Value of: #1 Goalie(Vezina Candidate) and #1 Defenseman(Norris Candidate) to Edmonton?

[didimentionlarseller]

Price for RNH

then just go find a Dman

 

[Jay haller]

Preface, I did say "rare" not "this has never happened ever"

Chicago trio - Crawford's not (and was never) a Vezina caliber goaltender, he was 5th in voting once

LA - Kopitar is not a Hart level player (though he's very good). McDavid is better, and considerably more expensive which is going to hurt Edm's ability to supplement him

Boston - using one guy for two trophies that he's never been close to winning is a bit of a stretch, no?

Tampa - that's close, one of the rare scenarios that it's happened. Stamkos took less than he would have got as a UFA to stay there to let the team sign some of the talent around him, McDavid's contract again will make that more difficult

Pittsburgh trio - Letang is not a Norris caliber defenseman, Fleury is not a Vezina caliber goalie (he came in 7th and 8th in voting in his best years)

you should also take note that every player that you've referenced was drafted by the team that you're saying had one of those trios, should give you an indication of how hard this is going to be to find by trade

Fleury and Crawford can’t read these their 5 possibly 6 combined cups are blinding them.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Bobrovsky+Dubinsky+1st for Draisaitl+Talbot

 

[CF84]

So an impossible trade then. No way Edmonton deals McDavid. He will retire an Oiler.

McDavid will not retire an Oiler.

 

[member 147413]

Uhh... even though Vasilevsky is one of the best valued goalies, that’s not even close for McDavid.

Talbot + McDavid + Nurse

for

Hedman + Kucherov + Vasi + Stralman

That would destroy HFboards

 

[waitin425]

Price + Weber

For

Drai + Lucic + 10th

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Price + Weber

For

Drai + Lucic + 10th

Crazy, Price and Weber have zero value at best due to their contracts.

It would have to be Weber and Price at 50% retained and Lucic, Sekera, Russell going the other way.

 

[waitin425]

Crazy, Price and Weber have zero value at best due to their contracts.

It would have to be Weber and Price at 50% retained and Lucic, Sekera, Russell going the other way.

I’m crazy? What the hell is this? Lol

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Why think so small? How about also ask for a top line Rocket Richard winning winger while you're at it?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Fleury and Crawford can’t read these their 5 possibly 6 combined cups are blinding them.

maybe they can look through the slot in their trophy cases where their vezinas are supposed to be?

wasn't supposed to be a criticism of either goalie, OP asked for a Norris caliber defenseman and a Vezina caliber goalie, I pointed out how rare it is to have both of those things plus a Hart level forward on one team, another poster quoted me citing a bunch of trios of guys to try to prove me wrong that didn't have all 3, I replied back pointing out that only one of the teams he cited actually had all 3, and here we are.

That should also serve as evidence that you don't need all 3 to win a cup, the Oilers can build a team around McDavid with really good players who are not at the level that they're competing to be the best at their position in the league and that team can still contend for cups

 

[Mackiaveli]

Edmonton obviously missing these two key pieces needed to contend for the cup, what gets this done?

There are only a few teams with both a Vezina caliber goaltender, and a Norris caliber D-Man --- in the case of Edmonton, you guys want a RD specifically, making it even harder.

The only team I can think of (regardless of homer bias) with BOTH, that would be capable/willing to move them, is Montreal.

Regardless of the value of Price or Weber in terms of salary and contributions, their value to a franchise is immense. Weber is known for being one of the hardest players in the league to play against, and is a great leader both on and off the ice (there's a reason he wore letters for Team Canada). Price shows up when it matters; and is a goalie who can steal games --- he would make Edmonton a cup threat immediately.

The issue comes with moving both of them at the same time; the return would have to be big. Obviously Edmonton has no desire to move RNH or Draisaitl, it makes no sense to ADD a defenseman just to remove one of the top 4 (Larsson/Klefbom/Nurse) and I don't think any package of anything in the league gets you McDavid short of something astronomical and impossible (think Nylander/Matthews/Marner for McDavid) so what I would propose:

Oilers 2018 1st (10th overall)
Oilers 2019 1st
Puljujarvi
Kailer Yamamoto
Ethan Bear
Kris Russell
Milan Lucic

The Oilers don't move any of their biggest pieces, and free themselves of 10m in cap + Puljujarvi's new deal which puts them in a bit of a deficit still, but they add an elite goaltender and a stay at home RD to compete now.

With a core 4 on D, an elite goaltender, and McDavid/Draisaitl as their 1-2 punch, they would have one of the most dynamic rosters to compete with for the near future.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Crazy, Price and Weber have zero value at best due to their contracts.

If the Habs make the playoffs next year, both players remain healthy, and Price posts a .920+ Sv% and a GAA lower than 2.5, and Weber pots 40+ points, pretty sure everyone on these boards would still say they have zero value.

HFBoards fans are infamous for three things:

1. valuating players solely on their contracts
2. over-valuing prospects
3. under-valuing rentals.

And the fourth thing, which isn't exclusive to HFBoards but more or less anyone who doesn't really understand business; the value of a player to a franchise far exceeds their play sometimes. Toronto would probably not consider moving Matthews for McDavid; simply because of the value Matthews has to the franchise. He sold more jerseys than ANY other player in the ENTIRE league this year, making Toronto a ton of money in the process.

Likewise, I don't think Pittsburgh would have traded Crosby for McDavid, regardless of value (obviously I'd rather rookie McDavid than 30+ year old Crosby) because Crosby's invaluable to their franchise.

Being able to pick up players like Weber and Price go a long way for both on-ice, and off-ice benefits for franchises as teams and businesses --- so long as what is leaving makes sense. Weber was a bit of a nightmare for us because the Habs traded the most beloved (also just the most polarizing) player that has worn the CH since Saku Koivu --- it was a bad look.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Get ready to give up Puljujarvi.

 

[Jay haller]

maybe they can look through the slot in their trophy cases where their vezinas are supposed to be?

wasn't supposed to be a criticism of either goalie, OP asked for a Norris caliber defenseman and a Vezina caliber goalie, I pointed out how rare it is to have both of those things plus a Hart level forward on one team, another poster quoted me citing a bunch of trios of guys to try to prove me wrong that didn't have all 3, I replied back pointing out that only one of the teams he cited actually had all 3, and here we are.

That should also serve as evidence that you don't need all 3 to win a cup, the Oilers can build a team around McDavid with really good players who are not at the level that they're competing to be the best at their position in the league and that team can still contend for cups

It’s silly, fleury might be getting his fourth ring whilst being the likely conn smythe if Vegas wins and crawford has two probably deserved the smythe when Kane won his.

But neither are elite because they don’t have vezina nods like Devan Dubnyk aka a guy who has never gotten past the second round.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Why is this thread still open

 

[Randy Randerson]

It’s silly, fleury might be getting his fourth ring whilst being the likely conn smythe if Vegas wins and crawford has two probably deserved the smythe when Kane won his.

But neither are elite because they don’t have vezina nods like Devan Dubnyk aka a guy who has never gotten past the second round.

Sure, I think we're on the same page here, I said flat out that a Norris level dman and a Vezina level goalie aren't necessary for a team that's built around a Hart level center. It was the OP that was asking for those things. The Oilers can definitely take a "good enough" approach to goaltending and defense, they were a much better team than their record indicated this year and they'll be back to the playoffs plenty

by the same token I don't think that Fleury or Crawford are the level of player that can be the foundation for their team, they could certainly steal a cup by that's why there's a separate trophy for playoff performance, to recognize exceptional playoff performance.

 

[Jay haller]

Sure, I think we're on the same page here, I said flat out that a Norris level dman and a Vezina level goalie aren't necessary for a team that's built around a Hart level center. It was the OP that was asking for those things. The Oilers can definitely take a "good enough" approach to goaltending and defense, they were a much better team than their record indicated this year and they'll be back to the playoffs plenty

by the same token I don't think that Fleury or Crawford are the level of player that can be the foundation for their team, they could certainly steal a cup by that's why there's a separate trophy for playoff performance, to recognize exceptional playoff performance.

Except as we saw the hawks this year the hawks without Crawford were a bottom 5 team this year. And again it’s looking like fleury is the rock that the knights are leaning on.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Except as we saw the hawks this year the hawks without Crawford were a bottom 5 team this year. And again it’s looking like fleury is the rock that the knights are leaning on.

you don't think that Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Sharp & Saad having down years after losing Panarin had something to do with the Hawks being bad, or Karlsson, Marchessault, Perron, Smith, Haula, Miller & Schmidt having career years had anything to do with the Knights being good (While Fleury missed the first half of the season, no less)

teams being good or bad don't boil down to a single guy

 

[TSN Jdog]

Draisaitl
Sekera
Yamamoto
Puljujarvi

Werenski
Bob

 

[Oilwings]

Carlson and Holtby from Washington .

Would love Holtby trade and a Carlson signing.

Talbot and Sekera/Russel for Holtby? Just take Sekera/Russel or both off us! Gives Washington a reliable dman for the loss of Carlson.

 

[DFF]

Edmonton obviously missing these two key pieces needed to contend for the cup, what gets this done?

Have the Oilers decided to trade McDavid already?

Cause that is the only way they can get a Vezina goalie and a Norris dman

 

[DFF]

Would love Holtby trade and a Carlson signing.

Talbot and Sekera/Russel for Holtby? Just take Sekera/Russel or both off us! Gives Washington a reliable dman for the loss of Carlson.

So the Caps decided to downgrade their goalie and pick up a cap dump along with it? smart.

 

[DrJustice]

Are you interested in a Monkey's Paw type situation where Chara and Rask are traded for Draisaitl?

Be careful what you wish for

 

[JuniorNelson]

Trading for Weber and Price would be a bold financial move but sound in hockey terms. Weber and Price as role models would be a significant asset. A goalie just taught his team how to win a Cup! It's key.

 

[yababy]

McDavid will not retire an Oiler.

I'll go one better. After 5 years of playoff failures, Oilers auction off Mcdavid to the highest bidder.
At that point he's worth about 59% of current value