Zach (lightning rod) Hyman thread: love him or hate him

[Trapper]

Ideally I would want a heavy fast forward in return for JVR. We have some possibilities in the pipeline but they are a couple years away imo.
Then we have a heavy on each line
Hyman
???
Komarov
Martin
And if ??? is a better fit with Matthews then switch it up

That's not a bad idea. We are always focused on a "top 4 D" for JVR but a deal that could bring us back a player who is a Hyman/Komarov/Brown mix might be a good deal for us as well.
A Leivo with more speed type. Who can score a little, forecheck a lot and kill penalties.
If we don't re-sign Komarov, then I think the masses can accept a matchup line of a Hyman-Kadri-Brown/Kappy down the road. This is probably a better slot for Hyman but again, we lack the heavy right now.

 

[hotpaws]

[yt]
Looked like he had his head up there to see where Matthews was and he had a defender on his back and was drawing another defender to him opening space for Matthews.
I think you suffer from confirmation bias. He is not as bad as you think.
As for last year off season lineups, nobody here thought that line would be as good as they are that's why NONE of us work in the NHL
Hell even Babcock said he had to see how they played together but he thought they would be good together.

lol a 5 foot pass when he was barely moving and Mathews was stationary , do i need to dig up the endless head down passes to no one Hyman makes or his inability to pass to a moving target ? I remember Brown (forgot his first name) a few years back make a great rush for a goal , did that make him a good rush player ?

what does having to work in the NHl have to do with it ? people post endless line combinations every off season and i didn't see one person who now believes you have to have a Hyman player on our top line posting it last off season which basically means the vast majority believe that now due to the fact they need to agree with Babs and not because they feel that's the most effective use of AM/Willies skills

also you don't need to be an NHL coach to think putting 2 elite skilled players together with pretty much anyone would make for an effective line

hell i'll take you to any minor league rink and we'll easily find coach's who put there weak child with the teams most skilled players and then brag how well the line does (this not to say every minor league coach's kid is weak -some are very good- but many of them coach just to make sure there kid make the team and gets playing time)

 

[saltming]

lol a 5 foot pass when he was barely moving and Mathews was stationary , do i need to dig up the endless head down passes to no one Hyman makes or his inability to pass to a moving target ? I remember Brown (forgot his first name) a few years back make a great rush for a goal , did that make

what does having to work in the NHl have to do with it ? people post endless line combinations every off season and i didn't see one person who now believes you have to have a Hyman player on our top line posting it last off season which basically means the vast majority believe that now due to the fact they need to agree with Babs and not because they feel that's the most effective use of AM/Willies skills

also you don't need to be an NHL coach to think putting 2 elite skilled players together with pretty much anyone would make for an effective line

hell i'll take you to any minor league rink and we'll easily find coach's who put there weak child with the teams most skilled players and then brag how well the line does (this not to say every minor league coach's kid is weak -some are very good- but many of them coach just to make sure there kid make the team and gets playing time)

Honestly tour bias is showing. If you cannot see nor appreciate what went on in that play then we cannot have a reasonable discourse.
If you read through this thread, this very page you will see me having logical conversations about Hyman and solutions.

 

[hotpaws]

Honestly tour bias is showing. If you cannot see nor appreciate what went on in that play then we cannot have a reasonable discourse.
If you read through this thread, this very page you will see me having logical conversations about Hyman and solutions.

this your typical response , ignore post - take a shot at poster

and your solution is to acquire a player that isn't available , yea that's very logical , who'd of thought there'd be only a extremely small handful of players in the NHL that could replace the great Zach Hyman on our top line

and even if we did acquire Tkachuk Babs would play him with Marner and site there jr chemistry and you'd be right there with him

 

[ErnieLeafs]

this your typical response , ignore post - take a shot at poster

and your solution is to acquire a player that isn't available , yea that's very logical , who'd of thought there'd be only a extremely small handful of players in the NHL that could replace the great Zach Hyman on our top line

and even if we did acquire Tkachuk Babs would play him with Marner and site there jr chemistry and you'd be right there with him

The fact of the matter remains: The line doesn't need a "solution". It's our best line. It works because everyone pulls their share of the rope. I look forward to your child-like meltdowns for the next 82 games, despite the effectiveness of the line.

 

[hotpaws]

The fact of the matter remains: The line doesn't need a "solution". It's our best line. It works because everyone pulls their share of the rope. I look forward to your child-like meltdowns for the next 82 games, despite the effectiveness of the line.

the line works and it's our best line imo because combining

-Mathews - a franchise level talent
-Nylanader - a multi dimensional elite level talent

together with pretty much anyone would make for a very effective line

now you can disagree and you're entitled to your opinion but i'll just ask you one question , do you believe replacing Hyman with anyone of

-Marleau
-Brown
-Levio
-Kap

make that trio ineffective ?

 

[Shanty]

the line works and it's our best line imo because combining

-Mathews - a franchise level talent
-Nylanader - a multi dimensional elite level talent

together with pretty much anyone would make for a very effective line

now you can disagree and you're entitled to your opinion but i'll just ask you one question , do you believe replacing Hyman with anyone of

-Marleau
-Brown
-Levio
-Kap

make that trio ineffective ?

Absolutely not.

But it would probably make one of the other 3 lines much less effective. Is our goal to have a great line or a great team?

 

[hotpaws]

Absolutely not.

But it would probably make one of the other 3 lines much less effective. Is our goal to have a great line or a great team?

how does replacing Hyman with Levio -who probably isn't even going to dress- and Kap who's in the minors make our other 3 lines much less effective?

not to mention the Kads line has looked line crap and has already been called out by the coach

 

[bobermay]

how does replacing Hyman with Levio -who probably isn't even going to dress- and Kap who's in the minors make our other 3 lines much less effective?

not to mention the Kads line has looked line crap and has already been called out by the coach

Dude... you're so invested in your side of the debate that you won't even listen to our arguments...

We simply do not know whether another linemate will make the Matthews' line more or less effective... We do know that Hyman works... If you were to follow the precautionary principle, you stick with Hyman...

There is no reason to put Leivo or Kapanen on our top line right now...

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Dude... you're so invested in your side of the debate that you won't even listen to our arguments...

We simply do not know whether another linemate will make the Matthews' line more or less effective... We do know that Hyman works... If you were to follow the precautionary principle, you stick with Hyman...

There is no reason to put Leivo or Kapanen on our top line right now...

Kapanen is in the minors, and Leivo's in the pressbox. Hyman is the better choice. We have our talent spread out, each line has a mix of scorers and workers, and top to bottom, we have the depth to play with anyone.

It isn't broken, so why re-invent the wheel? I don't get some people on this board.

 

[saltming]

this your typical response , ignore post - take a shot at poster

and your solution is to acquire a player that isn't available , yea that's very logical , who'd of thought there'd be only a extremely small handful of players in the NHL that could replace the great Zach Hyman on our top line

and even if we did acquire Tkachuk Babs would play him with Marner and site there jr chemistry and you'd be right there with him

I didn't ignore your questions I've answered them previously. You on the other hand summarily dismiss anything not in your agenda.
Fact is we do not have anyone on our team at present that can play Hyman's role on that line. We have to deal with that. Or you could just belly ache about him pertinent ideas?
If Tkachuk comes in and has great chemistry with Marner and his line becomes s dominant as the Matthews line I'm all for that because it would make us a cup contender! That 1 2 punch followed by the Kadri line would decimate teams.


Fwiw Matthews and Tkachuk had great chemistry playing for USA so I think they could probably find it again here.

 

[Shanty]

how does replacing Hyman with Levio -who probably isn't even going to dress- and Kap who's in the minors make our other 3 lines much less effective?

not to mention the Kads line has looked line crap and has already been called out by the coach

Dude... you're so invested in your side of the debate that you won't even listen to our arguments...

We simply do not know whether another linemate will make the Matthews' line more or less effective... We do know that Hyman works... If you were to follow the precautionary principle, you stick with Hyman...

There is no reason to put Leivo or Kapanen on our top line right now...

This is what we keep saying.

Yes, it's possible Leivo or Kap could be effective on that line. No one here is debating that.

What we're debating is whether the positive impact to that one line would be beneficial to the organization as a whole.

Let's say you completely swap out Hyman for Leivo. Who are our PKing forwards now? Where does Leivo play when he isn't playing 5v5?

If it's Kap, are you not worried about him getting his bell rung by the Seabrooks of the league, whom he'll now be playing against every night?

Hyman's "lack of skill" is not a reason to move him. If the line starts struggling, then you tinker. You don't tinker when Matthews is throwing up hat tricks and Nylander looks all-world.

 

[hotpaws]

Dude... you're so invested in your side of the debate that you won't even listen to our arguments...

We simply do not know whether another linemate will make the Matthews' line more or less effective... We do know that Hyman works... If you were to follow the precautionary principle, you stick with Hyman...

There is no reason to put Leivo or Kapanen on our top line right now...

funny you say this when the poster i replied too agreed the line would be still effective with Hyman replaced

he was just making a point about how flipping players might impact the other lines and then i reminded him that Levio/Kap aren't even dressing and swapping one of them for Hyman wouldn't affect the other lines

 

[hotpaws]

I didn't ignore your questions I've answered them previously. You on the other hand summarily dismiss anything not in your agenda.
Fact is we do not have anyone on our team at present that can play Hyman's role on that line. We have to deal with that. Or you could just belly ache about him pertinent ideas?
If Tkachuk comes in and has great chemistry with Marner and his line becomes s dominant as the Matthews line I'm all for that because it would make us a cup contender! That 1 2 punch followed by the Kadri line would decimate teams.


Fwiw Matthews and Tkachuk had great chemistry playing for USA so I think they could probably find it again here.

funny how a great talent like Mathews seems to find CHEMISTRY with every player he plays with

 

[hotpaws]

Kapanen is in the minors, and Leivo's in the pressbox. Hyman is the better choice. We have our talent spread out, each line has a mix of scorers and workers, and top to bottom, we have the depth to play with anyone.

It isn't broken, so why re-invent the wheel? I don't get some people on this board.

if it wasn't broken why did our mgmt/coach try to fix it by signing Marleau ?

i'm thinking that maybe that regardless of whether it wasn't broken they thought they try to improve it

once upon a time wheels were made of wood , it worked and it wasn't broken but people thought they'd improve it and did , shocking i know

 

[Shanty]

funny you say this when the poster i replied too agreed the line would be still effective with Hyman replaced

he was just making a point about how flipping players might impact the other lines and then i reminded him that Levio/Kap aren't even dressing and swapping one of them for Hyman wouldn't affect the other lines

Read my other post for this same sentiment, but the point we aren't able to agree on is thinking of the team as one solid "unit". Pretend it's the military.

Let's say Hyman fills the role of infantry. His job is to run straight ahead, get as far into enemy lines as he can.

If you remove the infantry and replace it with double the air force, you'll probably win some battles more effectively. But... is that going to help you win the war?

 

[Shanty]

if it wasn't broken why did our mgmt/coach try to fix it by signing Marleau ?

i'm thinking that maybe that regardless of whether it wasn't broken they thought they try to improve it

once upon a time wheels were made of wood , it worked and it wasn't broken but people thought they'd improve it and did , shocking i know

I know the point you're trying to make, but this is turning into even more of an apples and oranges debate.

If Hyman's a wheel, you have to admit he's made of steel at worst.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

if it wasn't broken why did our mgmt/coach try to fix it by signing Marleau ?

i'm thinking that maybe that regardless of whether it wasn't broken they thought they try to improve it

once upon a time wheels were made of wood , it worked and it wasn't broken but people thought they'd improve it and did , shocking i know

Marleau makes the forward core more potent offensively, makes the core deeper, and provides a potential replacement in case someone like JVR is moved.

Your idea of taking Hyman completely out of the lineup for Kapanen or Leivo is ridiculous. It makes our team worse. All for what? So people like you can feel awesome about getting your way? So you can go to the main board and brag about a potential up-tick in offense? We added Marleau for leadership and more offense. We don't need to remove one of our best grinders/utility players for that.

Wanting to replace effective players with guys from the minors/pressbox, when the line is humming along like a well-oiled machine, is about the silliest thing I've seen argued on the board in a LONG time.

Again, just because you can't get your head around the fact that hockey is about more than simply production on the scoresheet, doesn't make your view of it correct.

 

[Trapper]

how does replacing Hyman with Levio -who probably isn't even going to dress- and Kap who's in the minors make our other 3 lines much less effective?

not to mention the Kads line has looked line crap and has already been called out by the coach

Regarding Leivo and Kapanen:
Babcock isn't a mystery and pretty easy to figure out. Everyone has to fill a role for him.
Why didn't Leivo and Kappy do exactly what Babcock wants Hyman to do on that line?

 

[hotpaws]

Read my other post for this same sentiment, but the point we aren't able to agree on is thinking of the team as one solid "unit". Pretend it's the military.

Let's say Hyman fills the role of infantry. His job is to run straight ahead, get as far into enemy lines as he can.

If you remove the infantry and replace it with double the air force, you'll probably win some battles more effectively. But... is that going to help you win the war?

the problem is you and others refuse to open your mind to what other players might offer to that line and also act like our other three lines are perfect

Marleau has shown nothing on the Kads line which has performed poorly but was effective last year with Brown on it . Brown seems lost on the 4th line but hey tough shit for him because we have no where else too put him since we're not moving Marleau/JVR/Hyman.

some people talk about building the most effective lines but then act like Hyman is an indispensable member of the Mathews line and refuse to believe any good could come from mixing up the line a little

if it was me i'd try

Mathews with Nylander/Marleau
Bozak with Marner/JVR
Kads with Komo/Brown
Alto with Hyman/Kap

imo there's plenty of ways to field a balanced lineup without having to glue Hyman to Mathews like some people believe

 

[hotpaws]

Marleau makes the forward core more potent offensively, makes the core deeper, and provides a potential replacement in case someone like JVR is moved.

Your idea of taking Hyman completely out of the lineup for Kapanen or Leivo is ridiculous. It makes our team worse. All for what? So people like you can feel awesome about getting your way? So you can go to the main board and brag about a potential up-tick in offense? We added Marleau for leadership and more offense. We don't need to remove one of our best grinders/utility players for that.

how do you know it would make us worse ?

Wanting to replace effective players with guys from the minors/pressbox, when the line is humming along like a well-oiled machine, is about the silliest thing I've seen argued on the board in a LONG time.

you do realize all these players had to come from some where don't you ?

Again, just because you can't get your head around the fact that hockey is about more than simply production on the scoresheet, doesn't make your view of it correct.

but you said if "it wasn't broke why fix it ?"

now you're agreeing with me about how we should be trying to continually improve the team , that's fine but that involves every member of the team and doesn't exclude Babs scared cow

and just to add this isn't just about Hyman , if he was never on our team Babs would have latched onto another similar type player like he did in Det like Abdelker or a washed up Cleary

 

[RLF]

when did i defend Perreault ? you like to accuse me of spinning your posts but then constantly turn around and ignore what i've said and fabricate points to argue against

I'm not going to go through every teams depth cart as well as also dig up the mins each line combination played just to have you and others ignore them and then again fabricate something i never said to argue against .

yea the vast majority of coach's try different line combinations over the course of the preseason/season and especially if they have the pieces available to them that Babcock has

last year i heard endlessly how Hyman was only a short term stop gap on AM's line to defend him and that he'd be replaced once we had more depth , well here we are with more depth and Hyman is still glued to AM's side without Babcock trying any other combination

i don't get his stubbornness , what could be the possibly downside of jiggling the lines for at least a couple of preseason games outside of letting the fan base see how a different linemate would look with our two elite kids

Babs job is to get the most out team with the pieces available to him , if you think this is the best lineup and combination of said lineup possible then we should just agree to disagree and move on .

When did you defend Perreault? Let's see, oh yea

"also why ignore

-Maroons 27 goals compared to super Zach's 10
-Perrault's 32 asst's which is more than super Zach's total points
-Bergeron's selke winning D"

This is your response to me saying that Toronto isn't the only team with a guy on the top line despite either their goal or assist production Of course you contradicted yourself later by telling me to go to the Oilers board and tell them I think Maroon is irreplaceable on that line and see what Oiler fans say. Which by the way, is something I still haven't said about Hyman, though you still accuse it. Asked you to show me where I did and....crickets. No where have you admitted you can't find it nor have you admitted that what you put is defending that Perreault is a better fit on his line than Hyman has been on his.

Let's check Maroons production compare to McDavid 5vs5 since I am apparently ignoring that as well.
McDavid 71 ES pts, Maroon 36 ES pts =50.7% of the production of McDavid where Hyman is 50% of Matthews.
Are you going to tell me Edmonton has no depth?

I totally admit I put Bergeron in their just to go to the extreme and he totally belongs on there.

I have heard from you the same stuff and no where have I said the line-up is perfect or the lines are perfect. I don't have the issue with this, you do. You want Babcock to do something different and have said that Hyman is a poor choice. I have just said he isn't as poor as you guys suggest and have clearly showed that. You duck and evade. You give no credit when clear examples are shown, comparable stats, comparable usage on other teams or even against our own players. It doesn't matter to you, you just want everyone to agree you are right even though you have very little than an opinion to back yourself. If Babcock is stubborn, than so is 30-50% of the coaches who have lowish point total guys on their top line and continue to play them there.
I have no issues if he keeps the line the same because the line has clicked, you do. I have no issues if he tries something new, that is the only thing you will except...which stance seems more reasonable.

You notice even though now it is you saying maybe we should move on, I didn't throw out some condescending "you just run along now. lol"


​

 

[RLF]

Honestly tour bias is showing. If you cannot see nor appreciate what went on in that play then we cannot have a reasonable discourse.
If you read through this thread, this very page you will see me having logical conversations about Hyman and solutions.

I see you found your patience reserves.lol

 

[BlueForever75]

I like the balance Babcock has on his top 3 lines. He has a strong forchecker, playmaker and finisher on each line. Its fantastic and not the first coach to do this. Quinn did it here when Mogilny-Sundin-Tucker played together. There were definitely players more worthy and talented then Tucker on that team. But the balance is what made that line excel. Mogilny wasn't going into the corners. Someone had to.

In this case Hyman is no different then Komarov on line 3. Good defensively, speed and grinds for the other players. I would rather have the scoring on 3 lines then 2. I like it.

 

[hotpaws]

When did you defend Perreault? Let's see, oh yea

"also why ignore

-Maroons 27 goals compared to super Zach's 10
-Perrault's 32 asst's which is more than super Zach's total points
-Bergeron's selke winning D"

This is your response to me saying that Toronto isn't the only team with a guy on the top line despite either their goal or assist production Of course you contradicted yourself later by telling me to go to the Oilers board and tell them I think Maroon is irreplaceable on that line and see what Oiler fans say. Which by the way, is something I still haven't said about Hyman, though you still accuse it. Asked you to show me where I did and....crickets. No where have you admitted you can't find it nor have you admitted that what you put is defending that Perreault is a better fit on his line than Hyman has been on his.

Let's check Maroons production compare to McDavid 5vs5 since I am apparently ignoring that as well.
McDavid 71 ES pts, Maroon 36 ES pts =50.7% of the production of McDavid where Hyman is 50% of Matthews.
Are you going to tell me Edmonton has no depth?

I totally admit I put Bergeron in their just to go to the extreme and he totally belongs on there.

I have heard from you the same stuff and no where have I said the line-up is perfect or the lines are perfect. I don't have the issue with this, you do. You want Babcock to do something different and have said that Hyman is a poor choice. I have just said he isn't as poor as you guys suggest and have clearly showed that. You duck and evade. You give no credit when clear examples are shown, comparable stats, comparable usage on other teams or even against our own players. It doesn't matter to you, you just want everyone to agree you are right even though you have very little than an opinion to back yourself. If Babcock is stubborn, than so is 30-50% of the coaches who have lowish point total guys on their top line and continue to play them there.
I have no issues if he keeps the line the same because the line has clicked, you do. I have no issues if he tries something new, that is the only thing you will except...which stance seems more reasonable.

You notice even though now it is you saying maybe we should move on, I didn't throw out some condescending "you just run along now. lol"​

nice that you only posted part of my post to make it look like i'm defending these guys which i never did , i simply posted some stats you decided to exclude

correct me if i'm wrong but basically all i'm getting from this post and especially the boded parts is you have no opinion on our lineup one way or another and are just here to defend Babcocks decisions

that fine , lots of people over years have been pissed at me for voicing my opinion which for some reason people believe shouldn't differ from the teams​