Zach Hyman vs Michael Bunting

[dirtydanglez]

leafs made a mistake getting rid of hyman

 

[Sens9292]

Contracts are irrelevant. Bunting will get paid shorty

 

[wintersej]

What they needed was both

 

[LeafsNation75]

Sure. And if Hyman ends up with more points than Marner you won’t have your argument.
But as of right now they are about equal which is a fact not an argument. I never argued that Hyman would end up with more points. You’re confusing facts with arguments.

I still don't know why your so fixated on comparing Marner and Hyman? When they played together in Toronto Marner was the better player. Even if Hyman ends up with more points than him this season won't change that.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I still don't know why you’re so fixated on comparing Marner and Hyman? When they played together in Toronto Marner was the better player. Even if Hyman ends up with more points than him this season won't change that.

I don’t know why a Leaf fan would make a poll comparing Bunting and Hyman. Hyman is clearly a much better player. As I said he’s producing at the same rate as Marner which really hammers home how big the gap is.
Again, never once did I say Hyman was better than Marner. That’s your Leafs victim complex coming through. Lol !

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don’t know why a Leaf fan would make a poll comparing Bunting and Hyman. Hyman is clearly a much better player. As I said he’s producing at the same rate as Marner which really hammers home how big the gap is.

Bunting did have more points in his first season in Toronto than Hyman did during the six years Hyman was with the Maple Leafs.

Now if you want to compare Marner with Hyman maybe you should have made a poll asking which player you would take?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

I mean, if we consider what this thread is saying wouldn't Bunting be 100+ point forward on Edmonton?

If hes playing better than Hyman ever did in Toronto but is being held back by Matthews and Marner, just think of what he could accomplish in Edmonton!

Edit: And hes still eligible for rookie of the f***in year!

 

[LeafsNation75]

If hes playing better than Hyman ever did in Toronto but is being held back by Matthews and Marner, just think of what he could accomplish in Edmonton!

I said this before and I will say it again.

How come last season when Matthews and Marner were playing with Bunting at 5v5, we saw Matthews score 60 goals and 106 points, along with winning the Hart Trophy, Ted Lindsay Award, and his 2nd straight Rocket Richard Trophy.

Marner also had a career high 35 goals and 97 points.

They didn't have those career years with Hyman when he was playing on their line during his time in Toronto.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

I said this before and I will say it again.

How come last season when Matthews and Marner were playing with Bunting at 5v5, we saw Matthews score 60 goals and 106 points, along with winning the Hart Trophy, Ted Lindsay Award, and his 2nd straight Rocket Richard Trophy.

Marner also had a career high 35 goals and 97 points.

They didn't have those career years with Hyman when he was playing on their line during his time in Toronto.

I mean, I guess but you never really considered that none of that matters at all when you can just ignore it and pretend Hyman is better.

To quote Charlie Kelly "That's politics, bitch!"

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Bunting did have more points in his first season in Toronto than Hyman did during the six years Hyman was with the Maple Leafs.

Now if you want to compare Marner with Hyman maybe you should have made a poll asking which player you would take?

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it.
I just said I wasn’t comparing Hyman to Marner. Clearly Marner is the better player and clearly Hyman is better than Bunting. I doubt that a GM in the league would take Bunting over Hyman based purely on value if you ignore contracts.
Take the time to read posts before responding.
That’s my last response to you until you show that you can respond to the points raised in my post.

 

[Koivu11]

I said this before and I will say it again.

How come last season when Matthews and Marner were playing with Bunting at 5v5, we saw Matthews score 60 goals and 106 points, along with winning the Hart Trophy, Ted Lindsay Award, and his 2nd straight Rocket Richard Trophy.

Marner also had a career high 35 goals and 97 points.

They didn't have those career years with Hyman when he was playing on their line during his time in Toronto.

Well that settles it, Bunting > Hyman.

It wouldn’t have been possible for Matthews and Marner to have improved or have a better season on their own. /s

 

[Canadian Finn]

I'll take the author.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it.
I just said I wasn’t comparing Hyman to Marner. Clearly Marner is the better player and clearly Hyman is better than Bunting. I doubt that a GM in the league would take Bunting over Hyman based purely on value if you ignore contracts.
Take the time to read posts before responding.
That’s my last response to you until you show that you can respond to the points raised in my post.

If a GM values experience, obviously they would take Hyman over Bunting.

However, if you claim you weren't comparing Hyman to Marner, I still don't know why you said this?

Hyman is performing at the same level as Marner this year in terms of points. He’s taken his game to another level.

Yes, it's true that they are at the same level in terms of total points. Although last time I checked this was a poll asking who you would choose between Bunting and Hyman? It doesn't say who do you choose between Marner and Hyman?

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

If a GM values experience, obviously they would take Hyman over Bunting.

However, if you claim you weren't comparing Hyman to Marner, I still don't know why you said this?

Yes, it's true that they are at the same level in terms of total points. Although last time I checked this was a poll asking who you would choose between Bunting and Hyman? It doesn't say who do you choose between Marner and Hyman?

Because he’s illustrating the vast gap between Hyman and buntings production by showing that he’s closer to marners.

He’s not saying Hymans better than marner. I have no idea why this is so hard for you.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well that settles it, Bunting > Hyman.

It wouldn’t have been possible for Matthews and Marner to have improved or have a better season on their own. /s

Don't complain that I'm just stating a fact that happens to be true.

 

[pcruz]

Bunting did have more points in his first season in Toronto than Hyman did during the six years Hyman was with the Maple Leafs.

Now if you want to compare Marner with Hyman maybe you should have made a poll asking which player you would take?

There isn't a single GM stupid enough to ever consider Hyman over Marner.

 

[The Nuge]

Why is it so hard to believe Hyman has improved? I know he’s 30, but he’s a guy who’s where he is because he’s going to outwork everyone else, and is always trying to learn. Leaf fans saw his progression in Toronto, and it’s continued in Edmonton. I’ve said it on our board, but the 2 shortened seasons were huge in saving us money. He’d taken his game to a new level but didn’t have a full season to prove it. Just look at PPG over his career.

0.375 (31 point pace)
0.341 (28 point pace)
0.489 (40 points pace)
0.577 (47 point pace)
0.725 (59 point pace)
0.767 (63 point pace)
0.710 (58 point pace)
1.185 (97 point pace)

It was close last year, but it’s silly to suggest it’s even worth debating with how Hyman is playing this year

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Why is it so hard to believe Hyman has improved? I know he’s 30, but he’s a guy who’s where he is because he’s going to outwork everyone else, and is always trying to learn. Leaf fans saw his progression in Toronto, and it’s continued in Edmonton. I’ve said it on our board, but the 2 shortened seasons were huge in saving us money. He’d taken his game to a new level but didn’t have a full season to prove it. Just look at PPG over his career.

0.375 (31 point pace)
0.341 (28 point pace)
0.489 (40 points pace)
0.577 (47 point pace)
0.725 (59 point pace)
0.767 (63 point pace)
0.710 (58 point pace)
1.185 (97 point pace)

It was close last year, but it’s silly to suggest it’s even worth debating with how Hyman is playing this year

I agree it’s ridiculous to compare Hyman and Bunting. Not a single GM would take Bunting over Hyman. Hyman is on a completely different level.

 

[Koivu11]

Don't complain that I'm just stating a fact that happens to be true.

It’s funny how you twist the facts to make your boys look good.

 

[AvroArrow]

Why is it so hard to believe Hyman has improved? I know he’s 30, but he’s a guy who’s where he is because he’s going to outwork everyone else, and is always trying to learn. Leaf fans saw his progression in Toronto, and it’s continued in Edmonton. I’ve said it on our board, but the 2 shortened seasons were huge in saving us money. He’d taken his game to a new level but didn’t have a full season to prove it. Just look at PPG over his career.

0.375 (31 point pace)
0.341 (28 point pace)
0.489 (40 points pace)
0.577 (47 point pace)
0.725 (59 point pace)
0.767 (63 point pace)
0.710 (58 point pace)
1.185 (97 point pace)

It was close last year, but it’s silly to suggest it’s even worth debating with how Hyman is playing this year

Legitimate question. How much of his increase in point production do you believe is solely because of playing with McDavid ?

I watched a couple Oilers games including last nights, I've always loved Hyman. Just a complete work horse, always plays with maximum effort. That play when he took the hit to get McDavid the puck for the Nuge goal (1st one I believe?) was the kind of plays he'd always make in Toronto on a nightly basis. From what I've seen, he's playing just as good there as he did here, he has the work ethic. The difference is playing with the worlds best player and on the best PP unit in the league. He may have improved, but not enough where we can say his 40 point increase is all on him. He definitely has chemistry with McDavid, he does a great job on the forecheck and getting him the puck. But remove him from the worlds best player, I think he's a 60-65 point player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Legitimate question. How much of his increase in point production do you believe is solely because of playing with McDavid ?

I watched a couple Oilers games including last nights, I've always loved Hyman. Just a complete work horse, always plays with maximum effort. That play when he took the hit to get McDavid the puck for the Nuge goal (1st one I believe?) was the kind of plays he'd always make in Toronto on a nightly basis. From what I've seen, he's playing just as good there as he did here, he has the work ethic. The difference is playing with the worlds best player and on the best PP unit in the league. He may have improved, but not enough where we can say his 40 point increase is all on him. He definitely has chemistry with McDavid, he does a great job on the forecheck and getting him the puck. But remove him from the worlds best player, I think he's a 60-65 point player.

Last season when Hyman had 54 points in 76 points, did he ever play with McDavid at 5v5 or on the power play?

 

[AvroArrow]

Last season when Hyman had 54 points in 76 points, did he ever play with McDavid at 5v5 or on the power play?

Yup, McDavid finished with 123 last season, he's pacing for 148 this year. Hymans production has jumped up with McDavids as well. There's been a huge increase in production in McDavids point totals, as well as Hymans.

Assume McDavid finishes with 148 (what he's pacing for) It's a 25 point jump. Apply that to Hyman brings him to about 83 points in a 82 game season, he's pacing for what 97 ? So it is very possible that Hyman has gotten better and improved his chemistry with his new team, but most of the increase in production is pretty obviously directly because of McDavid. Then again, you can also suggest that McDavid is producing at a better rate because of more help from Hyman and better chemistry between them.

Honestly though, it's just a good player benefiting from playing with the games best player. Good for Hyman that he's doing well in Edmonton, he's exactly what we're desperately missing right now. Gritty top 6 LW, plays all situations, produces offensively, great on the PK, good on the PP and phenomenal on the forecheck.

If we're talking best value based on contract, it's Bunting ainec. Ignore contracts, I take Hyman over Bunting easily without thinking twice.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If we're talking best value based on contract, it's Bunting ainec. Ignore contracts, I take Hyman over Bunting easily without thinking twice.

I'm not saying this will happen with Bunting, but what if re-signs in Toronto with the contract Nick Paul got from Tampa Bay? That was 7 years at $3.15 million AAV. I think that would be a fair deal for Bunting and a huge raise over the $950,000 AAV he is currently making. Plus, he would still make less than the $5.5 million Hyman is getting from the Oilers.

 

[AvroArrow]

I'm not saying this will happen with Bunting, but what if re-signs in Toronto with the contract Nick Paul got from Tampa Bay? That was 7 years at $3.15 million AAV. I think that would be a fair deal for Bunting and a huge raise over the $950,000 AAV he is currently making. Plus, he would still make less than the $5.5 million Hyman is getting from the Oilers.

It would be fair value at that point for Bunting. The beef with the Hyman contract wasn't ever the amount, it was the term. But if you're going to win now, it doesn't matter. I'd rather pay an extra 2-2.5M and have Hyman over Bunting, if I had to choose one.

Our cap situation just forced us to walk away from Hyman

 

[LeafsNation75]

It would be fair value at that point for Bunting. The beef with the Hyman contract wasn't ever the amount, it was the term. But if you're going to win now, it doesn't matter. I'd rather pay an extra 2-2.5M and have Hyman over Bunting, if I had to choose one.

Our cap situation just forced us to walk away from Hyman

According to this story from Chris Johnston he said Dubas wanted to re-sign Hyman to a max 8 year contract. Where they couldn't agree was on the money.

In Maple Leafs' talks with Oilers about Hyman, Dubas isn't bending the knee

If the Oilers come around to Kyle Dubas' way of viewing the situation, a sign-and-trade for Zach Hyman could still happen. But there doesn’t appear to be a compromise. Right now, the Maple Leafs' GM isn’t bending the knee for anyone.

www.sportsnet.ca

It had been his hope to keep Hyman in Toronto, extending a max term eight-year offer after the season. But he couldn’t get close to the kind of money on the table in Edmonton. That prompted Dubas to grant Hyman’s agent, Todd Reynolds, permission to speak to other teams and set the table for the possibility of the NHL’s first ever sign-and-trade agreement.