GDT: 1/12/17 - 7:30PM EDT - Buffalo VS Tampa Bay

[Sky04]

Good win but Buffalo is a bad team that we always beat up, not putting any stock into this yet.

 

[Todd1a]

Buffalo fans are they just watched their player get the living hell beat out of him. Hedman took 4 or 5 shots to the face before he said "f#&# it" and just destroyed him. How do you know you got your ass beat?

When half your bench isn't tapping for you and the refs had to step in to prevent you from receiving permanent brain damage.



I don't see we cannot resign Bishop. Yzerman needs to make something happen pre-trade deadline to get the salary there. Give Bishop a contract going into the playoffs and we'll see his confidence level hit a new high.

I'd hate to give up on vasy but might be best to trade him for a trouba even if we got to add to it

 

[Stammertime91]

Times like these I really loathe at Callahan being here. It would be much easier to move one of Garrison/Coburn/Flip and resign Bishop. Gonna be an interesting, or disappointing next month depending on what the team does on the ice.

 

[T REX]

I say keep Bish and trade Vasy. Bish is better now and we are set up to win NOW not 5-8 yrs from now.

 

[Sky04]

I say keep Bish and trade Vasy. Bish is better now and we are set up to win NOW not 5-8 yrs from now.

THen what do you do in 4 years? If you keep Bishop, you keep Vasi, either way you cannot move Vasi.

 

[Stammertime91]

THen what do you do in 4 years? If you keep Bishop, you keep Vasi, either way you cannot move Vasi.

I'd rather take the gamble. Build the pool and dangle a forward for a goalie? It's definitely a risk and definitely a lot to think about but we have a group that is still capable of doing damage if hot with Bishop for the next few years. I don't see Vasy being the guy to step in and play 50 or more games from next year onwards at his current state of play. Personally, I just don't see it. Even if you don't take into account his recent struggles, he's still too green and there's too much invested in the resignings and structure to throw it away for Vasy to *maybe* lead us into the playoffs and go on a run. I think we'd all be comfortable taking the chance in 2 years but starting in 9 months? No, I'm not comfortable with that. I'd gladly eat crow though.

I don't believe you need a top 5 goalie to win a cup but you do need a competent defense and we certainly do not have that with this group. Sometimes they are brilliant but this year, if that's the trend, wow, tough times ahead especially if Vasy is our goalie. Bishop, like many said when he went down last year masks A LOT of our troubles by handling the puck and feeding it into the corners for Garrison and Coburn to chop down the ice. We have very little mobility back there and very little offensive awareness outside of 77. You see it in flashes with the occasional Garrison, Nesterov or Sustr moment but really? I cringe to think that is what we will rely on.

The flip side is what if Bishop goes down on opening night or in the playoffs again, then it looks bad, even worse than its already been because while Vasy is more than likely learning the ropes in a 1a/1b or starting role we will have a backup, whoever that may be, to fill in while the guy we went with is on paid leave for weeks or months.

This is the biggest decision Yzerman will have to make and I think more important than the decision he made with 91. With Bishop, you can get by with your 7 defenseman on hand. Without him, you need to start looking at revamping it and that could take a couple years (or not in some scenaros) and some growing pains.

 

[T REX]

THen what do you do in 4 years? If you keep Bishop, you keep Vasi, either way you cannot move Vasi.

4 years? Sorry but you can't worry about that now. You try to win and balance what you can. The expansion draft is a wild card. Bishop is the better goalie now and if you think this team can win it...roll with Bish. Vasy is NOT ready. It sucks but it is fact.

 

[TheThunderYears]

We're just a different team with Bish and I don't know how to reconcile that with the types of moves we'll need to make this offseason. After watching Vasy exclusively the past several games, it's undeniable how valuable Bish's puck movement is to our D and how much better his rebound control is. Unless he's dragging his leg, he needs to start tomorrow too.

Also, good to see the Lightning getting some of their swagger back. Did anyone else see Killer messing with Vlady while he was trying to give a postgame interview? It was hilarious.

 

[TampaJay]

I read an article recently about how many hours Vasi spent working on his puck handling last summer. Let’s face it, there are very few goalies in the league that have Bishop’s skill in that department, maybe only one… Price. It is a talent as much as a learned skill. Vasi will never equal Bishop in that regard. With another D core, it might not be that big a deal, but it sure is with this group.

 

[TampaJay]

THen what do you do in 4 years? If you keep Bishop, you keep Vasi, either way you cannot move Vasi.

When I run the numbers on CapFriendly, keeping both is next to impossible even if Bishop re-signs for about what he is getting now. That is still about 10 million tied up in goalies with Vasi at 3.5 next year. Unfortunately, it is looking like it is an either/or predicament. Might be possible IF you moved all three of Garrison, Filppula, and Callahan with nothing retained and no buyouts, and some good contracts from Johnson, Palat, and Drouin.

 

[Todd1a]

It's hard to have vasy be the starter here yzerman has to revamp this whole defense other then stralman and hedman which in one off season is next to impossible. Sign bishop to a 5 year deal for 6 per year and trade vasy for honka in Dallas and a draft pick or something. It sucks but no way is vasy ready to be a starter next season two years from now I'd say yes! Honka is a young right handed puck mover in the making on a cheap contract for this year and next year! Till garrison expires.

 

[Sky04]

4 years? Sorry but you can't worry about that now. You try to win and balance what you can. The expansion draft is a wild card. Bishop is the better goalie now and if you think this team can win it...roll with Bish. Vasy is NOT ready. It sucks but it is fact.

Uh ya you can and you should. Keeping Vasi isn't going to make or break a cup now but it will make or break the team in the future

 

[xteesy]

It's hard to have vasy be the starter here yzerman has to revamp this whole defense other then stralman and hedman which in one off season is next to impossible. Sign bishop to a 5 year deal for 6 per year and trade vasy for honka in Dallas and a draft pick or something. It sucks but no way is vasy ready to be a starter next season two years from now I'd say yes! Honka is a young right handed puck mover in the making on a cheap contract for this year and next year! Till garrison expires.

Wow, when Todd and I agree on Vasi you really know things are bad

Uh ya you can and you should. Keeping Vasi isn't going to make or break a cup now but it will make or break the team in the future

Sorry, but no. You absolutely do not build a team that is literally ready to win the cup and tell them to wait. Why? Because you want to keep your potential future good goaltender.

Especially when you have a STAR, mutli-year Vezina level goaltender on your roster.

I called it pre-season and I'll re-call it now. Vasi is getting moved pre-deadline for a RHD. Bishop will get an extension pre-playoffs (if we're in a position to go) or later this year once we have time to settle everything down.

Bishop will probably get a 500k~1ish raise.

Johnson / Palat will be lucky to get very much of a raise. They're playing at their pay level right now, add about $500k to $1m max.

Drouin will bridge.

 

[DFC]

Bishop is like a general back there. We're actually able to maintain structure because we're not constantly scrambling for rebounds.

 

[Sky04]

Wow, when Todd and I agree on Vasi you really know things are bad



Sorry, but no. You absolutely do not build a team that is literally ready to win the cup and tell them to wait. Why? Because you want to keep your potential future good goaltender.

Especially when you have a STAR, mutli-year Vezina level goaltender on your roster.

I called it pre-season and I'll re-call it now. Vasi is getting moved pre-deadline for a RHD. Bishop will get an extension pre-playoffs (if we're in a position to go) or later this year once we have time to settle everything down.

Bishop will probably get a 500k~1ish raise.

Johnson / Palat will be lucky to get very much of a raise. They're playing at their pay level right now, add about $500k to $1m max.

Drouin will bridge.

lol guarantee me a cup and maybe I'll agree, I wouldn't chance 10+years of goaltending on a forward to push us over the top, which is the cost of keeping both Bishop and Vasi.

You talk like keeping both goaltenders means a rebuild.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

We're not guaranteed a cup, either way. I can see the wisdom in dealing him if the alternative is that he and the team ruin each other by never having any confidence in the other party.

 

[DFC]

Once again, we all forgot about Drej.

Huge game from him.

 

[Sky04]

Once again, we all forgot about Drej.

Huge game from him.

Well he has half a season to make up for, no ones going to be overly praising him just yet. With 3 points tonight he's on pace for a solid 40 point season.

 

[DFC]

Well he has half a season to make up for, no ones going to be overly praising him just yet. With 3 points tonight he's on pace for a solid 40 point season.

8 points in 8 games since Christmas. I think we're just seeing the same thing he does every year. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with 55+ points.

 

[21]

You don't see Hedman use his full strenght often but it's fun to watch when he does. Though with the team looking like they are though we don't need tio him anywhere but on the ice, but still, good for him to stand up...

Good for Hedman, he is a big strong guy, that's for sure. ;-)

It's kind of rare watching Swedes in fights with the exception from the great Douglas "Crankshaft" Murray (I miss him, he was entertaining, especially his devastating open ice hits).

Landeskog may have got into a few but with his history of concussions, still being a young dude etc I believe he is much more careful these days. It's a bit the same as with Hedman though, both are very calm guys, but when they loose temper, beware. ;-)

It's not a fighting culture in Swedish hockey at all but I would say in general we are big, strong and well trained thus trying to fight us may hurt a bit. ;-)

 

[Nautica54]

I'd hate to give up on vasy but might be best to trade him for a trouba even if we got to add to it

Been saying this for a long time...

With the team as currently constructed and talent in place, Bishop is the guy who best fits this team.

His puck control and ability to play like a 3rd defenseman back there at times is key.

This team simply responds when he is in net.

Your better off trading Vasy while the value is still there (young and cost controlled) and obtaining talent elsewhere to make the next step.

Package Vasy with someone with an undesirable contract (Flip or Cally) and free up some salary at the same time. You may take the hit on return but you free up cap to fit Bishop in too.

Big decision for yzerman

 

[danyhabsfan]

How was Dumont?

He usually brings a lot of energy to the team.

Happy to see him in the NHL even for 1 game.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I read an article recently about how many hours Vasi spent working on his puck handling last summer. Let’s face it, there are very few goalies in the league that have Bishop’s skill in that department, maybe only one… Price. It is a talent as much as a learned skill. Vasi will never equal Bishop in that regard. With another D core, it might not be that big a deal, but it sure is with this group.

I've come to realize my issues with him handling the puck aren't with handling the puck itself - he has actually improved significantly in that department and can move/handle/manage the puck fairly well. What he can't do (yet), though, is manage the flow of the game when he has the opportunity to.

Ben is very adept at picking up what defenders are doing on the opposing blueline and catching people in line changes, as well as knowing how to hit people in stride, and keeping play moving. If you look back over the last few games with Vasi (and I don't have the numbers in front of me) it feels like he freezes the puck a lot more than Ben and avoids keeping the play moving.

Even after being out a month, you saw Ben on a few occasions catch Buffalo changing and would hit Vladdy/Killer up on the opposing side and force Buffalo back into the D zone. Vasi at this point just waits for a defender or two to drop to the goal line and hope to dump it off. In doing that, we're already pinned in our zone, you're having to drop all your forwards back into the D zone to cover up, and it disrupts the game a bit.

I need to round up some video and take notes.

 

[Hoek]

My problem with Vasi's puckhandling is his decisions are usually too slow and deliberate. Sometimes it's better to just fling it around the boards than just standing there until a guy cuts you off. The important thing is to disrupt their forechecking. There's not always a clean breakout.

 

[FinnLightning26]

It was good to see Bish back. Felt like his puckhandling really made a difference like it many times does.

This win doesn't change anything if they don't follow up with more wins. The road trip from hell is coming so that will probably make or break our season.