GDT: 1/4/15 "Hey, Remember That 20 Round Shootout?" - Panthers VS Capitals

[gudzilla]

So what does it matter if they're not on his line?

you get to learn from far superior players, they're around you to help you learn the craft. i mean, look at Ekblad, who teaches him how to shoot? Campbell? Gudbranson? Kulikov? hell, mitchell?

or you look at someone like giroux that can teach you A LOT of stuff in practice.

its also easier to perform on a good tema when you're not thrown at the wolves, even if couts have been

 

[Laus723]

my biggest issue with Huberdeau is actually his shot. It's terrible.

Not only is it not hard, not accurate, but it also takes him forever to get away.

No one respects his shot. they know he's going to try to dangle, and as good as his hands are, a one-trick pony doesn't work in the nhl.

If defensmen had to respect his shot, they'd have to play him differently in various situations, opening up room for him.

He's got one of the worst shots on the team. It's soft, only one who might shoot softer is Campbell.

It's inaccurate. He either misses the net by a mile or shoots it right into the goalies chest.

and it takes him forever to release. that's the trifecta of a non-goal scorer.

He has great hands, and great vision. Plenty of players have success with Huberdeau-type speed if they can shoot. But he can't.

there's only one slow, terrible shooter that I can remember that has carved himself a long, successful NHL career and that's Mike Ribeiro.

He needs to improve his shot, drastically. Even if it was mediocre it would open up alot of options for him.

While I think 'confidence' is an overused and slightly misunderstood term, it does seem that he's lacking it. He's played better with Bjugstad, but he still isn't what he should be.

Can you explain your avatar?

 

[Android 16]

my biggest issue with Huberdeau is actually his shot. It's terrible.

Not only is it not hard, not accurate, but it also takes him forever to get away.

No one respects his shot. they know he's going to try to dangle, and as good as his hands are, a one-trick pony doesn't work in the nhl.

If defensmen had to respect his shot, they'd have to play him differently in various situations, opening up room for him.

He's got one of the worst shots on the team. It's soft, only one who might shoot softer is Campbell.

It's inaccurate. He either misses the net by a mile or shoots it right into the goalies chest.

and it takes him forever to release. that's the trifecta of a non-goal scorer.

He has great hands, and great vision. Plenty of players have success with Huberdeau-type speed if they can shoot. But he can't.

there's only one slow, terrible shooter that I can remember that has carved himself a long, successful NHL career and that's Mike Ribeiro.

He needs to improve his shot, drastically. Even if it was mediocre it would open up alot of options for him.

It's really sad to sit here and compare junior hockey, Jonathan Huberdeau to NHL-pro, Jonathan Huberdeau. The two players are completely different. Pretty much nothing converted to NHL to this point. Absolutely nothing. No dangles, no dekes, no speed burst, no shot, nothing. The only thing that converted, I guess is his vision. But even his vision is pretty average at the NHL level.

 

[FrolikFan67]

hes not a very dynamic player at all either. slow acceleration, slow lousy strides. watching trocheck carrying the puck through the neutral zone, you can tell he's wayyy more dynamic, creative, and talented compared to huberdeau. trocheck is skilled, slippery, good hands, can work defenders off of him/create more time for himself, is faster. even if you don't get the 100% most optimal version of trocheck when on the wing versus the center, id still take trocheck as a winger every time over huberdeau. not just hating on huberdeau for no reason, its just true. its not even hating on him its just watching him play and stating what i see, he's just not that good. pretty below average actually. and i wouldnt say he was rushed. he played the following season in the Q after getting drafted, was injured so didnt play the whole season but was still there, then started there again the following season with the shortened season. he's in his 3rd year now and has been playing top-6 to 1st line minutes and still doesn't get it done, i don't know what people are expecting from him.

 

[MintyFresh88]

hes not a very dynamic player at all either. slow acceleration, slow lousy strides. watching trocheck carrying the puck through the neutral zone, you can tell he's wayyy more dynamic, creative, and talented compared to huberdeau. trocheck is skilled, slippery, good hands, can work defenders off of him/create more time for himself, is faster. even if you don't get the 100% most optimal version of trocheck when on the wing versus the center, id still take trocheck as a winger every time over huberdeau. not just hating on huberdeau for no reason, its just true. its not even hating on him its just watching him play and stating what i see, he's just not that good. pretty below average actually. and i wouldnt say he was rushed. he played the following season in the Q after getting drafted, was injured so didnt play the whole season but was still there, then started there again the following season with the shortened season. he's in his 3rd year now and has been playing top-6 to 1st line minutes and still doesn't get it done, i don't know what people are expecting from him.

I would agree with this. Very concerning, very frustrating. Is he only going to end up being a 40 point guy? Don't really understand what happened, but I had hoped/expected him to be minimum 20g 40a guy going forward. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Android 16]

Forget whether he deserved it or not, but think about it Huberdeau had experience in the AHL before he ever set foot in the NHL.. Would it have made any difference in any aspect of his development? Also, I blame Bill Lindsay for dubbing him a "superstar in this league for years and years" after seeing him in a shortened season.

 

[FrolikFan67]

Forget whether he deserved it or not, but think about it Huberdeau had experience in the AHL before he ever set foot in the NHL.. Would it have made any difference in any aspect of his development? Also, I blame Bill Lindsay for dubbing him a "superstar in this league for years and years" after seeing him in a shortened season.

maybe a little. but it still wouldnt have helped his skating or his shot. maybe help him to adapt to playing against bigger and faster guys, but his tools would still be lacking most likely.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Well, I thought Huberdeau did some good things last night. Did no one notice his stick handling against the boards last night in the third period? He made plenty of good passes to set up teammates who usually did nothing with it, or missed the net with a shot.
And he does have skill. He has shown it. He has great hands, but his low confidence kills him. He knows he can't skate well and he makes it affect every part of his game instead of just letting effect one part of his game and just playing the game like he can.
Confidence is big issue for Huberdeau. And that's because of his youth, if he manages to work this issue out though, it will be done and over with.

 

[RainingRats]

hes not a very dynamic player at all either. slow acceleration, slow lousy strides. watching trocheck carrying the puck through the neutral zone, you can tell he's wayyy more dynamic, creative, and talented compared to huberdeau. trocheck is skilled, slippery, good hands, can work defenders off of him/create more time for himself, is faster. even if you don't get the 100% most optimal version of trocheck when on the wing versus the center, id still take trocheck as a winger every time over huberdeau. not just hating on huberdeau for no reason, its just true. its not even hating on him its just watching him play and stating what i see, he's just not that good. pretty below average actually. and i wouldnt say he was rushed. he played the following season in the Q after getting drafted, was injured so didnt play the whole season but was still there, then started there again the following season with the shortened season. he's in his 3rd year now and has been playing top-6 to 1st line minutes and still doesn't get it done, i don't know what people are expecting from him.

Really good analysis. The major issue with Hubs is footspeed. Same with Barkov. Look at the top 30 scorers in the NHL, they're all 100X better skaters than the both of these guys. When you look at Bjugstad you can see why his skating helps him score, whereas if he skated like Hubs or Barkov, would he have more than a few goals?

If Hubs or Barkov could skate as well as Trocheck or Bjugstad, we'd be cruising into the playoffs, possibly leading the division.

 

[Android 16]

Really good analysis. The major issue with Hubs is footspeed. Same with Barkov. Look at the top 30 scorers in the NHL, they're all 100X better skaters than the both of these guys. When you look at Bjugstad you can see why his skating helps him score, whereas if he skated like Hubs or Barkov, would he have more than a few goals?

If Hubs or Barkov could skate as well as Trocheck or Bjugstad, we'd be cruising into the playoffs, possibly leading the division.

Not only footspeed, but I would add shot to that list as well. Let's not dance around it, Huberdeau shoots the puck like a chick. At least most nights. Honestly, every time I see him shoot at the goal, I'm left thinking "um, what was that.." I wish his teammates had the gall to tell him that he shoots like a chick, so maybe he works on it over the offseason. Well, whatever he finishes the season with, 8 or 9 goals, heck maybe even 11 goals, he might notice.

 

[vendetta]

Huberdeau isn't even physically developed yet and has had 1 offseason to train properly.... his biggest issues (skating, shooting) are a direct result of this and will be the most dramatic and easiest improvements...

 

[IM Clutcm]

Huberdeau isn't even physically developed yet and has had 1 offseason to train properly.... his biggest issues (skating, shooting) are a direct result of this and will be the most dramatic and easiest improvements...

I've been thinking this, too. Once he is able to actually train his body for the rigors of an NHL season, we'll see a completely different player.

 

[Egblad]

Huberdeau in his rookie year looked a lot different than he has the last two seasons. He COULD deke, he wasn't extremely slow-- he was more of a spark plug similar to Trocheck. His Calder year was completely different than what we have seen lately. I don't think it is because of the shortened season. In a shortened season you don't stickhandle better and you don't skate better -- that doesn't make sense.

We know he played with a broken foot, but a foot heals. When was the hip surgery? Was that before or after his rookie campaign?

 

[Android 16]

Huberdeau isn't even physically developed yet and has had 1 offseason to train properly.... his biggest issues (skating, shooting) are a direct result of this and will be the most dramatic and easiest improvements...

No argument here. He still looks like a junior player.

 

[vendetta]

I've been thinking this, too. Once he is able to actually train his body for the rigors of an NHL season, we'll see a completely different player.

He's on a 40 point pace and looks a lot better than last year... I'm sure another off season of more specified training instead of just bulking and he will take another even larger step yet again... injuries physical maturity and proper training are vital for players his age... he has been derailed but I have no doubts he will be great.. his vision and passing is sick and the confidence will come with the rest...I'm not worried like the rest about him or barkov... not even close...

 

[IM Clutcm]

Huberdeau in his rookie year looked a lot different than he has the last two seasons. He COULD deke, he wasn't extremely slow-- he was more of a spark plug similar to Trocheck. His Calder year was completely different than what we have seen lately. I don't think it is because of the shortened season. In a shortened season you don't stickhandle better and you don't skate better -- that doesn't make sense.

We know he played with a broken foot, but a foot heals. When was the hip surgery? Was that before or after his rookie campaign?

After. He couldn't train going into his sophomore season.

 

[vendetta]

Huberdeau in his rookie year looked a lot different than he has the last two seasons. He COULD deke, he wasn't extremely slow-- he was more of a spark plug similar to Trocheck. His Calder year was completely different than what we have seen lately. I don't think it is because of the shortened season. In a shortened season you don't stickhandle better and you don't skate better -- that doesn't make sense.

We know he played with a broken foot, but a foot heals. When was the hip surgery? Was that before or after his rookie campaign?

It was after... derailed his offseason and all of last year.. hips can be brutal

 

[Egblad]

It was after... derailed his offseason and all of last year.. hips can be brutal

The question becomes how long does this injury impact him? He had a full healthy off season to catch up, and yet we seem to be seeing a continuation of last season. At this point I'm not really sure what to think. I think he should look better than he does having a long off season to improve. It's disappointing.

 

[vendetta]

The question becomes how long does this injury impact him? He had a full healthy off season to catch up, and yet we seem to be seeing a continuation of last season. At this point I'm not really sure what to think. I think he should look better than he does having a long off season to improve. It's disappointing.

He looks a lot better than last season... also he most likely spent the offseason just bulking... now he can start working on explosiveness and his shot...can't do everything in one offseason... still not physically mature either... I don't think we'll see his peak for 2 maybe even 3 years... which is fine... he production I expect to take a decent jump next year... if he has a decent second half may even hit 50 points this year which is pretty good considering where he's at physically

 

[FrolikFan67]

In a shortened season you don't stickhandle better and you don't skate better -- that doesn't make sense.

no, but a lot of weird things did happen that year statistically that year, thats why i typically don't put toooo much importance on what players did that year compared to other years.

sure he can get a little better, i would sure hope so at least. he'll get a little bigger and stronger as he matures, thats natural, nothing major though I'm sure. his stick handling is alright but theres something about it that isnt as dynamic as other players around the league. its hard to describe but he stick handles a lot side to side, something about his skating and stick handling is kinda stiff and limited (especially the skating), theres guys who's skating isnt as long stride but a lot more quicker and short/controlled strides along with an ability to handle the puck closer and more dynamically and quicker (just look at the huberdeau vs trocheck comparison i suppose, kinda illustrates it well). slap shot, wrist shot, snap shot, one-timer, every conceivable shot is terrible and I'm not sure how much you can truly change that at this point, he's had his own technique his whole life, maybe you can tweak it a little like a pitcher's form in baseball but i don't expect that much more added velocity behind his shot at this stage.

I've been saying the best i see him being in the league is a 20g-30a guy, thats what jokinen did this past season. whatever he ends up peaking at I'm sure you could easily find through trade or free agency. people are clinging to the draft position and hoping he turns out like we were hoping but at some point you have to realize what you have, draft position doesn't mean anything at this point. even if he can be a half decent playmaker the goal scoring is still going to be limited, having that issue with barkov id rather just trade huberdeau now while he still has the "potential" raised value and get a player that better suites the team.

 

[vendetta]

no, but a lot of weird things did happen that year statistically that year, thats why i typically don't put toooo much importance on what players did that year compared to other years.

sure he can get a little better, i would sure hope so at least. he'll get a little bigger and stronger as he matures, thats natural, nothing major though I'm sure. his stick handling is alright but theres something about it that isnt as dynamic as other players around the league. its hard to describe but he stick handles a lot side to side, something about his skating and stick handling is kinda stiff and limited (especially the skating), theres guys who's skating isnt as long stride but a lot more quicker and short/controlled strides along with an ability to handle the puck closer and more dynamically and quicker (just look at the huberdeau vs trocheck comparison i suppose, kinda illustrates it well). slap shot, wrist shot, snap shot, one-timer, every conceivable shot is terrible and I'm not sure how much you can truly change that at this point, he's had his own technique his whole life, maybe you can tweak it a little like a pitcher's form in baseball but i don't expect that much more added velocity behind his shot at this stage.

I've been saying the best i see him being in the league is a 20g-30a guy, thats what jokinen did this past season. whatever he ends up peaking at I'm sure you could easily find through trade or free agency. people are clinging to the draft position and hoping he turns out like we were hoping but at some point you have to realize what you have, draft position doesn't mean anything at this point. even if he can be a half decent playmaker the goal scoring is still going to be limited, having that issue with barkov id rather just trade huberdeau now while he still has the "potential" raised value and get a player that better suites the team.

Well his strength and shot can improve dramatically... I've seen it with nuge this year... and it is a drastic difference... so to say he can get a little stronger but nothing major and tweak his shot and not get much more velocity is way off...especially for a young physically immature player... now if he does or not is a different story but I have no reason to believe otherwise

 

[LUUUUUIS]

no, but a lot of weird things did happen that year statistically that year, thats why i typically don't put toooo much importance on what players did that year compared to other years.

sure he can get a little better, i would sure hope so at least. he'll get a little bigger and stronger as he matures, thats natural, nothing major though I'm sure. his stick handling is alright but theres something about it that isnt as dynamic as other players around the league. its hard to describe but he stick handles a lot side to side, something about his skating and stick handling is kinda stiff and limited (especially the skating), theres guys who's skating isnt as long stride but a lot more quicker and short/controlled strides along with an ability to handle the puck closer and more dynamically and quicker (just look at the huberdeau vs trocheck comparison i suppose, kinda illustrates it well). slap shot, wrist shot, snap shot, one-timer, every conceivable shot is terrible and I'm not sure how much you can truly change that at this point, he's had his own technique his whole life, maybe you can tweak it a little like a pitcher's form in baseball but i don't expect that much more added velocity behind his shot at this stage.

I've been saying the best i see him being in the league is a 20g-30a guy, thats what jokinen did this past season. whatever he ends up peaking at I'm sure you could easily find through trade or free agency. people are clinging to the draft position and hoping he turns out like we were hoping but at some point you have to realize what you have, draft position doesn't mean anything at this point. even if he can be a half decent playmaker the goal scoring is still going to be limited, having that issue with barkov id rather just trade huberdeau now while he still has the "potential" raised value and get a player that better suites the team.

All that text, I was scared you were going to miss your quota!

 

[Brokin]

I've been saying the best i see him being in the league is a 20g-30a guy, thats what jokinen did this past season. whatever he ends up peaking at I'm sure you could easily find through trade or free agency. people are clinging to the draft position and hoping he turns out like we were hoping but at some point you have to realize what you have, draft position doesn't mean anything at this point. even if he can be a half decent playmaker the goal scoring is still going to be limited, having that issue with barkov id rather just trade huberdeau now while he still has the "potential" raised value and get a player that better suites the team.

What do you think you could get in return for the guy? I don't see anyone offering a goal scorer or prospect with upside. I've heard him compared to Ribeiro, but Ribeiro has a step on him and he's really strong on the puck. I think we are married to him with hopes the guy acquires strong hands and wrists and somehow notches up his first three strides.

I don't see him being extended long term and if Tallon does then it would be a gamble. A one or two year at max with minimum payout until he proves he can be a viable part of the system.

Incidently, Barkov has good top end speed but will need to improve his initial burst. He is no where near the type of skater Huberdeau is.

 

[Dread Clawz]

He looks a lot better than last season... also he most likely spent the offseason just bulking... now he can start working on explosiveness and his shot...can't do everything in one offseason... still not physically mature either... I don't think we'll see his peak for 2 maybe even 3 years... which is fine... he production I expect to take a decent jump next year... if he has a decent second half may even hit 50 points this year which is pretty good considering where he's at physically

Didn't Huby say he mostly worked up his lower body this offseason, not upper body? Or did I misunderstand him.

you get to learn from far superior players, they're around you to help you learn the craft. i mean, look at Ekblad, who teaches him how to shoot? Campbell? Gudbranson? Kulikov? hell, mitchell?

or you look at someone like giroux that can teach you A LOT of stuff in practice.

its also easier to perform on a good tema when you're not thrown at the wolves, even if couts have been

That's true, but Couturier was put right into a top defensive role as an 18 yr old rookie on the 4th line, getting tons of hard minutes and PK time, and no PP time. He is still used as a shutdown center with no PP time. And he still has had both a better defensive and offensive output than Huby so far in their careers. Huby has been put in the best possible situations to succeed, you can say he was thrown to the wolves, and he wasn't surrounded by great players coming in, but he has been given tons of chances to show his offensive wares and is currently playing on the same line with the team's best sniper. Environment might be a part of it, but Couts is just a better player than Huby(as of right now anyway).

 

[vendetta]

Didn't Huby say he mostly worked up his lower body this offseason, not upper body? Or did I misunderstand him.



That's true, but Couturier was put right into a top defensive role as an 18 yr old rookie on the 4th line, getting tons of hard minutes and PK time, and no PP time. He is still used as a shutdown center with no PP time. And he still has had both a better defensive and offensive output than Huby so far in their careers. Huby has been put in the best possible situations to succeed, you can say he was thrown to the wolves, and he wasn't surrounded by great players coming in, but he has been given tons of chances to show his offensive wares and is currently playing on the same line with the team's best sniper. Environment might be a part of it, but Couts is just a better player than Huby(as of right now anyway).

Yes I would assume regular strength training on his hip/legs and looks stronger than last year... different than being physically matured and spending a summer on shot/explosiveness... couts is a lot stronger and physically mature than huby....he still has a teenager body physically speaking... loOK at the sedins... didn't get over 40pts til their 5th season then bam 70 pts...I think everyone is underestimating the limitations physical maturity and proper offseason training can effect a player... I know it sucks but patience is still needed for these guys...