Post-Game Talk: “The One That Got Cloned Angry”

[guymez]

I'm just saying it's clear why any Oiler fan would be angry right now. It feels like the last 12~ years of following this team was for nothing and could very well continue that way.

It very well could. Anything is possible with Katz as an owner....this may not even be the low point.

The thing is my anger doesnt affect the teams decisions and Katz simply doesnt care how angry Oiler fans get.
I have wasted enough time being angry in past seasons. Its not worth it.

That said I am not at all trying to tell you what to feel.

 

[Tyrolean]

Losing is good at this stage if you don't deliberately do it. Better for draft position. Really hope they strike gold where they pick this year. How could Pool party be such a dud and Yams slow to develop?

 

[joestevens29]

I've had this problem with the coaching staff all year. Both McLellan and Hitchcock have pretty much ran the bench the same. I dont really understand the logic.

I'm fine with not just throwing a guy in there right off the bat, but Currie has showed some pretty smart offensive instincts and seems to have some wheels to get to the right spots.

 

[joestevens29]

Woodcroft would be that coach but we need him in Bakers.

I do however see Woodcroft becoming a Jon Cooper type coach down the road. Hopefully with us and not for another team

I have my concerns with Woodcroft at the NHL level still, but we need to be looking at a coach that is flexible. One that adjusts his game plan based on what type of team he has to work with.

 

[joestevens29]

Losing is good at this stage if you don't deliberately do it. Better for draft position. Really hope they strike gold where they pick this year. How could Pool party be such a dud and Yams slow to develop?

How is Yams slow to develop? The 6th, 11th, 13th, 19th, 25th, 27th, 28th, and 31st overalls(all forwards) from his year have yet to play a single NHL game. Then you can add about 5 more 1st round forwards that haven't done anything in the NHL either. As of today there is no one taken after him that has proven anything either.

Guy was 22nd overall and guys from the draft before him drafted in similar positions have yet to establish themselves either.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That was certainly a game, wasn't it?

Just more proof the defense needs to be upgraded.

 

[Chabot84]

Of course.
In case you havent noticed the teams ahead of the Oilers have been subject to just as much inconsistency as the Oilers have.
So you have no better sense of how this is going to play out than anybody else on here....including me.
I dont have an expectation that the Oilers will make it but every team involved still has to play the games.

Anything is possible and honestly after breaking all that down I kinda realized that we still do have a chance (small).. it isn't over yet.

 

[dssource]

Sadly Kosk forgot to show for this one. D was awful. And that PK. 2 years or atrocious PK. Something has to happen WRT to the PK next year. Our saviours in Bordziak and Reider, the PK specialists...ugh...

Very few games left to be letting points slip like that. Again, points went out east. Gotta get back into it, whatever it is at this point, and beat a hot Yotes team on Saturday. One game at a time.

 

[FlameChampion]

How is Yams slow to develop? The 6th, 11th, 13th, 19th, 25th, 27th, 28th, and 31st overalls(all forwards) from his year have yet to play a single NHL game. Then you can add about 5 more 1st round forwards that haven't done anything in the NHL either. As of today there is no one taken after him that has proven anything either.

Guy was 22nd overall and guys from the draft before him drafted in similar positions have yet to establish themselves either.

I believe its too early as well to criticize Yamamoto. We as a fan base need to step back from the ledge at times, when it comes to a lot of things.

From what I have seen though, I have some concerns about him. His skating just doesnt seem elite enough to overcome his size, it just seems he cant create enough separation. Skating is something that could be improved, and he should get stronger as he ages, which should help a bit. Hopefully he avoids any injuries and can have a good summer to work on his game.

 

[Little Fury]

Let’s take a look at what Nuge actually brings.
Among forwards his +/- is 3rd worst, at -11 he’s ahead of Puli and Brodziak only.

lol at raw plus/minus. RNH is -6 at 5V5, not great by any means, but on a garbage team playing with a mixed bag of garbage, it's about what you'd expect. Only five regular forwards have better numbers and three of those (Lucic, Chiasson and Rattie) are either playing fourth line minutes or spending buckets of time with McDavid and Drai.

Of his 36 assists 22 are on the pp, so that’s 14 at even strength.

So?

He has 2 gwg, so does Kassian, his shooting % is 11.8, Kass’ is 12.9.

So?

Chaisson has 2 fewer goals despite playing 9 fewer games.

So?

Nuge is 46% on the dot and has 1 shg, are these numbers good for someone touted as a good defensive player?

You tell me.

He’s paid 6M and will want a raise in 2 years, if we paid him 1-2M, put him on the 4th line would his numbers be any better than Cave’s? Atleast Cave can play the body.

If we played Cave on the second line would his numbers be better than Nuge's?

Nuge is the worst first overall pick still playing in the league by a long shot, but go ahead and keep defending this soft, leaderless excuse of a player. I can’t wait for the day he’s finally shipped out.

Then you're one of those Oilers fans who deserves the team we've had for the past decade plus.

 

[PinSeeker]

Arz beating Anaheim last night 6-1 makes our loss to NJ look frankly even more embarrassing, *however*...

Arz is getting heavily outplayed. Have watched the last two games they played and then doublechecked analytics on Natural Stat Trick. They have had their show run completely. Only thing saving them is Kuemper. Koskinen killed us vs NJD.

Arz, if they keep playing like this and their goaltending recedes to average, could conceivably take a nosedive here in the last 10 games.

 

[Messrules11]

lol at raw plus/minus. RNH is -6 at 5V5, not great by any means, but on a garbage team playing with a mixed bag of garbage, it's about what you'd expect. Only five regular forwards have better numbers and three of those (Lucic, Chiasson and Rattie) are either playing fourth line minutes or spending buckets of time with McDavid and Drai.



So?



So?



So?



You tell me.



If we played Cave on the second line would his numbers be better than Nuge's?



Then you're one of those Oilers fans who deserves the team we've had for the past decade plus.

If all you can do is reply to facts with so? so? Then it’s apparent you deserve a losing team. And don’t kid yourself, Nuge is a big part of that ‘mixed bag of garbage’, hell, he’s the one constant.

 

[destro909]

If all you can do is reply to facts with so? so? Then it’s apparent you deserve a losing team. And don’t kid yourself, Nuge is a big part of that ‘mixed bag of garbage’, hell, he’s the one constant.

I can't believe that someone looking at this roster would choose Nuge as the guy to single out. Every other forward other than McD or Drai is less valuable than Nuge. Sure he's not a perfect player, but come on. The rest of this roster is 4th liners and AHLers and you're going to blast the one guy that's a actual NHL player?

Out of curiosity, what kind of trade do you envision where the Oilers give up Nuge and improve the roster?

 

[Little Fury]

If all you can do is reply to facts with so? so? Then it’s apparent you deserve a losing team. And don’t kid yourself, Nuge is a big part of that ‘mixed bag of garbage’, hell, he’s the one constant.

Speaking of garbage, your previous post was full of flawed statistics like +/-, factual inaccuracies (eg Nuge has 17 PP assists and not 22) and irrelevant stats (wtf do the number of GWG or SH% have to do with anything?). I'm open to good arguments for trading Nuge; you just don't have one.

 

[Little Fury]

I can't believe that someone looking at this roster would choose Nuge as the guy to single out. Every other forward other than McD or Drai is less valuable than Nuge. Sure he's not a perfect player, but come on. The rest of this roster is 4th liners and AHLers and you're going to blast the one guy that's a actual NHL player?

Out of curiosity, what kind of trade do you envision where the Oilers give up Nuge and improve the roster?

$10 says he one of those "addition by subtraction buhhhhhhhhh." types.

 

[Connorrhea]

If all you can do is reply to facts with so? so? Then it’s apparent you deserve a losing team. And don’t kid yourself, Nuge is a big part of that ‘mixed bag of garbage’, hell, he’s the one constant.

I don't know why so many people love Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, he has been part of the problem over the years, not the solution. Quite frankly I find him to be a slow skater for a smaller player and I don't see him creating that much offensively and he has shown playing with McDavid that maybe he should be a winger because he needs someone to create something for him. He's a career -43 and he's suppose to be a good two way forward? His career corsi and fenwick are below 50% which means he's hurting the team more than helping. He's having a career year and yet he's only got 58 points, for a #1 overall pick in his 8TH SEASON!!!. He hasn't reached 60 points and he's almost played 10 years in the league and is having a career year when he's played a lot on McDavid's wing and on the PP.

All I see is way too many giveaways from him and players not picked up by him in the defensive zone that lead to goals. The power play numbers are pretty good this year because we have McDavid and Leon, but every time Nugent-Hopkins touches the puck he looks very unsure of himself and his place at the left wing side is frustrating to watch because he can't take a one-timer there and needs to be replaced with a right handed shot. One of the most important things I see in his game, or lack thereof, is passion and emotion. How many times do you see him display emotion on the ice, he looks like he doesn't care what happens out there.

He is the perfect candidate for trade bait for a team that needs a center and we can get a much better winger for the top 6 than anything we have now and Leon can move to the 2nd line center position which the team plays much better as when he and McDavid are split up.

 

[McDrai]

Surprised people are getting on RNH since he's our most skilled forward outside of McDrai. We need more of these guys not less.
Players to keep:
McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH
Klefbom
Nurse
Our Prospects

The rest of them are expendable imo. We have to be patient and draft and develop well. We got into this mess by making stupid reactionary trades (Hall, Eberle, etc). The last thing we should be doing is giving away skilled players such as Nuge for nothing. No thank you. Been down that road before

 

[Messrules11]

Speaking of garbage, your previous post was full of flawed statistics like +/-, factual inaccuracies (eg Nuge has 17 PP assists and not 22) and irrelevant stats (wtf do the number of GWG or SH% have to do with anything?). I'm open to good arguments for trading Nuge; you just don't have one.

He does have 22pp assists, go check your facts because you have no clue. His gwg are are relevant considering all the one goal games we have and shooting percentage is relevant to any player, it shows his muffin wristshots are useless. If you think he’s so good then tell me who we can get in return, should be 3/4 of the league beating down the door to acquire him.

 

[destro909]

He is the perfect candidate for trade bait for a team that needs a center and we can get a much better winger for the top 6 than anything we have now and Leon can move to the 2nd line center position which the team plays much better as when he and McDavid are split up.

I'd like to hear more about this winger that we're going to get in return for Nuge. I assume his cap hit will be less than $6M and has at least 2 years left on his contract? I'm also assuming that he's a 60+ point player that can play PP and PK? Who is this guy?

 

[Connorrhea]

He does have 22pp assists, go check your facts because you have no clue. His gwg are are relevant considering all the one goal games we have and shooting percentage is relevant to any player, it shows his muffin wristshots are useless. If you think he’s so good then tell me who we can get in return, should be 3/4 of the league beating down the door to acquire him.

I was always looking for the best way to describe his shot so thank you for this!

 

[Little Fury]

I don't know why so many people love Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, he has been part of the problem over the years, not the solution
..

Just like Petry, Dubnyk, Schultz, Hall, Eberle before him, right?

Quite frankly I find him to be a slow skater for a smaller player and I don't see him creating that much offensively and he has shown playing with McDavid that maybe he should be a winger because he needs someone to create something for him. He's a career -43 and he's suppose to be a good two way forward?

Lord save us from people using raw plus minus in 2019. At 5v5, Nuge is a career -18 which, when you consider the garbage teams he's played on, is actually not too bad.

His career corsi and fenwick are below 50% which means he's hurting the team more than helping.

That's...not what those stats mean.

One of the most important things I see in his game, or lack thereof, is passion and emotion. How many times do you see him display emotion on the ice, he looks like he doesn't care what happens out there.

K this has got to be parody, surely nobody actually cares about this stuff, right?

He is the perfect candidate for trade bait for a team that needs a center and we can get a much better winger for the top 6 than anything we have now and Leon can move to the 2nd line center position which the team plays much better as when he and McDavid are split up

Yeah it's good to only have three NHL calibre top 6 forward at a time, we should never go over that number.

 

[joestevens29]

He does have 22pp assists, go check your facts because you have no clue. His gwg are are relevant considering all the one goal games we have and shooting percentage is relevant to any player, it shows his muffin wristshots are useless. If you think he’s so good then tell me who we can get in return, should be 3/4 of the league beating down the door to acquire him.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...tion=F&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=ppPoints

 

[Little Fury]

He does have 22pp assists, go check your facts because you have no clue.

He has 22 PP points, including 5 goals. You want me to do that math on that one for you bud?

His gwg are are relevant considering all the one goal games we have

GWG are essentially random, it doesn't tell you much of anything.

and shooting percentage is relevant to any player, it shows his muffin wristshots are useles

Do...do you think SH% measures how hard a shot is? Does Drai have a high SH% this year because he's shooting harder?

If you think he’s so good then tell me who we can get in return, should be 3/4 of the league beating down the door to acquire him.

i don't think we should trade him, silly goose.

 

[Connorrhea]

I'd like to hear more about this winger that we're going to get in return for Nuge. I assume his cap hit will be less than $6M and has at least 2 years left on his contract? I'm also assuming that he's a 60+ point player that can play PP and PK? Who is this guy?

Rickard Rackell is making $3,789,444 for the next 3 seasons after this and had 69 points last year and had back to back 30 goal seasons before injuries this year on an aging team he only has 11 goals so he would be a bargain....sooo, maybe do some homework of your own before coming on here and making a fool out of yourself.

 

[Messrules11]

Rickard Rackell is making $3,789,444 for the next 3 seasons after this and had 69 points last year and had back to back 30 goal seasons before injuries this year on an aging team he only has 11 goals so he would be a bargain....sooo, maybe do some homework of your own before coming on here and making a fool out of yourself.

Add Kris Kreider to the list, Troechek would also be an improvement on wimpy Nuge