GDT: 1/12/17 - 7:30PM EDT - Buffalo VS Tampa Bay

[DFC]

I've come to realize my issues with him handling the puck aren't with handling the puck itself - he has actually improved significantly in that department and can move/handle/manage the puck fairly well. What he can't do (yet), though, is manage the flow of the game when he has the opportunity to.

Ben is very adept at picking up what defenders are doing on the opposing blueline and catching people in line changes, as well as knowing how to hit people in stride, and keeping play moving. If you look back over the last few games with Vasi (and I don't have the numbers in front of me) it feels like he freezes the puck a lot more than Ben and avoids keeping the play moving.

Even after being out a month, you saw Ben on a few occasions catch Buffalo changing and would hit Vladdy/Killer up on the opposing side and force Buffalo back into the D zone. Vasi at this point just waits for a defender or two to drop to the goal line and hope to dump it off. In doing that, we're already pinned in our zone, you're having to drop all your forwards back into the D zone to cover up, and it disrupts the game a bit.

I need to round up some video and take notes.

Ben just reads plays better. Vasy might actually be better at stopping pucks, but Ben is like a general.

I think Ben actually covers a lot more pucks than Vasy (Vasy covered a ton of them in the Pens game though, in the 3rd period at least). But he does it when he doesn't have room to make a play. Sometimes, like last game, you'll see him actually jump out of his crease to freeze a puck when he feels like our defenders are in trouble.

Up until the last game or two, Vasy was only covering one, maybe two pucks a period. With Bishop, the second he doesn't like what he's seeing, he errs on the side of caution and gets a whistle. I think it's the most underrated part of his game.

Mainly, Bishop is as predictable to our defenders as he is unpredictable to the opponent. We just play a more settled game in front of him, which leads to wins when he's actually stopping pucks.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

My problem with Vasi's puckhandling is his decisions are usually too slow and deliberate. Sometimes it's better to just fling it around the boards than just standing there until a guy cuts you off. The important thing is to disrupt their forechecking. There's not always a clean breakout.

Exactly. He handles it, but doesn't keep play moving. Frustrating, but he is very young and raw still.

Ben just reads plays better. Vasy might actually be better at stopping pucks, but Ben is like a general.

I think Ben actually covers a lot more pucks than Vasy (Vasy covered a ton of them in the Pens game though, in the 3rd period at least). But he does it when he doesn't have room to make a play. Sometimes, like last game, you'll see him actually jump out of his crease to freeze a puck when he feels like our defenders are in trouble.

Up until the last game or two, Vasy was only covering one, maybe two pucks a period. With Bishop, the second he doesn't like what he's seeing, he errs on the side of caution and gets a whistle. I think it's the most underrated part of his game.

Mainly, Bishop is as predictable to our defenders as he is unpredictable to the opponent. We just play a more settled game in front of him, which leads to wins when he's actually stopping pucks.

I'm going to try to crunch some numbers on this and see if I can find trends between them. I don't know if I agree with the Vasi covering 1-2 a period, I feel like he is way, way above that. I'll find out soon enough, I guess!

Ben in a lot of ways sees the whole ice, rather than the player bearing down on him. That will be the next big progression in 88's development, I think.

 

[DFC]

Exactly. He handles it, but doesn't keep play moving. Frustrating, but he is very young and raw still.


I'm going to try to crunch some numbers on this and see if I can find trends between them. I don't know if I agree with the Vasi covering 1-2 a period, I feel like he is way, way above that. I'll find out soon enough, I guess!

Ben in a lot of ways sees the whole ice, rather than the player bearing down on him. That will be the next big progression in 88's development, I think.

I've always wanted to do that too. Is there a site that covers this kind of thing, or would it involve watching actual games and keeping count? I'd actually be game for that, just to see what the actual numbers show.

I feel like Bishop absorbs about 50% of the shots that hit him and he gets a whistle. Pucks bounce off Vasy a lot more, and he struggles to corral them.

On dump ins, then yeah, Bishop's main goal always seems to be to push the play the other way before the opponent has time to turn around.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I've always wanted to do that too. Is there a site that covers this kind of thing, or would it involve watching actual games and keeping count? I'd actually be game for that, just to see what the actual numbers show.

I feel like Bishop absorbs about 50% of the shots that hit him and he gets a whistle. Pucks bounce off Vasy a lot more, and he struggles to corral them.

On dump ins, then yeah, Bishop's main goal always seems to be to push the play the other way before the opponent has time to turn around.

I'm going to ask around if anyone is tracking that particular stat, but i'm going to guess its a resounding "no".

As for absorbing shots, yeah, Andrei has some issues managing his rebounds at times - also has a bad habit of popping them right back out in front of him in high risk areas. Its a thing that will come with time and comfort, and some of it is stylistic differences compared to Ben. Ben is giant, obviously, and just lets a lot of pucks hit him, no reason not to when you're that size, right? For Vasi, though, he depends a lot more on reflexive saves, I guess you could call it. Or even reactionary? He uses his athleticism to bail him out a lot more than Ben does.

Your last line is, yeah, I think the entire point. They've taught the kid to handle the puck, now he needs to handle the flow. Keep defenders moving, don't let guys like Sustr stop, and keep moving the play forward. Ben does it so incredibly well.

 

[DFC]

I'm going to ask around if anyone is tracking that particular stat, but i'm going to guess its a resounding "no".

As for absorbing shots, yeah, Andrei has some issues managing his rebounds at times - also has a bad habit of popping them right back out in front of him in high risk areas. Its a thing that will come with time and comfort, and some of it is stylistic differences compared to Ben. Ben is giant, obviously, and just lets a lot of pucks hit him, no reason not to when you're that size, right? For Vasi, though, he depends a lot more on reflexive saves, I guess you could call it. Or even reactionary? He uses his athleticism to bail him out a lot more than Ben does.

Your last line is, yeah, I think the entire point. They've taught the kid to handle the puck, now he needs to handle the flow. Keep defenders moving, don't let guys like Sustr stop, and keep moving the play forward. Ben does it so incredibly well.

Agreed on all points. When I talk about Ben covering more pucks, I mean specifically on shots against. I think Vasy's goal is to cover the puck too, but it's an area of his game he's still struggling with. I think he's going to work all of this out with time, but Ben is above and beyond the level of a normal goalie when it comes to controlling games.

I have an afternoon to kill. I'm gonna keep some crude stats on a Vasy game and maybe a Bish game if I have time. For Vasy, I'll start with the most recent Philly game for two reasons. The first is: I missed the first two periods of that one. The second is: It's the game where he faced the most shots this year. I do remember him covering a lot of pucks in the third of that one, so it might not be the best sample.

I have a quirky theory that goalies can have an effect on possession stats, and they should probably be kept for goalies. I don't think there's a better case study than our own team, where Vasy routinely gives up more shots than Bish.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I like it, i'll be joining you in crunching some of these, too.

 

[DFC]

I'm going to keep a count on the opposing goalie too. Just keeping it simple right now. Counting pucks frozen off a shot separately from pucks otherwise frozen.

ADD: Oh, and also "controlled shots," which I'm not counting as a steered rebound, but more when the goalie gathers in a shot and makes a deliberate pass.

 

[DFC]

I'm one period down, but I had to pop back in, because, gotta say, when you're watching the game with a complete focus on rebounds, it actually makes it feel worse.

After 1 period, Vasy has frozen 1 puck on 14 saves, and 1 puck that floated out in front of the net. Almost everything is getting kicked out pretty much at random.

At the other end, Neuvirth froze 1 puck on 6 saves (7 shots).

(Broadcast reported 27-9 shot attempts)

 

[Stammertime91]

How was Dumont?

He usually brings a lot of energy to the team.

Happy to see him in the NHL even for 1 game.

I thought he was one of the better forwards last night. Played with speed and energy. Caused a scrum by hitting the ref unintentionally into the Sabres bench lol. I'd like to see him play a few more times to be honest, maybe some competition for that last spot.

 

[DFC]

Through two periods of this little experiment, it's pretty eye opening.

Vasy has frozen 3 pucks on 26 saves (30 shots), and 1 puck that trickled out in front. By contrast, Neuvirth has frozen 4 pucks on 14 saves (16 shots).

ADD: I thought I remembered Vasy covering a lot of pucks in the third, and indeed he did. He wound up with 9 frozen pucks on 40 saves (6 in the 3rd), and 1 otherwise frozen puck. There was a span of about two minutes where Philly was just lobbing pucks at him, and he gobbled them up. I'm gonna guess that'll come out in the wash in Ben's games too, but we'll see. Gonna watch Ben vs. Toronto, which is the game that Ben faced the most shots. Once I have stuff to compare, I'll put it in the goalie thread.