Your high hopes for Leaf prospects that fell through?

[Darkside Blue]

Kenny Jonsson was a fav. young player for me - got traded for Clark I believe and didn't last long with the Isles.

Bryan Berard's eye injury was the biggest let-down ever - I thought we had the makings of a very strong up and coming defense core then...

True prospect let-down definitely Pogge and Tellqvist.

Hope Percy can stay healthy or he may fall into this category - he has a pro game in there.

Poor Berard, such a gruesome injury. Does Jake Gardiner remind you of him a bit, the effortless skating?

 

[Bullseye]

Poor Berard, such a gruesome injury. Does Jake Gardiner remind you of him a bit, the effortless skating?

Honestly I haven't thought of that - Berard was a physically dominant player that excelled in both zones- he was an upcoming star who would have won the Norris.

I don't see those qualities in Jake. Gardner is a nice skater in an offensive direction but often blows a tire under pressure in a defensive role especially at the offensive blue-line when trying to deal with a turnover. Meh, that's water under the bridge - his stats show a game vital to a puck possession team so the future should be better for Jake than the past maybe Babs will bring something more out of him.

Anyway, losing Berard was huge for that Leaf team.

 

[timlap]

Honestly I haven't thought of that - Berard was a physically dominant player that excelled in both zones- he was an upcoming star who would have won the Norris.

....

Physically dominant? Not what I remember at all. And I don't remember him excelling in both zones either. I liked him, but he was falling a long way short of his draft hype as an offensive superstar.

If you're comparing him to Gardiner, I'd say Jake may be the better skater, but Berard had more offensive skills.

He might have developed into a pretty good player without the eye injury, but the Norris was a real longshot.

 

[The Iceman]

Berard loss was tragic. Young stud D in the makings.
I go way back so I will throw out 3 names that us fans were told would be world beaters

Rich Costello...BUST
Main piece in Darryl Sittler trade to Philly was a young HS stud drafted the 2nd round
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1110

Miroslav Ihnacak...BUST
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=28885

Vladimir Ruzicka...One that got away. Was traded for a 4th and was pretty damn good
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4716

 

[Derek Synak]

I remember a lot of Berard spinorama's at the blue line.

For me I was sad about Ware, Farkas and Convery.

 

[masarume]

Has anybody dropped Nik Antropov yet?
Was supposed to have been a Jason Allison type player.

His skating was atrocious but did round out to a decent low pairing 2C, decent 3C with the NHL.

 

[SourGrapes]

I remember telling someone I'd eat my hat if Justin Pogge wasn't the best goalie in the league by 2010.

I really miss that hat .

 

[studebaker17]

I remember a lot of Berard spinorama's at the blue line.

For me I was sad about Ware, Farkas and Convery.

Didn't like the Ware pick when it was made, reeked of nepotism from Bill waters.

 

[TheProspector]

I really liked Flaake. He scored at a ridiculous pace in Gernany's junior ranks at 15/16. Reminded me of Tlusty when I watched him play, but a bit more physical. Thought he'd be a good penalty killer. Ron Wilson had a lot of good things to say about him.

Jerome Flaake is a perfect example of the difficulty in comparing leagues, especially when one is very talent-thin.

He sure did look good in the U18 pre-draft. But it is such a small sample size. He was worth a shot in the 5th round.

Same with Stefanovich. Unfortunately, with Stefanovich, it looks like his early success was mostly due to being on an accelerated physical development curve. Call it the Luke Schenn curse: if your growth spurt happens 1.5 years before the rest of your peers, it can actually ****** the growth of your mental game. When they start playing against men in the NHL, they no longer have those advantages, and the tricks they had in puck retrieval, puck protection and takeaways that simply relied on larger wingspan, strength and weight are useless.

Hockey is starting to figure this out, which is why Mark Hunter selected Marner in the first round of the OHL, despite the fact that he was so small. At some point, the logic will shift to because he was so small. Little guys have to develop skills big guys don't have to. And little guys are often just late physical developers, and become medium or big guys.

 

[Mess]

Ernie Godden (Drafted by Toronto Maple Leafs - round 3 #55 overall 1981 NHL Entry Draft)

In 1980-81 Godden scored 87 goals in 68 games for Windsor which broke the OHL record for most goals in a season in the OHL, and I believe that record still stands to this day.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Schenn and Pogge are the two recent selections that really set this franchise back a long way.

The modern equivalent (for Pogge) would be if we decided right now that Marner made Kadri expendable so we dealt Kadri for someone that was a total bust, then watch as Marner busts and Kadri becomes the next Bergeron and wins a couple Conn Smythes and Stanley Cups.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't think I have any such examples.

Don't mean that as bragging though. I've just not been really high on any Leafs prospects since Strålman, and he became pretty much exactly what I expected in the end.

This will likely change going forward. I'm very excited about a whole bunch of our prospects, and some of them are bound to disappoint.

 

[Kessely Snipes]

Pogge. World junior hype saddly.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

That's a remarkable record for 10 years of talent evaluation.

Shanny, please sign this guy...he's a genius!

 

[Stephen]

Poor Berard, such a gruesome injury. Does Jake Gardiner remind you of him a bit, the effortless skating?

I'd say Bryan Berard was closer to Morgan Rielly than Jake Gardiner. More solid, more explosive but people did question his hockey sense a little bit. In '97 they said he was a Coffey/Chelios hybrid stylistically, and people thought he'd get there too.

 

[Stephen]

Schenn and Pogge are the two recent selections that really set this franchise back a long way.

The modern equivalent (for Pogge) would be if we decided right now that Marner made Kadri expendable so we dealt Kadri for someone that was a total bust, then watch as Marner busts and Kadri becomes the next Bergeron and wins a couple Conn Smythes and Stanley Cups.

More like having Nylander and Marner and trading one for Cody Hodgson or something like that, the other busts and the other starts winning Hart Trophies.

 

[masarume]

I'd say Bryan Berard was closer to Morgan Rielly than Jake Gardiner. More solid, more explosive but people did question his hockey sense a little bit. In '97 they said he was a Coffey/Chelios hybrid stylistically, and people thought he'd get there too.

He had the offensive gifts, but he his positioning and physicality was nowhere near Chelios.

 

[TeamBester]

ernie godden (drafted by toronto maple leafs - round 3 #55 overall 1981 nhl entry draft)

in 1980-81 godden scored 87 goals in 68 games for windsor which broke the ohl record for most goals in a season in the ohl, and i believe that record still stands to this day.

jeremy williams time

 

[Wendelstache]

Berehowsky and Berard ...

Ironically, both went down due to freak injuries.

Berehowsky broke his leg in Chicago, Berard lost an eye.

 

[Stephen]

He had the offensive gifts, but he his positioning and physicality was nowhere near Chelios.

He wasn't even close to Chelios, but that's what people were whispering at the time.

He did have a decent mean streak but not nearly as close and his defensive game was lacking.

 

[Teeder9]

Jerome Flaake is a perfect example of the difficulty in comparing leagues, especially when one is very talent-thin.

He sure did look good in the U18 pre-draft. But it is such a small sample size. He was worth a shot in the 5th round.

Same with Stefanovich. Unfortunately, with Stefanovich, it looks like his early success was mostly due to being on an accelerated physical development curve. Call it the Luke Schenn curse: if your growth spurt happens 1.5 years before the rest of your peers, it can actually ****** the growth of your mental game. When they start playing against men in the NHL, they no longer have those advantages, and the tricks they had in puck retrieval, puck protection and takeaways that simply relied on larger wingspan, strength and weight are useless.

Hockey is starting to figure this out, which is why Mark Hunter selected Marner in the first round of the OHL, despite the fact that he was so small. At some point, the logic will shift to because he was so small. Little guys have to develop skills big guys don't have to. And little guys are often just late physical developers, and become medium or big guys.

There's been guys drafted in the OHL first round for years who were as small as Marner. Garlent and Salituro come to mind. Having those same guys be drafted in the NHL first round as a normality would be hockey figuring this out.

 

[Teeder9]

He wasn't even close to Chelios, but that's what people were whispering at the time.

He did have a decent mean streak but not nearly as close and his defensive game was lacking.

I remember hearing the Bryan Leetch comparables. I don't really remember the Chelios comparables, especially since even now, it seems odd considering by the time he was drafted, Chelios' game was as good defensively as offensively, and he was never known as a guy you wanted on the ice with a minute to go and the other team with the puck. Leetch was no slouch either but there wasn't any anger in his game like with Chelios

 

[Stephen]

I remember hearing the Bryan Leetch comparables. I don't really remember the Chelios comparables, especially since even now, it seems odd considering by the time he was drafted, Chelios' game was as good defensively as offensively, and he was never known as a guy you wanted on the ice with a minute to go and the other team with the puck. Leetch was no slouch either but there wasn't any anger in his game like with Chelios

They did call him a Leetch too! Being an American defenseman with wheels named Bryan and whatnot that was a natural comparison, but the Coffey/Chelios comparison is I believe from the Sports Forecaster from after his rookie season...

It's weird with Berard. The guy was a Calder winner in 1997, but by January 1999 the Islanders were ready to dump him. By the time he got to the Leafs, it seemed like they were trying to rebuild/reprogram him a little bit to be a better all around defenseman. Berard/Kaberle/Markov was a nice little trio for us.

 

[New Liskeard]

Honestly I haven't thought of that - Berard was a physically dominant player that excelled in both zones- he was an upcoming star who would have won the Norris.

I don't see those qualities in Jake. Gardner is a nice skater in an offensive direction but often blows a tire under pressure in a defensive role especially at the offensive blue-line when trying to deal with a turnover. Meh, that's water under the bridge - his stats show a game vital to a puck possession team so the future should be better for Jake than the past maybe Babs will bring something more out of him.

Anyway, losing Berard was huge for that Leaf team.

Berard was far from being a "physically dominant player" and definitely was not good defensively. He was an unbelievable skater with great offensive skills, but he was far from being good defensively and wasn't physical in the least. Did you actually watch him?

 

[Teeder9]

They did call him a Leetch too! Being an American defenseman with wheels named Bryan and whatnot that was a natural comparison, but the Coffey/Chelios comparison is I believe from the Sports Forecaster from after his rookie season...

It's weird with Berard. The guy was a Calder winner in 1997, but by January 1999 the Islanders were ready to dump him. By the time he got to the Leafs, it seemed like they were trying to rebuild/reprogram him a little bit to be a better all around defenseman. Berard/Kaberle/Markov was a nice little trio for us.

Add McCabe to those 3 later and things could have been far different in those playoff runs