You have 1 choice, Marner or Matthews .. Who do you keep?

[diceman934]

Since when has he had a childhood dream of wanting to play in Arizona?

It is his favourite team and he grew up watching them.

 

[diceman934]

Mathews is not our best player. Marner is, he plays on the PK and the PP, plays on the teams match up line. He creates offence for his line mates. Hyman had his best season playing with Marner even in less games. JT had his best season playing with Marner.

Like other historic wingers who drive offense he is our best player. You build around you best most important player not trade him.

 

[Boutette]

Actually his rookie year was great and he only had 3 years of okay production on a terrible team until he broke out in his 5th and 6th year and became a hart trophy candidate... Theres also no reason to use his first few years as a reference when development isn’t linear. I even said in my first post that this is “currently”. The fact is MacKinnon has outproduced Matthews the last two seasons in points and PPG while also showing he can take over the game when it matters most in the playoffs. Until Matthews actually does that I’m not going pretend to know the future.

Let's keep in mind that in the last 2 years Mac has played with both Ratanen and Landeskog on his wing on a one-line team. That's why Mac has outproduced Matthews in points (+ injuries and Nylander's hold out). Context should be important both ways.

 

[Mr Hockey]

MacKinnon is a pretty dominate beast when he puts it in high gear, Matthews is not there yet despite his scoring.

 

[Canadian Game]

Since when has he had a childhood dream of wanting to play in Arizona?

I said I can picture it happening sometime down the road. He grew up a Coyotes fan and is the biggest product to come out of Arizona. The possibility that he may want to wear the jersey and help grow the game even further there really isn’t that hard to imagine. Players do it everywhere else.

 

[Canadian Game]

If Marner wants to play in TO so much why isn't he giving the team any sort of hometown discount?

I didn’t say anything about Marner wanting to play in TO so much. I said that I think he is the most important player to the team and then said that I can picture Matthews eventually leaving in free agency, and eventually wanting to play in his native Arizona.

To answer your question though, some players take discounts. Most don’t. They aren’t required and I don’t blame any player who wants to earn the most they can while they’re healthy but it’s nice when they do (Crosby being a model example). Something that isn’t talked about (or even considered) much of the time is that the NHLPA also puts a lot of pressure on top free agents to go after the money rather than settling for discounts because it sets precedence for other FAs. It’s part of union mentality of fighting to help your fellow brothers.

 

[Boutette]

I didn’t say anything about Marner wanting to play in TO so much. I said that I think he is the most important player to the team and then said that I can picture Matthews eventually leaving in free agency, and eventually wanting to play in his native Arizona.

To answer your question though, some players take discounts. Most don’t. They aren’t required and I don’t blame any player who wants to earn the most they can while they’re healthy but it’s nice when they do (Crosby being a model example). Something that isn’t talked about (or even considered) much of the time is that the NHLPA also puts a lot of pressure on top free agents to go after the money rather than settling for discounts because it sets precedence for other FAs. It’s part of union mentality of fighting to help your fellow brothers.

Well, the trouble with the NHLPA putting pressure for players demanding the maximum possible actually doesn't help their fellow brothers, because the revenue share doesn't actually go up when a player gets $10 million. The salary cap doesn't go up when a player maxes out on his paycheck. All it does is benefit a few while the vast majority toil down at the bottom. If the NHLPA actually cared about the majority of its members, it would discourage massive paychecks for the few and demand that the league minimum be raised significantly.

 

[Boutette]

MacKinnon is a pretty dominate beast when he puts it in high gear, Matthews is not there yet despite his scoring.

Maybe so, but the Avalanche fans who trolled around here were oh so quick to point out that whenever Kerfoot was on Mac's line as a replacement player, Mac's offensive number were depressed. I think he depends a lot on his elite linemates to get the numbers he does. When in the past three years has Matthews had 2 60-90 pt. level linemates to play with 70+ games a year?

 

[Pi]

Mathews is not our best player. Marner is, he plays on the PK and the PP, plays on the teams match up line. He creates offence for his line mates. Hyman had his best season playing with Marner even in less games. JT had his best season playing with Marner.

Like other historic wingers who drive offense he is our best player. You build around you best most important player not trade him.

Good one.

Marner is our best player! That's why he needs to play with Tavares to produce.

Matthews because he's so inferior just puts up goals and points playing with the likes of Marleau, Johnsson, Kapanen and a Nylander who joined halfway through the season.

Jay McClement played on the PK. You don't see people saying he's better than Kessel.

Playing on the PK isn't hard.

The hardest skill in the league is to score goals and we have the best young guy in the entire league at it.

 

[diceman934]

Good one.

Marner is our best player! That's why he needs to play with Tavares to produce.

Matthews because he's so inferior just puts up goals and points playing with the likes of Marleau, Johnsson, Kapanen and a Nylander who joined halfway through the season.

Jay McClement played on the PK. You don't see people saying he's better than Kessel.

Playing on the PK isn't hard.

The hardest skill in the league is to score goals and we have the best young guy in the entire league at it.

JT scores more goals then he ever did. Playing with Marner. His 5 on 5 points were far better then ever. Marner did not need JT to produce at the same pace. He did that with Marleau and Kadri.

He was our best and most important player and carried the team. We did fine without Mathews this past season and the same the year before. Marner is not better because of his playing on the PK he simply is better.

 

[Squiffy]

There is no reason for him to take a discount.

Kucherov + 5% for same term.

None, and worth every penny. Pay the stars, sort out the rest, pray as Leaf fans for NBA style CBA. Yes I know that’s not happening.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Wow, Chi, had Kane and Toews, Pitts. had Crosby and Malkin but Toronto we have to choose? We cannot win a cup without both we simply too small and lack the grit and character. Analytics prove that. The only way we can win is too outskill with this team. Without both, we win nothing. With both the team blows up.

 

[Stephen]

JT scores more goals then he ever did. Playing with Marner. His 5 on 5 points were far better then ever. Marner did not need JT to produce at the same pace. He did that with Marleau and Kadri.

He was our best and most important player and carried the team. We did fine without Mathews this past season and the same the year before. Marner is not better because of his playing on the PK he simply is better.

Mitch Marner had a 25 point improvement on his previous season the year after we furnished him with an $11 million center.

John Tavares had a 4 point improvement from the year previous when he was on the Island.

What do you think happened there?

 

[Stephen]

JT scores more goals then he ever did. Playing with Marner. His 5 on 5 points were far better then ever. Marner did not need JT to produce at the same pace. He did that with Marleau and Kadri.

He was our best and most important player and carried the team. We did fine without Mathews this past season and the same the year before. Marner is not better because of his playing on the PK he simply is better.

Tavares saw a 4 point uptick in his first season in Toronto vs his last on the Island.

 

[IPS]

Mitch Marner had a 25 point improvement on his previous season the year after we furnished him with an $11 million center.

John Tavares had a 4 point improvement from the year previous when he was on the Island.

What do you think happened there?

Tavares also has had 2 years where he's finished top-5 in goals. He's been an elite goal-scorer long before he even knew who Marner was.

 

[Havoc]

Mathews is not our best player. Marner is, he plays on the PK and the PP, plays on the teams match up line. He creates offence for his line mates. Hyman had his best season playing with Marner even in less games. JT had his best season playing with Marner.

Like other historic wingers who drive offense he is our best player. You build around you best most important player not trade him.

Marner was one of the worst PP quarterbacks in the league last season. I'm sure his PPP / PP-time is still good but that was one of the worst powerplays I ever watched and it even cost us a playoff matchup. Just like Babcock he did nothing to adjust. Got stuck in the same 3 moves all season long.

Now don't get me wrong Marner is one of my favorite players but if Marner's play making efforts make him better than Matthews I definitely expect more than what I saw last season. Should be able to cook up plays even if the coach isn't.

Leaving Matthews out of it...I agree with everything you said. Putting your comment within the context of being better than Matthews...no chance.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Now don't get me wrong Marner is one of my favorite players but if Marner's play making efforts make him better than Matthews I definitely expect more than what I saw last season. Should be able to cook up plays even if the coach isn't.

bruh, once Marner had the puck on the sidewall teams made 3 of there 4 defenders face him and created a wall from the bottom to the top of the slot area with Kadri and Tavares jammed in there ... nothing Mitch can do, Rielly was only a pass option

 

[Havoc]

bruh, once Marner had the puck on the sidewall teams made 3 of there 4 defenders face him and created a wall from the bottom to the top of the slot area with Kadri and Tavares jammed in there ... nothing Mitch can do, Rielly was only a pass option

bruh players cover their face with their gloves and run plays all the time.

He's out there with Matthews Tavares and Rielly and his only option is to stay in the exact formation, let the defenders come and swing the puck to Rielly?

This is exactly why our PP sucks. "Aw man the teams are running the same defence on us for the 100000th time, time to swing the puck to Rielly instead of taking a day to think how to counter".

3 or 4 defenders is the whole pk unit lmao. Every single line mate is wide open. I'm sure something can be drawn up.

Leafs aren't the only team with a Marner. Other star players get double and triple teamed as well.

edit- And keep in mind the context is Marner better than Matthews. If that is true Marner should easily counter and put up Kucherov level powerplay assists.

 

[AllDay28]

Everyone in here has said Matthews right?

 

[Alexandre Magny]

Best Scorer = Matthews

Best Player Matthews or Marner, My choice Marner

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think over time, we will see that Matthews is the better player. In their rookie seasons, Matthews was obviously better. Last 2 seasons, Marner has been better because Matthews has run into some injuries. I think that if/when Matthews goes back to full healthy seasons, he will no doubt be the better player again. Health is the only thing that stands in his way right now from becoming a top 5 players in the game today.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Matthews is the only answer.

Even if you think they're on the same talent level, position and goal scoring always wins out.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Mathews is not our best player. Marner is, he plays on the PK and the PP, plays on the teams match up line. He creates offence for his line mates. Hyman had his best season playing with Marner even in less games. JT had his best season playing with Marner.

Like other historic wingers who drive offense he is our best player. You build around you best most important player not trade him.

Just because you keep saying Marner is better, doesn't actually make it so. You seem to be ignoring that Marner had his best season playing next to an elite level centre who has proven that he makes players around him better. For some strange reason, you've given Tavares zero credit for getting Marner to score 28 more points this season. You mention how Tavares had a career year, yet he only scored 2 more points than his previous best season. His goals increased by 9, but there's never been an indication that he couldn't have done that without Marner. Also, Hyman scored 9 of his 21 goals on an empty net lol that hardly proves that Marner is a great play maker , it just proves he inflated his numbers with empty net goals

And for the record, no I'm not saying Marner isn't a great player nor am I crapping on his abilities. I'm just merely pointing out that Tavares deserves way more credit than you and Marner's other fans are giving him credit. Marner wouldn't have made this big leap without Tavares and that's a fact.

 

[thewave]

Matthews is the only answer.

Even if you think they're on the same talent level, position and goal scoring always wins out.

He really isn't. If Marner signs for 8.5m or so, you can run Matthews for 3 years then probably move on. He gives off the impression he is going to leave to highest bidder anyways. I have more faith in Nylander staying here than Matthews and the same goes for Mitch. If Marner wants the 10.5m or whatever, he's a goner.

 

[Stephen]

He really isn't. If Marner signs for 8.5m or so, you can run Matthews for 3 years then probably move on. He gives off the impression he is going to leave to highest bidder anyways. I have more faith in Nylander staying here than Matthews and the same goes for Mitch. If Marner wants the 10.5m or whatever, he's a goner.

How does that make sense when contract dollar amounts will keep going up? In 5 years time an $11.6 million could be the equivalent of a $8 million contract now.