GDT: 10/11/18 - 7:30PM EDT - Vancouver vs Tampa Bay

[God King Fudge]

Again, this is not a 2 game issue. The effort consistency has been a problem for YEARS.

 

[DFC]

I think the PP has looked bad mainly because Kucherov, and, to a lesser extent, Stamkos, are way, way off. Kucherov was literally our worst player in that game. He looked worthy of a healthy scratch. And Stamkos wasn't a whole lot better. Cedric Paquette played a stronger game than both of them.

Having those two as the key guys on the PP is making it embarrassing. I don't know how they spent their summer, but Kucherov, in particular, can do nothing right at the moment. He had MAYBE one effective shift in the entire game.

Our depth guys have been pretty good, really. Paquette's still healthy, and he's always impressive when healthy. Cirelli picked up more/less where he left off. Even Adam Erne has had some moments.

But we're a team built on star power, and when the two biggest stars are liabilities, and that's exactly what they are right now, we're going to have a tough time overcoming that. Kucherov looks like he hasn't skated in 5 months and, in the meantime, forgot how to ****ing play hockey. Everything, both physically and mentally, looks off. And we depend a lot on him, particularly on the PP.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

I think the PP has looked bad mainly because Kucherov, and, to a lesser extent, Stamkos, are way, way off. Kucherov was literally our worst player in that game. He looked worthy of a healthy scratch. And Stamkos wasn't a whole lot better.

I remember thinking, after Kuch blindly handed the puck off to the Canucks player for an easy empty-netter, that he and Stammer both looked as though they could use a healthy scratch wake-up call.

 

[DFC]

I remember thinking, after Kuch blindly handed the puck off to the Canucks player for an easy empty-netter, that he and Stammer both looked as though they could use a healthy scratch wake-up call.

Kucherov was so bad that, at times, it literally looked like he was on some kind of opiate. He wasn't processing the game at the speed it was actually coming at him. I don't know if he's out of shape or just lazy or what, but if he doesn't get back to his usual self, we're pretty much ****ed. With Stamkos's decline, everything runs through Kuch.

 

[NiceGuyDrP]

This is the lines I want to see.

Palat - Johnson - Kuch
Stammer - Point - Miller
Gourde - Cirelli - Joseph
Killorn - Paquette - Erne

I think this is very close to ideal... by the end of the year and with more experience, I would like to see this:

Stammer - Point - Kucherov (load up best offensive weapons with best 2-way C)
Palat - Johnson - Joseph (new triplets, Joseph is going to be a stud)
Gourde - Cirelli - Miller (lots of offense, Gourde can make up for Miller's D)
Killorn - Paquette - Erne (solid 4th line)

 

[Todd1a]

Also, I'm tired of seeing line combos. There's only so many ways to combine **** with it still looking like ****. If I combine diarrhea and vomit with urine and rearrange them multiple ways, I'm still going to end up with something unpleasant. He can put whoever with whoever, it's not the problem. The system and awakening these guys from their spirits or egos IS the problem.

The fact that Mathieu Joseph (save Vasy) has looked like our best player in the first two games on a team with Point, Kucherov, Hedman, Stamkos, etc is damning.

I agree why did we pay J.T. Miller to play with Erne and ceddy on the fourth line.

 

[Steely Van]

If Canucks Goalie didn't stand on his head Tampa Bay would have blown out the Canucks 9 out of 10 times. Tampa Bay fans are being way too hard on their team.

 

[Rschmitz]

If Canucks Goalie didn't stand on his head Tampa Bay would have blown out the Canucks 9 out of 10 times. Tampa Bay fans are being way too hard on their team.

Thank you for that perspective. Tampa Bay fans are being harder on their team because our expectations are higher, and the last time we seen play like this to start the year we missed the playoffs.

 

[DFC]

Thank you for that perspective. Tampa Bay fans are being harder on their team because our expectations are higher, and the last time we seen play like this to start the year we missed the playoffs.

Nah, we did start this way last year too, and did fine. We freaked out over a Florida game. I'm not ringing alarm bells or anything. The only thing that's truly concerning at this point, so early, is I can't remember the last time Kuch played so bad in back to back games. And he didn't exactly finish off last year on a hot streak.

 

[Stormbreaker]

Last year's second game of the year against the Panthers was absolutely brutal to watch. Let's see how they look on Saturday.

 

[Master P]

Last year's second game of the year against the Panthers was absolutely brutal to watch. Let's see how they look on Saturday.

Yeah, I do remember that being pretty terrible. Lets hope the triplets ate together and Stammer is with Point.

 

[PaulGG]

It was better than first game even though we blew it at the end. The Canuck goalie was good and also very lucky. We will win most of them when we dominate early and have all those PP.

 

[MattM92]

That effort from Kucherov reminded me of the effort from St. Louis just before Boucher got canned.

Been saying it for a long time and I still firmly believe it:

This roster needs a new voice. A new philosophy. We look very stale.

 

[Sky04]

It was better than first game even though we blew it at the end. The Canuck goalie was good and also very lucky. We will win most of them when we dominate early and have all those PP.

How was he lucky? Show me one golden chance we had where he "lucked out"? We had very few high scoring chances, you're not going to win pelting shots from the perimeter, if anything we were lucky to get a goal with that puck bouncing right to Point. This team hasn't scored a goal on a clean shot in awhile.

 

[RegularSznAllStars]

That effort from Kucherov reminded me of the effort from St. Louis just before Boucher got canned.

Been saying it for a long time and I still firmly believe it:

This roster needs a new voice. A new philosophy. We look very stale.

Whole team was dogging it before Boucher got canned. I remember watching Purcell after he was fired and thinking, “holy shit, this guy has been intentionally phoning it in,” because there was such an effort difference.

 

[MattM92]

The team might have been playing like shit, but you knew it was the end when St. Louis was dogging it on the ice.

 

[HoseEmDown]

That effort from Kucherov reminded me of the effort from St. Louis just before Boucher got canned.

Been saying it for a long time and I still firmly believe it:

This roster needs a new voice. A new philosophy. We look very stale.

You don't think that voice falls on the captain any? Stamkos seems like a nice guy but the dude just doesn't strike me as a winner, he doesn't have that passion or fire in him. So when the teams struggling he's probably in the room giving the old rah rah speech instead of lighting a fire under their asses.

 

[God King Fudge]

You don't think that voice falls on the captain any? Stamkos seems like a nice guy but the dude just doesn't strike me as a winner, he doesn't have that passion or fire in him. So when the teams struggling he's probably in the room giving the old rah rah speech instead of lighting a fire under their asses.

Of course some of it falls on Stamkos. TBH, a lot of it falls on the players. These guys are paid very well to go out there and do their job.

At the end of the day though, it's Coopers job to get the best from his players. He's not doing that. It's a hell of a lot easier to replace a coach than it is to replace Steven Stamkos for logistics alone.

Having said all that, I think he still has time but if the poor play continues, his seat gets that much hotter every game.

 

[Rschmitz]

Nah, we did start this way last year too, and did fine. We freaked out over a Florida game. I'm not ringing alarm bells or anything. The only thing that's truly concerning at this point, so early, is I can't remember the last time Kuch played so bad in back to back games. And he didn't exactly finish off last year on a hot streak.

Actually, I was very optimistic last year to start. Vasy was my main concern to start the year and he played excellent despite some unfavorable scoring chances the first two games.

 

[MattM92]

You don't think that voice falls on the captain any? Stamkos seems like a nice guy but the dude just doesn't strike me as a winner, he doesn't have that passion or fire in him. So when the teams struggling he's probably in the room giving the old rah rah speech instead of lighting a fire under their asses.

Of course some of the blame falls on the players, but the philosophy of the team comes from the coach. Also, as Post said, by far the easiest and by far the most effective way to change the culture of a team is to change the coach.

 

[DFC]

Actually, I was very optimistic last year to start. Vasy was my main concern to start the year and he played excellent despite some unfavorable scoring chances the first two games.

Yeah, but I mean, in general, there was a bit of a meltdown after that game with the Panthers, because we thought we'd been outplayed in the first game too, and we were coming off a season where we failed to make the playoffs. Then, if I remember correctly, we borderline dominated the Caps and were off to the races.

But I just mean, it's tough to judge two games. We've seen early bad habits stretch for most of a season (16/17), and then we've seen the team put those doubts to bed (17/18), at least until the playoffs came around.

I watched the Vancouver broadcast, and they really sold the goaltending performance on Vancouver's side, so I'm shrugging this one off a little more. To me, the first game, where we won, was more alarming, but I don't think those bad habits (reluctance to shoot) carried over all that much.

 

[Todd1a]

That effort from Kucherov reminded me of the effort from St. Louis just before Boucher got canned.

Been saying it for a long time and I still firmly believe it:

This roster needs a new voice. A new philosophy. We look very stale.

Cooper has had a stale voice for a few years now last year we started hot because we missed the playoffs in 2017 and they were fired up! This year we are stale like 2017. Why do you replace every coach pretty much but cooper ?

 

[HoseEmDown]

Of course some of it falls on Stamkos. TBH, a lot of it falls on the players. These guys are paid very well to go out there and do their job.

At the end of the day though, it's Coopers job to get the best from his players. He's not doing that. It's a hell of a lot easier to replace a coach than it is to replace Steven Stamkos for logistics alone.

Having said all that, I think he still has time but if the poor play continues, his seat gets that much hotter every game.

I'm not that big a Cooper fan, don't like his player development, but he's gotten the team to the SCF or ECF 3 of the last 4 years. The team has been one of the highest scoring teams in the league and usually a highly seeded one. They've come up short in the end each time though, is that on the coach or players?

You watch Pittsburgh, Washington or Chicago and their captains are stepping up in the big moments, they're leading by example and firing up the players. Stamkos is at his worst in the playoffs and I never see him rallying the troops either. This isn't a one time thing either he has disappeared almost every time in the playoffs. San Jose changed theirs when the team got stale, LA did after they began to fall short.

I wouldn't be opposed to a coaching change if there was a legit candidate out there to replace Cooper I just don't see one yet. I would strip the C from Stamkos though and see what that does. We don't really have a great option to become C just yet either, Hedman doesn't strike me as a good one either, Point would be good but he's not an A yet and is young so not sure how the vets would take that. Either way I think Stamkos is as much a problem as Cooper.

 

[These Are The Days]

Gotta side with Hose on this one. Coop has done everything but win us a Cup and Stamkos has gone for the ride like a kid who won't get out of bed. I'll give him a pass for the blood clot but he is really a piece of work. Kucherov is frustrating as hell but he pulls it together for months. Killorn is frustrating as hell and then he is admittedly more comfortable in the playoffs. Stamkos? He just goes from frustrating as hell to frustrating

 

[LightningStrikes]

Serious question: what’s holding us back from healthy scratching Kuch for next game? And Stamkos for the game after if he continues to be terrible? Send a message, Coop. Show there are consequences. Demand discipline, effort and last but not least respect. Respect for the other players, the fans and well, yourself. That seat will be getting hot quickly if nothing changes soon. We have all the talent but the mindset is way off the rails right now.