Post-Game Talk: “The One That Got Cloned Angry”

[Canovin]

Really not understanding the point of playing Currie so little. If you're not going to play him in some sort of offensive role then send him back to the AHL.

Be nice to have one of those coaches that isn't afraid of giving guys with skill a shot.

Woodcroft would be that coach but we need him in Bakers.

I do however see Woodcroft becoming a Jon Cooper type coach down the road. Hopefully with us and not for another team

 

[Messrules11]

This seems a bit harsh, I don't think there is much comparison between Nuge and any of the guys you listed (Pulj, Brodziak, Kassian, Chiasson, Cave). Sure they might beat Nuge in an individual stat here or there, but Nuge is a far better player than any of them. The fact is that Nuge is a 58 point C who plays an average of 20 mins a game against tough competition with 52.3% defensive zone starts. He's the third best forward on the team and a significant contributor both on the PP and the PK. Plus he has 2 seasons left on his contract. I think you'd have a hard time replacing a player like that with a $6M cap hit. There are 11 other forwards on this roster I'd look at replacing before I turned my attention to Nuge.

How am I being harsh? These are just facts. Are you saying the facts are harsh? If Nuge was playing the 3rd and 4th line minutes that these other guys are how can you say his numbers would be any better? Let’s not forget Nuge is having a ‘career year’ here to boot. What happens when his contract is up? Is he worth the 8-9M he’s going to ask for? Wouldn’t it make sense for the Oilers to trade while his value is as high as it’s ever been? He has 1 assist in his last 15 games, as the stakes go up he disappears, 4 assists in 13 playoff games, the facts are what they are.

 

[Chabot84]

If the Oilers go 9-2-1 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 5-7-1
Arizona 6-5-1
Minnesota 7-5-0
Colorado 8-4-0
Chicago 8-4-1

If the Oilers go 10-1-1 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 6-6-1
Arizona 7-4-1
Minnesota 8-4-0
Colorado 9-3-0
Chicago 9-3-1

If the Oilers go 11-0-1 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 7-5-1
Arizona 8-3-1
Minnesota 9-3-0
Colorado 10-2-0
Chicago 10-2-1

If the Oilers go 12-0-0 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 8-5-0
Arizona 9-3-0
Minnesota 9-2-1
Colorado 10-1-1
Chicago 11-2-0​

 

[harpoon]

What happens when his contract is up? Is he worth the 8-9M he’s going to ask for?

Hell no. RNH at $8 million is a complete disaster.
That goes double when the team is as cap strapped as the Oilers are.

 

[Yablo21]

IMO playing Draisaitl and McD 25+ minutes per night is just diluting their effectiveness. They're not as sharp playing that long as was seen last night from their problems with zone entry. We have to get them down to 22/23 min max. Other players need to be on the ice more, scoring be damned, just don't get score on.

As for playoffs, yes, barring some miracle, we are done.

 

[space321]

If the Oilers go 9-2-1 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 5-7-1
Arizona 6-5-1
Minnesota 7-5-0
Colorado 8-4-0
Chicago 8-4-1

If the Oilers go 10-1-1 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 6-7-1
Arizona 7-5-1
Minnesota 8-5-0
Colorado 9-4-0
Chicago 9-4-1

If the Oilers go 11-0-1 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 7-7-1
Arizona 8-5-1
Minnesota 9-5-0
Colorado 10-4-0
Chicago 10-4-1

If the Oilers go 12-0-0 to finish the season;

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 8-7-0
Arizona 9-5-0
Minnesota 9-5-1
Colorado 10-4-1
Chicago 11-4-0

Can you do the math if the Oilers go 5-6-1?

 

[Chabot84]

Can you do the math if the Oilers go 5-6-1?

lmao I did all that math wrong anyways like the pylon I am and edited the post... yeah maybe later tonight I could do a funny one like that hahahaha

 

[Zenos]

How am I being harsh? These are just facts. Are you saying the facts are harsh? If Nuge was playing the 3rd and 4th line minutes that these other guys are how can you say his numbers would be any better? Let’s not forget Nuge is having a ‘career year’ here to boot. What happens when his contract is up? Is he worth the 8-9M he’s going to ask for? Wouldn’t it make sense for the Oilers to trade while his value is as high as it’s ever been? He has 1 assist in his last 15 games, as the stakes go up he disappears, 4 assists in 13 playoff games, the facts are what they are.

Seems a bit dishonest to state "he has 1 assist in his last 15 games" when he also has 5 goals in that timeframe.

That being said, you're not at all wrong. RNH isn't worth anywhere near 8-9 mil and if that's the ask, I definitely don't want him back. But I don't want another Eberle situation either. Ie. I'd rather take the good player with warts over the garbage player + "cap space". If you can move Nugent Hopkins and improve the team, go for it. But he's definitely not an "addition by subtraction" type player either. If you're not improving the roster significantly or adding cap-space (which will actually be used to benefit the club), I'd rather we hold on to him. As bad as he's been, he's still one of our best (sadly). Simply trading him away won't (necessarily) improve our fortunes.

 

[FlameChampion]

Really not understanding the point of playing Currie so little. If you're not going to play him in some sort of offensive role then send him back to the AHL.

Be nice to have one of those coaches that isn't afraid of giving guys with skill a shot.

I've had this problem with the coaching staff all year. Both McLellan and Hitchcock have pretty much ran the bench the same. I dont really understand the logic.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I've had this problem with the coaching staff all year. Both McLellan and Hitchcock have pretty much ran the bench the same. I dont really understand the logic.

Most nhl coaches do this.

 

[harpoon]

Seems a bit dishonest to state "he has 1 assist in his last 15 games" when he also has 5 goals in that timeframe.

Not really when the poster was talking about 'assists'. btw, how many goals does 'not good enough to play in this league' Sam Gagner have in the last fifteen games?

 

[FlameChampion]

Most nhl coaches do this.

You could be right but honestly I dont remember a whole lot of coaches playing guys 3-5 mins a night like we have seen at times this year.

 

[Messrules11]

Seems a bit dishonest to state "he has 1 assist in his last 15 games" when he also has 5 goals in that timeframe.

That being said, you're not at all wrong. RNH isn't worth anywhere near 8-9 mil and if that's the ask, I definitely don't want him back. But I don't want another Eberle situation either. Ie. I'd rather take the good player with warts over the garbage player + "cap space". If you can move Nugent Hopkins and improve the team, go for it. But he's definitely not an "addition by subtraction" type player either. If you're not improving the roster significantly or adding cap-space (which will actually be used to benefit the club), I'd rather we hold on to him. As bad as he's been, he's still one of our best (sadly). Simply trading him away won't (necessarily) improve our fortunes.

Sure, I could’ve mentioned his 5 goals, I could also mention he has 2 game winners all year. The thing is when he does score, that’s it, it’s like he’s satisfied and done for the night. Most of his scoring is when the goal really has no bearing on the outcome of a game. How many 2 goal games has he had in his career? How many hat tricks? After 8 years he still disappears. Time to cut the cord.

 

[Zenos]

Not really when the poster was talking about 'assists'. btw, how many goals does 'not good enough to play in this league' Sam Gagner have in the last fifteen games?

Sure, I could’ve mentioned his 5 goals, I could also mention he has 2 game winners all year. The thing is when he does score, that’s it, it’s like he’s satisfied and done for the night. Most of his scoring is when the goal really has no bearing on the outcome of a game. How many 2 goal games has he had in his career? How many hat tricks? After 8 years he still disappears. Time to cut the cord.

Relax cowboys. Like I said, I'm not disagreeing with the statement (Messrules11's), just said that it's a bit dishonest.
Whatever floats your boat, though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sure, I could’ve mentioned his 5 goals, I could also mention he has 2 game winners all year. The thing is when he does score, that’s it, it’s like he’s satisfied and done for the night. Most of his scoring is when the goal really has no bearing on the outcome of a game. How many 2 goal games has he had in his career? How many hat tricks? After 8 years he still disappears. Time to cut the cord.

One of the goals btw was the completely fictional goal that made it a 6-2 loss very late in a game on an obvious goalie interference. The goal was hilarious. Everybody had quit thinking the play was whistled down and theres Nuge *scoring* on his third hack. Think about the context. It was 6-1 with two minutes left. A player that had been doing nothing was trying desperately to get that one knowing he'd done nothing. It was his one single point in a 6 game stretch.

Some of his others through this span were nice tap ins off gold feeds. But more the case some of the time its going to go in. Nuge gets a ton of feeds playing on first unit PP, certainly no shortage of them, and like I said earlier he had 7 primo scoring chances last night, cashed none, and only had 4 on net. I think he took 9 shots in the game.

This feeds into the latter point that its often Nuge doing the shooting on the PP. lmao. We have McD. a 40 goal scorer in his sleep, and Drai, a 42 goal scorer this season on the same damn PP and Nuge is taking more shots on goal than anybody. He has 200 shots this season, as many as Drasaitl, who has happened to scrore twice as many goals. But Nuge is playing with these best in the NHL talents, 2 of em, on one PP, and Nuge is on that unit every game and has 1 assist in the last 15GP. Its absolutely bizarre. This gives indication of how much Nuge is helping anybody on the PP, or helping the PP at all.

But the biggest point that can be made that in the 15GP since Feb 13, one month ago, and in the stretch run Nuge somehow has only 6pts in 15GP despite being near PPG nearly all the season before that.
He's -5 during that stretch. So that the 3rd best forward on the team has basically gone into a funk, again, at the most important segment in a season. But this same player will play like a demon in a decided game in the last minutes bagging that one more point or goal to pad a stat line to make it look like he makes any type of salient contribution.

 

[destro909]

How am I being harsh? These are just facts. Are you saying the facts are harsh? If Nuge was playing the 3rd and 4th line minutes that these other guys are how can you say his numbers would be any better? Let’s not forget Nuge is having a ‘career year’ here to boot. What happens when his contract is up? Is he worth the 8-9M he’s going to ask for? Wouldn’t it make sense for the Oilers to trade while his value is as high as it’s ever been? He has 1 assist in his last 15 games, as the stakes go up he disappears, 4 assists in 13 playoff games, the facts are what they are.

What’s the point of speculating about how many points Nuge would have with 4th line minutes? Are you saying that if Colby Cave had the same minutes as Nuge that he would have 59 points this season?

As for his contract, it expires over two years from now. Obviously, he doesn’t deserve $8-9M. Is there a source saying that he’s already asking for that? If so, then I agree we should move him, but there is no rush to get it done this summer. Unless you’re looking to rush another Eberle for Strome kind of deal.

Just to be clear, I’m not much of a Nuge fan myself. But the fact is that right now we have only 3 guys that are legit top 6 (heck I’d even say top 9) forwards and Nuge is one of them. We can’t really afford to move him unless it’s for an upgrade. And I have no confidence in the current Oilers management making that kind of move.

 

[Messrules11]

What’s the point of speculating about how many points Nuge would have with 4th line minutes? Are you saying that if Colby Cave had the same minutes as Nuge that he would have 59 points this season?

As for his contract, it expires over two years from now. Obviously, he doesn’t deserve $8-9M. Is there a source saying that he’s already asking for that? If so, then I agree we should move him, but there is no rush to get it done this summer. Unless you’re looking to rush another Eberle for Strome kind of deal.

Just to be clear, I’m not much of a Nuge fan myself. But the fact is that right now we have only 3 guys that are legit top 6 (heck I’d even say top 9) forwards and Nuge is one of them. We can’t really afford to move him unless it’s for an upgrade. And I have no confidence in the current Oilers management making that kind of move.

The point of speculating his production in a bottom six role is that just like Lucic if Nuge wasn’t being paid 6M he would look like any other bottom 6 player. Even worse he would be getting bumped off the puck, losing battles and being outworked every night. Know what happens to those type of players? They sit, or get sent to the farm. If not for his draft pedigree and salary where would he be?

 

[guymez]

Your math is way off unfortunately. You are asking for ALL the teams ahead of us to completey chit the bed.

I was 100% on board yesterday when the math still made sense and I looked at our schedule and I said... you know what... we might just be able to do this. Unfortunately losing to NJ means we have to run the table on Arizona, Vegas, St Louis and Columbus before we get back to an easier schedule of which we will have to run the table against Ottawa, Kings, Dallas and Anaheim.

And that's just so that we can budget one loss into the last 4 of our games which consist of;

Calgary, San Jose, Colorado and Vegas.

Now you can go ahead and budget more losses and still predict we make playoffs but I'm telling you its not looking good... we can afford one more loss.. anything more then that and we are pretty much toast.

This task definitely got a lot more difficult with a loss to NJ.. I agree with you 100%. Mission Impossible.

If the Oilers win the next 5 games I will jump back on the playoff bandwagon

Nope.
Its has nothing to do with jumping on a bandwagon. Just because I am not pissy about how things look doesnt mean I am some unquestioning fan boy.
I am just suggesting that the cutoff will be somewhere between 84 - 89 points.
Could I be wrong about that...of course. Its just a guess.

As I said...its unlikely that they make it.

 

[guymez]

This "playoff run" has been ridiculously overhyped. The oilers have had a 95%+ chance of missing the playoffs for weeks. They currently have a 98.1% chance of missing it. This team is hopelessly flawed. The oilers never had a chance, even in a historically bad year for our division.

The expectations for this team are beyond pathetic. It sickens me that there has been any kind of attempt whatsoever to mask the complete awfulness of this season. We have some of the best players in the world and management is trying to sell things like we're just around the corner, and much of the fan base seemingly forgets we've seen this show like 3 to 4 times over the last decade plus. The goal was to be contenders and nothing less, and here we are trying to pretend falling well behind in this turtle race for the 8th seed isn't completely pathetic.

Hey man...do you have a reason to be angry and disappointed? Of course...its been a disappointing season. I am disappointed as well.

That said....nothing I posted was inaccurate. I stated the reality of the situation.

 

[guymez]

I want to show you man... so you say we can handle 2 more losses and 1 OT loss and still make playoffs. Well lets figure out what that means the other teams ahead of records have to look like:

So our record in the next 12 games would be 9-2-1 equivalent to 19 points and has us finishing the season with 88 points.

So we need the teams ahead of us to be one point behind in order to get in so lets do the math.. im not gonna bother with TIE and ROW situations for this---

We would need the teams ahead of us to have the following records at maximum for points:

Dallas 5-7-1
Arizona 6-5-1
Minnesota 7-5-0
Colorado 8-4-0
Chicago 8-4-1

So we would need 4 of those 5 teams to all have worst records then the ones above while we go 9-2-1 to make the playoffs. If two of those teams have a better record to close out the season, we don't make it.

So yeah, with your math we have a chance but its very dependant on others. It looks like a good shot at catching Colorado and Chicago but not so much Minny and Arizona.. and Dallas is super far fetched so only one of Minny or Arizona needs to beat that record

Of course.
In case you havent noticed the teams ahead of the Oilers have been subject to just as much inconsistency as the Oilers have.
So you have no better sense of how this is going to play out than anybody else on here....including me.
I dont have an expectation that the Oilers will make it but every team involved still has to play the games.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

So, I assume from the last part of this thread RNH is the next player we're gonna run outta town?

 

[BlackDogg]

Honestly getting so used to this, it kind of seems like this and last season are just one long one.

 

[MikeGrier99]

Hey man...do you have a reason to be angry and disappointed? Of course...its been a disappointing season. I am disappointed as well.

That said....nothing I posted was inaccurate. I stated the reality of the situation.

Isn't it obvious? The team sucked for a decade, then totally botched a rebuild despite having two top 10 players in the game. The future is very cloudy right now and the playoffs will be tough to make again next season. The Oilers had a chance to set themsevles up as an elite franchise with the McDavid lottery win and so far they've totally botched it. How could an Oiler fan not be angry right now?

 

[guymez]

Isn't it obvious? The team sucked for a decade, then totally botched a rebuild despite having two top 10 players in the game. The future is very cloudy right now and the playoffs will be tough to make again next season. The Oilers had a chance to set themsevles up as an elite franchise with the McDavid lottery win and so far they've totally botched it. How could an Oiler fan not be angry right now?

Am I telling you not to be angry? Did I not mention that the season has been disappointing?

As I said in another thread. This team isnt worth the level of emotional investment that causes me to be angry for months.

You can do that if you like though.

 

[MikeGrier99]

Am I telling you not to be angry?

I'm just saying it's clear why any Oiler fan would be angry right now. It feels like the last 12~ years of following this team was for nothing and could very well continue that way.