Post-Game Talk: “The One That Got Cloned Angry”

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
52,498
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He has 22 PP points, including 5 goals. You want me to do that math on that one for you bud?



GWG are essentially random, it doesn't tell you much of anything.



Do...do you think SH% measures how hard a shot is? Does Drai have a high SH% this year because he's shooting harder?



i don't think we should trade him, silly goose.
The funny thing is for a muffin shot somehow it's still 1st line goal scoring production.

I agree on GWG, so random. Does goal 2 in a 5-1 game really mean that much?
 
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Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
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He has 22 PP points, including 5 goals. You want me to do that math on that one for you bud?



GWG are essentially random, it doesn't tell you much of anything.



Do...do you think SH% measures how hard a shot is? Does Drai have a high SH% this year because he's shooting harder?



i don't think we should trade him, silly goose.
Gwg are random? Not in OT they’re not. Nuge rarely sees the ice in OT, it’s not a coincidence. Comparing him to Draisaitl is hilarious, Nuge should give him his ‘A’ because he knows nothing about being a leader. Unless leading us to lottery picks is a good thing.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Add Kris Kreider to the list, Troechek would also be an improvement on wimpy Nuge

Kreider is two years older than Nuge with one fewer years on his contract and has worse production than Nuge over the course of his career. You guys can't stop clowning yourselves here, it's amazing.
 

Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
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I'd like to hear more about this winger that we're going to get in return for Nuge. I assume his cap hit will be less than $6M and has at least 2 years left on his contract? I'm also assuming that he's a 60+ point player that can play PP and PK? Who is this guy?
Nuge can’t pk, he can’t win a faceoff and our pk is ranked 30th. Pp? Haha, he does nothing but pass it to the point, could put any player we have in that position and if they shoot right they would be way more effective
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Gwg are random? Not in OT they’re not.

Uh, yes they are.

Nuge rarely sees the ice in OT, it’s not a coincidence.

So I guess that explains the lack of GWG, then. Glad we sorted that out.

[Mod]

Nuge should give him his ‘A’ because he knows nothing about being a leader. Unless leading us to lottery picks is a good thing.

The same Draisaitl who sleepwalked through the first half of the year should get the (utterly meaningless) A? Sure.
 
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Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
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Kreider is two years older than Nuge with one fewer years on his contract and has worse production than Nuge over the course of his career. You guys can't stop clowning yourselves here, it's amazing.
Oh no, 2 years older, how can we ever survive? What a joke. Kreider is a real winger, put him with McD or Draisaitl and it’s 40 goals a year. He’s faster than Nuge, hits and plays with heart and passion, Nuge has none of that
 

destro909

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Jan 3, 2008
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Rickard Rackell is making $3,789,444 for the next 3 seasons after this and had 69 points last year and had back to back 30 goal seasons before injuries this year on an aging team he only has 11 goals so he would be a bargain....sooo, maybe do some homework of your own before coming on here and making a fool out of yourself.

I was asking because I didn't know who you had in mind. If you think that asking questions when you don't know the answer is foolish then I don't know what to tell you.

By the way, Rakell had one 69 point season last year. Other than that, his career high is 51 points. He's on pace for 13 goals and 37 points this year. He doesn't look like a consistent point producer to me. Oh, and he doesn't play on the PK. You missed that in your "homework".
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
52,498
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Gwg are random? Not in OT they’re not. Nuge rarely sees the ice in OT, it’s not a coincidence. Comparing him to Draisaitl is hilarious, Nuge should give him his ‘A’ because he knows nothing about being a leader. Unless leading us to lottery picks is a good thing.
Kucherov has zero, Ovechkin has zero, Stamkos has zero, Crosby has 1, Petry has 2, Gustaffson has 2, Lablanc has 2.

Not sure what there is a whole lot to take out of OT goals
 

Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
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Uh, yes they are.



So I guess that explains the lack of GWG, then. Glad we sorted that out.



You have poor reading comprehension skills. This board shouldn't let children post here.



The same Draisaitl who sleepwalked through the first half of the year should get the (utterly meaningless) A? Sure.
You have no clue about anything you say, I would keep explaining how the game should be played but I don’t have the time or the crayons
 

Connorrhea

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Sep 17, 2005
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Just like Petry, Dubnyk, Schultz, Hall, Eberle before him, right?.

None of those players but Dubnyk, had been with the organization for almost 10 years and weren't living up to expectations so they had to go...Nuge has been hanging around too long and consistently performing below expectations so yeah, he hasn't been helping solve any problems.


Lord save us from people using raw plus minus in 2019. At 5v5 said:
You really think this is an irrelevant stat don't you? Good two way players are suppose to help prevent goals when they are on the ice....Mark Stone is a great two way player who has been playing on an even crappier team in Ottawa and he was a +15 last year and +13 this year because he provides offense (oh and he's a 60pts player unlike your buddy Nuge) but I guess playing on bad teams must be the reason he is a career +55.


That's...not what those stats mean..[/QUOTE said:
Hmm...let's see...Corsi is used to estimate puck possesion, the length of time a team control's the puck when that player is on the ice and below 50% is not that great.

Fenwick has a strong correlation to scoring chances and below 50% shows that Nuge doesn't create scoring chances by getting any dangerous shots through to the net so again, not helping his team but you seem to think you know everything.


Yeah it's good to only have three NHL calibre top 6 forward at a time said:
We have prospects developing to hopefully fill some of those needs and if we can get a better scoring winger for Nuge then why wouldn't we do that? Let's just stick with what has been failing and watch Kassian and Khaira pretend to be top 6 wingers.
 
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ujju2

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Apr 9, 2016
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Honestly anyone bashing Nuge when he's one of 5 or so legitimately good players on this team needs to just stfu. Apparently the centre who plays with shit wingers and is on pace for 68 points is the problem with this team? Especially considering he's just entering his prime? :huh: :shakehead

Edit: like seriously, f*** off people. This team literally has 3 good forwards. Also, I'm thinking it might finally be time for me to take a break from HFOil. Of course, knowing myself, that won't last long.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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None of those players but Dubnyk, had been with the organization for almost 10 years and weren't living up to expectations so they had to go...Nuge has been hanging around too long and consistently performing below expectations so yeah, he hasn't been helping solve any problems.

What are expectations here on a team where Nuge has been consistently one of just three NNL calibre forwards for pretty much his whole career?

You really think this is an irrelevant stat don't you?

Yes. plus minus is a deeply flawed stat that mixes a bunch of stuff together that ends up punishing good players on bad teams. As for the stuff about stone, he's an elite two way player on a team that hasn't been anywhere near as bad as the Oilers.

Hmm...let's see...Corsi is used to estimate puck possesion, the length of time a team control's the puck when that player is on the ice and below 50% is not that great.

Fenwick has a strong correlation to scoring chances and below 50% shows that Nuge doesn't create scoring chances by getting any dangerous shots through to the net so again, not helping his team but you seem to think you know everything.

And how do those numbers compare with the rest of the team? Because the Oilers have been a bad hockey team for a long time.

We have prospects developing to hopefully fill some of those needs and if we can get a better scoring winger for Nuge then why wouldn't we do that? Let's just stick with what has been failing and watch Kassian and Khaira pretend to be top 6 wingers.

You know it's possible to get players without getting rid of the good players you have first. i know as an Oilers fan that might be shocking, but it's true.
 
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Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
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I don't know why so many people love Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, he has been part of the problem over the years, not the solution. Quite frankly I find him to be a slow skater for a smaller player and I don't see him creating that much offensively and he has shown playing with McDavid that maybe he should be a winger because he needs someone to create something for him. He's a career -43 and he's suppose to be a good two way forward? His career corsi and fenwick are below 50% which means he's hurting the team more than helping. He's having a career year and yet he's only got 58 points, for a #1 overall pick in his 8TH SEASON!!!. He hasn't reached 60 points and he's almost played 10 years in the league and is having a career year when he's played a lot on McDavid's wing and on the PP.

All I see is way too many giveaways from him and players not picked up by him in the defensive zone that lead to goals. The power play numbers are pretty good this year because we have McDavid and Leon, but every time Nugent-Hopkins touches the puck he looks very unsure of himself and his place at the left wing side is frustrating to watch because he can't take a one-timer there and needs to be replaced with a right handed shot. One of the most important things I see in his game, or lack thereof, is passion and emotion. How many times do you see him display emotion on the ice, he looks like he doesn't care what happens out there.

He is the perfect candidate for trade bait for a team that needs a center and we can get a much better winger for the top 6 than anything we have now and Leon can move to the 2nd line center position which the team plays much better as when he and McDavid are split up.

Its one thing if a coach or two here and there seem overly appreciative of a player but in Nuge's case pretty much every coach he has had has viewed him the same way. The seem him as a player they can count on in all situations. How is it that they all fail to see things that posters here claim to see all the time? Is it possible that if you are looking for a player to make a mistake you will only register what you want to see?

People seem to think that this year is an anomaly as far as his numbers are concerned but last year he had 24 goals and 48 points in 62 games which pro rates over 70 games as 27 goals and 54 points or over 82 games as 32 goals and 64 points so his production over the two years has been pretty consistent. In raw numbers he is sitting in 73 spot amongst all forwards for points over the last two years. He is also tied for 67th in goals. If you look a players with 100 or more games he is 61st in ppg and 59th in gpg. All of this means that compared with the league average he is producing right at the cusp between the second and third most productive forward on a typical team.

The issue of him producing because he is on McDavid's wing also needs some scrutiny. Nuge has 106 points in the last two years. McDavid has points on 41 of those. That's 38.6% of his points. McDavid has 208 points on the 424 goals the team has scored in the last two years which is 49.1% of the goals scored. Of those 41 points McDavid has 14 goals and 18 primary assists. Nuge has 17 goals and 14 primary assists. At even strength Nuge has 1.25 g/60 and 1.25 a/60 with McDavid. With Puljujarvi these numbers are 1.16 g/60 and 1.65 a/60. With Lucic the numbers are 1.23g/60 and 1.36 a/60. (These are the three guys he played the most with over the last two years.) Just as was the case with Hall, Nuge's individual numbers actually go up or stay the same when he is away from the main line driver on the team.

As far as the Oilers being better with Draisaitl as a center that simply has not been the case. The issue here is not that Draisaitl is not better than Nuge it is that the difference in production between the two away from McDavid is quite a bit smaller than the gain you get when Draisaitl and McDavid play together. So if you trade Nuge for a winger that winger had better be able to come close to what you get from Leon on McDavid's line or the net result is a loss. For that to happen you are probably going to have to deal Nuge for a winger who scores 30 goals and 65 points on a regular basis. There are probably no more than 15 wingers in the game that would accomplish that on a regular basis even playing with McDavid. Noe of them, except possibly Kessel would be available for Nuge. In fact, even though I am clearly a fan of the player the primary reason you keep Nuge is so that you have the luxury to play Leon and McDavid together. That is a weapon you do not want to lose.
 

Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
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And yet you're the one who wants to trade him. Brain genius work.
So Nuge has 19 assists at even strength, Kharia has 14. 13 fewer games and way less time on ice. What a stud Nuge is, career year and all. Makes 10 times more than Kharia and your the genius that defends him, haha, what a joke
 

BudBundy

Registered User
May 16, 2005
5,765
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So Nuge has 19 assists at even strength, Kharia has 14. 13 fewer games and way less time on ice. What a stud Nuge is, career year and all. Makes 10 times more than Kharia and your the genius that defends him, haha, what a joke
Nuge is a good player on a team woefully short of them. Nobody says he’s a #1C on a cup contender, but he’s valuable, versatile, and productive. The dropoff in forwards after Nuge is like Thelma and Louise off the cliff. Nuge isnt even in the top 10 of problems yet you feel the need to crap on him. He’s having a career year playing with even strength heroes like Rieder and Khaira. Stop posting when you’re apparently drunk and angry.
 
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Dirt McGintty

Registered User
Jan 29, 2019
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So let me get this straight. Nuge at 6 million is the 48-61st highest paid forward and the 31st highest paid center in the league. He is currently producing the 58th most points among forwards and 30th in comparison to centers only. So production wise he is paid exactly what he should be. Yes he gets minutes with elite talent. When not with elite talent he plays with plugs, which evens out. I'm not even a huge Nuge guy but this is all bogus. Maybe, just maybe our three good forwards shouldn't need to play insane minutes in all situations. And if one of them didnt always have to play on a line with two players playing way too far up the lineup they would all be better off and more consistent. Let's bring in at least one more top six forward and see how Nuge and the top six look before we run him out of town.

The other thing that is blown way out of proportion is draft pedigree. People get so stuck on this but 2011 was a long time ago. Its irrelevant now. What matters now is his pay compared to his production. If he is paid and produces as a good second line player then who cares where he was drafted?
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
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I guess the one solace is that our next game is vs Arizona, and they are our target. But still, to throw away those two points was not okay. It's not just the points, but do we really have the horses to go at the pace we need if we can't put that team down?

But maybe. Any team can beat any other team on any night. We'll see
 

The Batman

Registered Superhero
Sep 30, 2014
3,216
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Not many highlights from the game but here's a few GIFs I forgot to share:

Khaira's nut shot
4FAlYm0.gif


Dishing out Currie
kISqzAI.gif


McDavid's 100th
6HFNU7c.gif



(Shameless plug: I usually post these at OILERZ (@oilerzmedia) | Twitter)
 

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