GDT: 10/11/18 - 7:30PM EDT - Vancouver vs Tampa Bay

[DFC]

Gotta side with Hose on this one. Coop has done everything but win us a Cup and Stamkos has gone for the ride like a kid who won't get out of bed. I'll give him a pass for the blood clot but he is really a piece of work. Kucherov is frustrating as hell but he pulls it together for months. Killorn is frustrating as hell and then he is admittedly more comfortable in the playoffs. Stamkos? He just goes from frustrating as hell to frustrating

I think this is a little harsh. Mainly the "piece of work" thing. As critical as I am of Stamkos, I don't buy the idea that he doesn't care or is lazy or whatever. I think he's just had some crazily bad luck, never did have the highest hockey IQ, and we're just seeing a surprisingly early decline. He doesn't shoot the puck the way he used to. I don't mean "as often" as he used to, although that's true as well. But I think he's lost the ability to get his shot off before he looks set to shoot, which was a big factor in a lot of his early-career goals. He also doesn't go to dirty areas to score anymore, but that might be because he's lost a step; and that also seems to be a team-wide problem.

I think we've seen enough, over a long enough period, to say Stamkos is declining, or, at best, is a PP specialist. 5v5 he's more/less a decoy.

Another reason to separate him, and/or Point, easier matchups.

 

[DFC]

Serious question: what’s holding us back from healthy scratching Kuch for next game? And Stamkos for the game after if he continues to be terrible? Send a message, Coop. Show there are consequences. Demand discipline, effort and last but not least respect. Respect for the other players, the fans and well, yourself. That seat will be getting hot quickly if nothing changes soon. We have all the talent but the mindset is way off the rails right now.

I think Step 1 would be to bench Kuch for a period if the trend continues. I don't know that Cooper would do that. He's too much of a new age "players coach" sometimes, I think. Overall, I think that's needed, but every once in a while a little shot of Torts wouldn't hurt either, when needed.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah, but I mean, in general, there was a bit of a meltdown after that game with the Panthers, because we thought we'd been outplayed in the first game too, and we were coming off a season where we failed to make the playoffs. Then, if I remember correctly, we borderline dominated the Caps and were off to the races.

But I just mean, it's tough to judge two games. We've seen early bad habits stretch for most of a season (16/17), and then we've seen the team put those doubts to bed (17/18), at least until the playoffs came around.

I watched the Vancouver broadcast, and they really sold the goaltending performance on Vancouver's side, so I'm shrugging this one off a little more. To me, the first game, where we won, was more alarming, but I don't think those bad habits (reluctance to shoot) carried over all that much.

I'm not in the sky is falling camp, just trying to explain away our sometimes way too reactionary fanbase

 

[Rschmitz]

I think Step 1 would be to bench Kuch for a period if the trend continues. I don't know that Cooper would do that. He's too much of a new age "players coach" sometimes, I think. Overall, I think that's needed, but every once in a while a little shot of Torts wouldn't hurt either, when needed.

Yeah, scratching Kucherov is way overkill. A very unmeasured reaction that probably does more harm than good.

 

[These Are The Days]

Can anyone cite a time a player the caliber of a Stamkos and Kucherov was scratched or banished to the 4th line in order to send a message? If you want to potentially piss off the entire team and not in a good way that would certainly be the fastest way to do it.

God Torts had it out for Vinny almost 20 years ago and that was for a contract holdout. It feels somewhat unprecedented

 

[DFC]

Can anyone cite a time a player the caliber of a Stamkos and Kucherov was scratched or banished to the 4th line in order to send a message? If you want to potentially piss off the entire team and not in a good way that would certainly be the fastest way to do it.

God Torts had it out for Vinny almost 20 years ago and that was for a contract holdout. It feels somewhat unprecedented

A scratch would be. A benching wouldn't. Johanson, Kessel come to mind. It's too early for that, I think, but Kucherov's play warranted something like it. I'm sure he had worse games in his rookie year, but I can't remember one. That was embarrassingly bad.

Stamkos is a different case. This is just what he is and what he's been for quite some time. He needs somebody like Kucherov to be white hot in order to get white hot himself, at least at ES. So I don't think any sort of action is needed in Stammer's case. He is what he is, whereas, with Kucherov, he's playing miles and miles below his ability.