that our "garbage" power play is currently 5th in the league at 30.4% efficiency?

If you really believe a Powerplay that's scored of Mcdavid magic is sustainable than i have some property to sell you in lovely death valley. Most of those goals came off rushes or bad defensive turnovers like last game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He scored 100 points in his draft year...

I mean feel free to dislike the player all you want, but to pretend he doesn't have pedigree is being intentionally obtuse.

he doesn't have sufficient skill to compensate for being an absolute runt by NHL standards. The only players in his weigh class that work out in NHL have way more skill than anything I'm seeing from Yamamoto.

hey maybe he lights it up in the AHL for the org some time. Frankly I'd prefer be elsewhere. He's a nothing pick.

he never hit 100 pts in junior either...

 

[CupofOil]

I tend to key on players that are significant, consequential, influential, that actually matter. Yama was a desperation pick to try to fill some talent quotient on the roster due to multiple trades that eviscerated talent on the roster.

I continue to think the only reason the Oilers even wasted a top round pick on Yama was the Flames finding gold in a 4th round pick on Gaudreau. I can't see any other reason why we went for this low probabity chance of player. its important to note in this that Gaudreau is immensely better asset and prospect in every way and yet went 4th round.

So because a Chia formulated roster is completely desperate to find anything out of Yamamoto, and to keep forcing that I have to see a player on topsix that I would prefer was not here at all. To key on the player in question increases the frustration quotient about how much this plug is limiting our top lines.

Meanwhile, Pulju, who is an actual prospect with upside is scratched.

I'm so disgusted in McLellan I might not even watch the game.

With all due respect, I'll just bow out because I don't even know how to respond to a post like this.
Agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Mr Positive]

Scratching JP could be okay, since even if he missed some games he'd still play more than he would in Bakersfield. It's not a great sign though

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Reminds me of the Yakupov narrative all over again.

“He just needs confidence! He needs to be in the top 6! It’s because he doesn’t speak English well! It’s because he’s European!”

Fact of the matter is when you’re only good one out of every 6-7 games and you contribute zero to other parts of the game other than scoring (and are a detriment defensively) you aren’t going to get any minutes. Simple as that. He got his look in the top 6 for three games and didn’t do anything with it.

I’m cheering for him (and I think he’s much more talented than Yakupov), but he has to demonstrate some ability to be a positive factor in more than one off situations to earn minutes.

See, this narrative applied to Yakupov but it doesn't apply to Pulju. He's good defensively, the eye test and stats back this up. Also, if he was being played normally in the top 6 I would say he's getting a fair shot, but that's not the case. 12:46 against Boston (0:33 on PP), 14:20 against Nashville (1:56 on PP), 9:00 against Pittsburgh (0:57 on PP). Besides the Nashville game that's not really what I would call much time in the top 6.

Also, I don't think he has to play in the top 6 but he should be playing with skilled players (and used more as a shooter on PP2) and that limits the options on this team. Do you want a guy who can produce by himself even with plugs anywhere in the lineup? Sure, but that's not where he's at right now and nobody else is producing so why not give him an actual shot with other skilled players?

 

[Drivesaitl]

With all due respect, I'll just bow out because I don't even know how to respond to a post like this.
Agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Hey, we're scratching an actual legit prospect with upside, that can play in this league, in Pulju, and having a runt with not a chance of an NHL career on topline. Yeah I'm disgusted.

I guess I should be content watching Kailer try to do something out there. "Oh, but he tries" He's a nothing player at this level.

 

[K1984]

I just hope that the Puljujarvi debate doesn’t get predicated on “whatabboutisms” about other players similar to the Yakupov debates.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Lucic - 7 games - 1 goal
Yamamoto - 7 games (three on top line no less) - 1 goal
Rattie - 5 games - 1 goal
Puljujarvi - 7 games - 1 goal

JeSSe NeEDs tO bE aCCoUnTaBle

• Lucic has been providing a constant physical presence and honestly has been playing fairly good hockey, despite the lack of points. He absolutely deserves to be in the line-up. Amongst forwards he has the 4th most points on the team, with the top 3 being fairly self-evident.
• Yamo has drawn 5 penalties that's basically a free goals worth of penalties, plus he has some PK utility, and he seems to be soaking up what the coaches are teaching him.
• Rattie played less games and is injured so not really relevant, but he wins more puck battles than Pulju despite being smaller, and has 2 points in 5 games opposed to 1 point in 7 games.

Those other 3 have also been giving the team the best hockey they are capable of, you can't say the same for Pulju, his level of play is a far cry from that of what he was providing in pre-season. Even if the argument is he doesn't deserve to be sat based on points, there is no player on the team in greater need of a wake-up call.

At present I'm reminded of something Lowetide said when Gagner and Yakupov had their respective struggles. Is this a pro who has had 3 years of professional experience or one years worth of experience 3 times over. Speaks to whether or not we are seeing cumulative experience and development or stagnation.

 

[Digger12]

At present I'm reminded of something Lowetide said when Gagner and Yakupov had their respective struggles. Is this a pro who has had 3 years of professional experience or one years worth of experience 3 times over. Speaks to whether or not we are seeing cumulative experience and development or stagnation.

Pretty much, and one of Stauffer's guests (either May or Debrusk, can't remember who) said something similar about Pulju...is he any different a player from game 1 of his NHL career than he is after game 100?

In preseason he looked faster and more assertive, but once the real games started (and if we're being honest the last couple games of preseason were trending this way too) he reverted back to passive Jesse who plays like he doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

I tend to key on players that are significant, consequential, influential, that actually matter. Yama was a desperation pick to try to fill some talent quotient on the roster due to multiple trades that eviscerated talent on the roster.

I continue to think the only reason the Oilers even wasted a top round pick on Yama was the Flames finding gold in a 4th round pick on Gaudreau. I can't see any other reason why we went for this low probabity chance of player. its important to note in this that Gaudreau is immensely better asset and prospect in every way and yet went 4th round.

So because a Chia formulated roster is completely desperate to find anything out of Yamamoto, and to keep forcing that I have to see a player on topsix that I would prefer was not here at all. To key on the player in question increases the frustration quotient about how much this plug is limiting our top lines.

Meanwhile, Pulju, who is an actual prospect with upside is scratched.

I'm so disgusted in McLellan I might not even watch the game.

Sometimes when I read your post-game comments I wonder how much of the hockey game you actually watched. There are times where you say insightful things and other times I wonder if you are on the same planet as everyone else.

 

[Porkleaker]

Hey, we're scratching an actual legit prospect with upside, that can play in this league, in Pulju, and having a runt with not a chance of an NHL career on topline. Yeah I'm disgusted.

I guess I should be content watching Kailer try to do something out there. "Oh, but he tries" He's a nothing player at this level.

He just gets manhandled in any situation other than a breakaway or odd-man rush, I'll give him some props for not getting killed yet but I really don't see how he fits into the picture here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sometimes when I read your post-game comments I wonder how much of the hockey game you actually watched. There are times where you say insightful things and other times I wonder if you are on the same planet as everyone else.

You could be more specific. I was never sold on Yama as a pick and never interested in him. So clearly not in his camp, at all. I just see no use in the player.

having not seen Yama's Junior game (and not knowing it translates to NHL anyway due to his size and limited skill) I just don't see what he brings. Waste of spot player to me.

I don't get Yama, can't comprehend the excitement in him, admittedly, but he's not doing much to make me notice.

Is drawing a few penalties enough to show for constant topsix and now topline toi? He's the most inept forward that's been in our topsix this season of anybody.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Jesse needs to sack up out there, battle and work hard and the rest will come. Not just play well when playing against his WJC buddies teams.