Your opinion: Are Capuano and Snow still with us next year?

[MJF]

I will try to give them a clean slate, but look at the ownership since the '80s' and tell me we don't have a reason to be skeptical right off the bat.

I grant you ownership has never been a strong suit of the Islanders, but I'll give Ledecky a few weeks to impress me.

 

[MJF]

I will try to give them a clean slate, but look at the ownership since the '80s' and tell me we don't have a reason to be skeptical right off the bat.

Ownership was bad practically from day 1 with Roy Boe. I've always said it's a miracle the Islanders didn't fold in 1979.

 

[Quicklime]

Bit of a surprise to see so many thinking Snow returns - despite the hell he catches, he's managed to put together a roster that needs 2 skaters and a new coach.

First round exit and bye-bye Cappy, though.

 

[Sparksrus3]

I think the Capuansno combination is here to stay

 

[periferal]

I don't hate snow, but I will never be a fan of his until he...

1. Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power).
2. Gets at least one legit 1st line winger to play with Tavares
3. Has the Islanders win a playoff round under his watch (doing the first two things I'm confident will make this happen).

All that said...If Ledecky/Malkin hire George McPhee as our next GM, even in 5 years, I'm going to vomit and that will tell us they don't know what they're doing. All you need to know is Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat, but if you want to know the full extent of the damage, read this:

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/4/26/5655838/george-mcphee-capitals-fired-analysis

I'm sure many out there have no idea that McPhee is already employed by the Islanders as "Special Advisor to GM Garth Snow." That means as of this very moment, he's swinging two bats in the on-deck circle. If Snow is fired, you can almost guarantee McPhee is on the shortest list of candidates if not already the choice.

I'm scared for all of us.

 

[blitzkriegs]

I don't hate snow, but I will never be a fan of his until he...

1. Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power).
2. Gets at least one legit 1st line winger to play with Tavares
3. Has the Islanders win a playoff round under his watch (doing the first two things I'm confident will make this happen).

.

Can you provide an example of a 'real coach' that is available that would threaten his power?

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Between Capuano, Weight, and McPhee it feels like we have two choices - the fire or the frying pan, and the frying pan is on fire.

I hope Snow stays and Capuano goes. Hopefully the new owners do not pull a Wang on us and keep Capuano. If coaching was a gunfight Capuano would be a single shot plinker with iron sights.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Can you provide an example of a 'real coach' that is available that would threaten his power?

How about, a coach that doesn't't offer any resistance. Certainly you can think of a few fractured coaching, management teams.

My apologies to Periferal for chiming in.

 

[Frankie41987]

Can you provide an example of a 'real coach' that is available that would threaten his power?

What does 'threaten his power' mean?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I don't hate snow, but I will never be a fan of his until he...

1. Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power).
2. Gets at least one legit 1st line winger to play with Tavares
   [*]Has the Islanders win a playoff round under his watch (doing the first two things I'm confident will make this happen).

Agree with the bolded 100%

 

[periferal]

I don't hate snow, but I will never be a fan of his until he...

1. Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power).
2. Gets at least one legit 1st line winger to play with Tavares
3. Has the Islanders win a playoff round under his watch (doing the first two things I'm confident will make this happen).

All that said...If Ledecky/Malkin hire George McPhee as our next GM, even in 5 years, I'm going to vomit and that will tell us they don't know what they're doing. All you need to know is Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat, but if you want to know the full extent of the damage, read this:

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/4/26/5655838/george-mcphee-capitals-fired-analysis

I'm sure many out there have no idea that McPhee is already employed by the Islanders as "Special Advisor to GM Garth Snow." That means as of this very moment, he's swinging two bats in the on-deck circle. If Snow is fired, you can almost guarantee McPhee is on the shortest list of candidates if not already the choice.

I'm scared for all of us.

Can you provide an example of a 'real coach' that is available that would threaten his power?

How about, a coach that doesn't't offer any resistance. Certainly you can think of a few fractured coaching, management teams.

My apologies to Periferal for chiming in.

What does 'threaten his power' mean?

The "connect the dots" moment was supposed to be this...

"Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power)" = Stop hiring inexperienced, inexpensive coaches that no other team would hire and therefore are grateful to Snow to have that position and therefore won't make him look incompetent to an incompetent owner since Snow himself is lucky to have the job he has as no other owner is silly enough to give him the GM role...And instead hire the right person for the head coaching job which means someone that may agree with Snow, but also may disagree with him because Snow cannot always be right despite the fact it feels like he's trying to create and control a front office where it looks like he always is.

Run-on sentences be damned.

The point is...What do you think the dynamic would be if we Mike Babcock as coach between he and Snow? I guarantee with as much belief as I have that Snow would be intimidated by a guy who knows what he's doing and more respected around the league than Snow is.

I also guarantee that guys like Bailey, Strome, Lee, and Nelson would be a lot better players and as a result we'd be closer to contenders than a team struggling for the 8th playoff spot each season.

 

[seafoam]

The new owners officially take over July 1st if I remember. It's highly unlikely they fire a GM that late into the offseason. Snow will be here at the start of next season.

Capuano is less likely to be here at the start of next season, but that isn't saying much.

I'd really love to get John Stevens from LA, who has been an assistant under Sutter for quite a while and works primarily with the defense. I think he is Sutter's heir apparent, and Lombardi hasn't granted teams permission to speak with Stevens, but if Sutter gets another contract extension, that situation could change.

 

[Donnico1]

If Ledecky is watching and has any sense, they are both gone.
Snow mainly because he supports Capuano.
As much as I hate to feel this way, the team does not look like a playoff contender and may not be a playoff team at all.
They stink when they are too tired and they stink when they are rested.
In between they are mediocre.

The passive system Cappy has installed is ruination.
Both gone this off season.

Not trying to be a jerk, but what evidence do you have that the isles have adopted a more passive system than last year?

 

[CREW99AW]

I don't hate snow, but I will never be a fan of his until he...

1. Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power).
2. Gets at least one legit 1st line winger to play with Tavares
3. Has the Islanders win a playoff round under his watch (doing the first two things I'm confident will make this happen).

All that said...If Ledecky/Malkin hire George McPhee as our next GM, even in 5 years, I'm going to vomit and that will tell us they don't know what they're doing. All you need to know is Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat, but if you want to know the full extent of the damage, read this:

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/4/26/5655838/george-mcphee-capitals-fired-analysis

I'm sure many out there have no idea that McPhee is already employed by the Islanders as "Special Advisor to GM Garth Snow." That means as of this very moment, he's swinging two bats in the on-deck circle. If Snow is fired, you can almost guarantee McPhee is on the shortest list of candidates if not already the choice.

I'm scared for all of us.

McPhee was on the hotseat and trying to save his job when he made that awful Erat/Forsberg deal.
He is one of the last people I want calling the shots for the isles.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Not trying to be a jerk, but what evidence do you have that the isles have adopted a more passive system than last year?

If you have previous knowledge of systems you can easily tell what they're running by watching the game.

 

[Frankie41987]

The "connect the dots" moment was supposed to be this...

"Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power)" = Stop hiring inexperienced, inexpensive coaches that no other team would hire and therefore are grateful to Snow to have that position and therefore won't make him look incompetent to an incompetent owner since Snow himself is lucky to have the job he has as no other owner is silly enough to give him the GM role...And instead hire the right person for the head coaching job which means someone that may agree with Snow, but also may disagree with him because Snow cannot always be right despite the fact it feels like he's trying to create and control a front office where it looks like he always is.

Run-on sentences be damned.

The point is...What do you think the dynamic would be if we Mike Babcock as coach between he and Snow? I guarantee with as much belief as I have that Snow would be intimidated by a guy who knows what he's doing and more respected around the league than Snow is.

I also guarantee that guys like Bailey, Strome, Lee, and Nelson would be a lot better players and as a result we'd be closer to contenders than a team struggling for the 8th playoff spot each season.

I just don't buy into these power-obsessed Snow narratives. What issue is Snow so stubborn about, so immovable on his resolve that he is willing to jeopardize the team's success? Because there are plenty of selfish reasons for a GM to want his team succeed, especially a first job GM. It's the team's success that will secure his job, build his resume and reputation and secure future jobs. I just can't logically fathom Snow not hiring someone because he doesn't want their input on his signings, trades and roster moves. Especially considering Capuano's hire is much better explained by the entirely more reasonable explanation that Cappy was a cheap coach for a cheap owner. This explanation is substantiated by a lot of evidence over the past 10 years. Wang reporting his loses, salary cap floor rosters, moves to get around the cap etc. Your conspiracy explanation is predicated on a whole bunch of speculative points:
1) Snow gets off on being unchallenged
2) This is so important to him that he would forego trying to build his reputation as a winner so that he could hire someone that won't question what he does.
3) Capuano doesn't challenge anything Snow says

We don't have any knowledge of the interactions of any of these players that work for our franchise. So why go with the theory that relies on assumptions when it's so easily explained by money

 

[Donnico1]

If you have previous knowledge of systems you can easily tell what they're running by watching the game.

So what has changed? They're still running a 2-3 forcheck as far as I've seen. What are your observations?

 

[BillD]

Not trying to be a jerk, but what evidence do you have that the isles have adopted a more passive system than last year?

Legitimate question. By eye test, by comments of opposing coaches, players, and media, the Islanders do not present the head, relentless forecheck of last season. They were also known as a team that played what coaches said was a "pre-pinch" with their defense coming down the wall over the offensive blue line.
Todays attack is more of a 1 deep, 1 support, 1 high forward. F1 is the only deep forechecker, F2 is between the dots, and F3 is up at the top of the circles from the way I see it on TV. That's passive.
Am I wrong?

 

[Donnico1]

Legitimate question. By eye test, by comments of opposing coaches, players, and media, the Islanders do not present the head, relentless forecheck of last season. They were also known as a team that played what coaches said was a "pre-pinch" with their defense coming down the wall over the offensive blue line.
Todays attack is more of a 1 deep, 1 support, 1 high forward. F1 is the only deep forechecker, F2 is between the dots, and F3 is up at the top of the circles from the way I see it on TV. That's passive.
Am I wrong?

You might be right; I'l have to look more closely about how the forwards are positioned. To me it looks like a 2-3. Whatever the case its clear their forcheck is not nearly as relentless and this is hurting them. If this is a conscious decision by Cappy it just adds to the list of reasons why he should be fired.

Is the theory that the Washington series led Cappy to adopt a new system? Could moving one forward from the direct forcheck to betwen the dots have nerfed the entire team so much?

 

[Islanderfan17]

Cappy needs to go. No excuses, it is YEARS over due. We passed up on SO many good coaches while we kept him, and I think that falls on Wang and not Snow.

 

[Quicklime]

Cappy needs to go. No excuses, it is YEARS over due. We passed up on SO many good coaches while we kept him, and I think that falls on Wang and not Snow.

I'd agree, based on penny-pinching. If Wang wanted to hand a strong product to Team Harvard, he could have ponied up for Babcock. From what we know, no offer was made.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

I just don't buy into these power-obsessed Snow narratives. What issue is Snow so stubborn about, so immovable on his resolve that he is willing to jeopardize the team's success? Because there are plenty of selfish reasons for a GM to want his team succeed, especially a first job GM. It's the team's success that will secure his job, build his resume and reputation and secure future jobs. I just can't logically fathom Snow not hiring someone because he doesn't want their input on his signings, trades and roster moves. Especially considering Capuano's hire is much better explained by the entirely more reasonable explanation that Cappy was a cheap coach for a cheap owner. This explanation is substantiated by a lot of evidence over the past 10 years. Wang reporting his loses, salary cap floor rosters, moves to get around the cap etc. Your conspiracy explanation is predicated on a whole bunch of speculative points:
1) Snow gets off on being unchallenged
2) This is so important to him that he would forego trying to build his reputation as a winner so that he could hire someone that won't question what he does.
3) Capuano doesn't challenge anything Snow says

We don't have any knowledge of the interactions of any of these players that work for our franchise. So why go with the theory that relies on assumptions when it's so easily explained by money

There is nothing power mad about having your guy who offers zero resistance to you under you in a business setting. It is normal. The issue is if doing so at the expense of better candidates hurts the product more than keeping your guy in place. At least that's my take,and where I see Snow making a mistake. I'be yet to see anyone say Jack is at the top of the coaching scale. I see the defense of him here almost every time say he isn't in the upper echelon of coaches, but that he isn't the worst, or is good enough,etc. We can do better. Why Don't we?

 

[blitzkriegs]

What does 'threaten his power' mean?

Ask Periferal... just reciting his statement.

 

[BillD]

You might be right; I'l have to look more closely about how the forwards are positioned. To me it looks like a 2-3. Whatever the case its clear their forcheck is not nearly as relentless and this is hurting them. If this is a conscious decision by Cappy it just adds to the list of reasons why he should be fired.

Is the theory that the Washington series led Cappy to adopt a new system? Could moving one forward from the direct forcheck to betwen the dots have nerfed the entire team so much?

Yeah, I think we have the same complaint, which is a less aggressive, hard forecheck. The LAK are an example of a hard forecheck the Isles employed last year. F1 drove low and tried to separate the defenseman from the puck while F2 was available to assist or stay out below the hash marks down to near the blue paint to receive the pass r gather a loose puck. F3 was parallel to the dots ready to jump down and outnumber the defense, often creating a 2-1 or 3-2.
I can see where they do play a 2-3 but the 2 are many times staggered with one higher than the other. Not as bad as the old Devils attack where only 1 forward would be allowed below the goal line and the other two were much higher in the zone, past the dots.
Cappy wanted to create a more defensive system that can limit shots, and then transition of possession. Only we don't pressure enough and get trapped down low, don't transition well.

It's a trade off of sorts, only it has not worked well for us. Forwards aren't scoring, defense isn't scoring, and we give up too many shots. A small adjustment in forecheck could make all the difference.

 

[blitzkriegs]

The "connect the dots" moment was supposed to be this...

"Hires a real coach (which means one that might threaten his power)" = Stop hiring inexperienced, inexpensive coaches that no other team would hire and therefore are grateful to Snow to have that position and therefore won't make him look incompetent to an incompetent owner since Snow himself is lucky to have the job he has as no other owner is silly enough to give him the GM role...And instead hire the right person for the head coaching job which means someone that may agree with Snow, but also may disagree with him because Snow cannot always be right despite the fact it feels like he's trying to create and control a front office where it looks like he always is.

Run-on sentences be damned.

The point is...What do you think the dynamic would be if we Mike Babcock as coach between he and Snow? I guarantee with as much belief as I have that Snow would be intimidated by a guy who knows what he's doing and more respected around the league than Snow is.

I also guarantee that guys like Bailey, Strome, Lee, and Nelson would be a lot better players and as a result we'd be closer to contenders than a team struggling for the 8th playoff spot each season.

I can connect the dots all day long. Wang pays the bills, thus hires the coach. Wang hired cheap coaches during the time the organization was rebuilding and that's what HE wanted and the team was also UNMARKETABLE to any legit NHL coach. Crazy meddling owner, limited payroll, and guaranteed lottery finish annually - that's unattractive to MOST coaches that want to have another NHL job. Dan Bylsma went to a somewhat similar crappy situation, but he got protection in the form of a monster contract. Something Wang was not giving out AND something that is now becoming more common that coaches are getting paid big $.

Now, the Isles are past the point of all that nonsense. Wang spent money, the team is competitive, considered a playoff contender, and has a LOT of attractive players on it. Is the job marketable today to 'better' coaches? Darn right. Is the spot vacant? Nope. Why? Because during the time at the end of the shenanignas, Cappy got the team in the playoffs 2x in the past 3 years and most likely 3 in the past 4.

What GM is firing a a guy that did that? It's on Cappy to FAIL in the playoffs for a GM/Owner to say, you know what, he's not getting us over the hump. Done.

For now, he's here because it most circles he earned it much to the chagrin of the overly critical Isles fanbase. Isles fans wanted continuity, well, you got it. Now, it's not good enough or the wrong guy. Every other coach according to this group would have the Isles as the #1 seed and ahead of teams by 10 points at this stage...

Now, Snow, well, if the gets canned tomorrow, he is getting another GM job within 12 months. He's rebuilt an entire franchise from scratch and turned it into a playoff contender. His downside? Playoff success. He's close-to-the-vest, but power hungry? Maybe early on in his days, but he's demonstrated his competence to sit on the perch he's on.

Feel free to say 8 years w/o a playoff win or whatever, it's an easy comeback, but the bottom line is he gutted a franchise, the owner went with it because it was the cheap way to go, the team was unattractive to UFAs, coaches, etc. or anyone worth a damn, and now they are on the backend of that process. See what happens in April...